LinuxQuestions.org
Support LQ: Use code LQ3 and save $3 on Domain Registration
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 12-04-2008, 03:44 PM   #1
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Rep: Reputation: 15
MIDI?


Has anyone gotten rosegarden to work?
 
Old 12-04-2008, 04:21 PM   #2
dickgregory
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Distribution: Arch, PCLinuxOS, Mint
Posts: 257

Rep: Reputation: 34
Are you trying to use Rosegarden for what you might use Cakewalk for on Windows?

Rosegarden has a lot of features that need to be managed, so it will probably not work out of the box like Cakewalk. Regardless of how you use it, if you want to hear any output you will probably need to have Jack running. Also, RG does not have any built in sound synthesis, so you will need a synthesizer, either hardware or software.

I use qsynth as a soft synthesizer with a GM soundfont I downloaded. I let Jack route the midi from RG into qsynth which produces the sound. Then I route the sound from qsynth into the system speakers. All three major components need some setup, but once you do it it remembers from one session to the next. I don't remember all of the setup details off the top of my head. I start Jack first, then qsynth, then Rosegarden.

Mike McIntyre has written the de facto official tutorial, and that is where I always went when I got stuck with something. You can find it at http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/tutor...chapter-0.html

Hope this helps to at least get you started.
 
Old 12-04-2008, 05:47 PM   #3
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickgregory View Post
Are you trying to use Rosegarden for what you might use Cakewalk for on Windows?

Rosegarden has a lot of features that need to be managed, so it will probably not work out of the box like Cakewalk. Regardless of how you use it, if you want to hear any output you will probably need to have Jack running. Also, RG does not have any built in sound synthesis, so you will need a synthesizer, either hardware or software.

I use qsynth as a soft synthesizer with a GM soundfont I downloaded. I let Jack route the midi from RG into qsynth which produces the sound. Then I route the sound from qsynth into the system speakers. All three major components need some setup, but once you do it it remembers from one session to the next. I don't remember all of the setup details off the top of my head. I start Jack first, then qsynth, then Rosegarden.

Mike McIntyre has written the de facto official tutorial, and that is where I always went when I got stuck with something. You can find it at http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/tutor...chapter-0.html

Hope this helps to at least get you started.
Yes, I have used a demo of cakewalk that is Windows 3.11 and that is what I have used on bygone systems but frankly I'm gun shy.

I used to be a programmer for windows (ASP) but I'm too behind for Linux; and I've gotten a laptop that isn't worth anything; but I got the recent itch to compose since I use to be a music major. So I downloaded it and it screwed up my sound because I didn't realize that it was KDE software because I was using Gnome. So I wiped my machine and installed it in KDE and installed "Jack Audio Server" (I think) and used Jack Rack then installed twig and Lilypond. Well after that the Audio Server crashes on start up and I have read that tutorial but it mentioned terminal and I instantly freeze when I hear that because no matter what I plug in it is automatically rejected.

I'm really in a catch '22 because the last OS I have used was Windows 2000 (besides Fedora) but I don't know if I installed Rosegarden right. I was just looking to see if I'm just an idiot or if my sound card just isn't MIDI compatible since I'm gun shy to troubleshoot this because I don't want to make a new system and still have it not work.

So, did I follow the right troubleshooting procedure?

Here is my soundcard:

Sound Driver: 3.8.1a-980706 (ALSA v1.0.16 emulation code)
Kernel: Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.26.6-49.fc8 #1 SMP fri Oct 17 15:59:36 EDT 2008 i686
Config options: 0

Installed drivers:
Type 10: ALSA emulation

card config:
HDA Intel at 0xfebfc000 irq 21

Audio Devices:
0: STAC92xx Analog (DUPLEX)

Synth Devices: NOT ENABLED IN CONFIG

Midi Devices: NOT ENABLED IN CONFIG

Timers:
31: system timer

Mixers:
0: Sigmatel STAC9228




All I want to do is just review music theory and write music...Thats all...

Last edited by BeerSlinger; 12-04-2008 at 08:52 PM.
 
Old 12-05-2008, 08:50 AM   #4
dickgregory
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Distribution: Arch, PCLinuxOS, Mint
Posts: 257

Rep: Reputation: 34
It sounds like you have taken a thoughtful approach to solving your problem, except for the gun shy part. Sometimes you need to try things that you don't understand to get the big picture. Experimentation is important to the learning process, especially when documentation is not adequate. Think about what "Mike the Trucker" had to go through to learn all of this and write it down when there was virtually nothing to go on.

I think that I went through 3 installations of Rosegarden before I got it to work reliably. I probably did about 6 trips through the tutorial. It isn't that the program sucks. It's a great program, but quite complex with lots of features. It's like stepping out of a Cessna into the cockpit of a 747.

I suspect that your problem is not with RG itself, or with your hardware, but with the configurations of your other software that supports sound. I would suggest that you start from a clean install and build up your foundation and test it one piece at a time before you try to connect your whole studio together.

Start by making sure that Alsa is working and producing sound. Then try running a program like Hydrogen. I think it works pretty much out of the box and can play directly to alsa. Then fire up qjackctl and configure it. I usually run my sound at CD quality which is 44.1K. Then try to run Hydrogen though Jack. When you get tired of hearing nothing but drums, fire up qsynth and load a soundfont. Unfortunately, most distros do not include any soundfonts because of licensing issues. You can find free downloads with google. Qsynth should automatically find jack if jack is running, and connect itself to it. As input to qsynth, you will need something that can generate midi signals. You can us a midi player to play a .mid file, or there is a program (I don't remember its name) that turns your pc keyboard into a crude midi keyboard.

During all of this, you might need to play around with your signal routing in the patchbay on qjackctl. You can connect together any input and output that makes sense, or disconnect them. If a program doesn't show in the patchbay, it may need to be configured to use jack. Once you bring Rosegarden into the mix, it uses the exact same concepts, but since it has so many choices on what to do with its instruments, they have to be told to go to jack. Once you have all of your peripheral sound network operating, McIntyre's tutorial should help get you producing sound.

I have had mixed success with Lilypond. I think that the versions of Rosegarden and Lilypond need to be carefully matched because I get lots of version errors, although I usually do get usable output.

Good luck and keep trying. It's not really a piece of cake(walk), but it's not rocket science either. Once you do get things working, it will make more sense than it does now. I'm not an expert by any means, especially when it comes to hardware devices and such. But I will help in any way that I can.

If you haven't committed yet to a distribution, you might try one of them that specializes in sound studios. They probably have user forums that are manned by experts. 64Studio and Ubuntu Studio come to mind. You can get to their websites through distrowatch.com.
 
Old 12-05-2008, 10:26 AM   #5
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickgregory View Post
It sounds like you have taken a thoughtful approach to solving your problem, except for the gun shy part. Sometimes you need to try things that you don't understand to get the big picture. Experimentation is important to the learning process, especially when documentation is not adequate. Think about what "Mike the Trucker" had to go through to learn all of this and write it down when there was virtually nothing to go on.

I think that I went through 3 installations of Rosegarden before I got it to work reliably. I probably did about 6 trips through the tutorial. It isn't that the program sucks. It's a great program, but quite complex with lots of features. It's like stepping out of a Cessna into the cockpit of a 747.

I suspect that your problem is not with RG itself, or with your hardware, but with the configurations of your other software that supports sound. I would suggest that you start from a clean install and build up your foundation and test it one piece at a time before you try to connect your whole studio together.

Start by making sure that Alsa is working and producing sound. Then try running a program like Hydrogen. I think it works pretty much out of the box and can play directly to alsa. Then fire up qjackctl and configure it. I usually run my sound at CD quality which is 44.1K. Then try to run Hydrogen though Jack. When you get tired of hearing nothing but drums, fire up qsynth and load a soundfont. Unfortunately, most distros do not include any soundfonts because of licensing issues. You can find free downloads with google. Qsynth should automatically find jack if jack is running, and connect itself to it. As input to qsynth, you will need something that can generate midi signals. You can us a midi player to play a .mid file, or there is a program (I don't remember its name) that turns your pc keyboard into a crude midi keyboard.

During all of this, you might need to play around with your signal routing in the patchbay on qjackctl. You can connect together any input and output that makes sense, or disconnect them. If a program doesn't show in the patchbay, it may need to be configured to use jack. Once you bring Rosegarden into the mix, it uses the exact same concepts, but since it has so many choices on what to do with its instruments, they have to be told to go to jack. Once you have all of your peripheral sound network operating, McIntyre's tutorial should help get you producing sound.

I have had mixed success with Lilypond. I think that the versions of Rosegarden and Lilypond need to be carefully matched because I get lots of version errors, although I usually do get usable output.

Good luck and keep trying. It's not really a piece of cake(walk), but it's not rocket science either. Once you do get things working, it will make more sense than it does now. I'm not an expert by any means, especially when it comes to hardware devices and such. But I will help in any way that I can.

If you haven't committed yet to a distribution, you might try one of them that specializes in sound studios. They probably have user forums that are manned by experts. 64Studio and Ubuntu Studio come to mind. You can get to their websites through distrowatch.com.
and I do this in what? KDE or Gnome? after this little experience I'm through cross platforming....

what made me gun shy is Dell, after that little experience I almost gave up computers all together because I wanted a programming a gaming machine and what Dell sent was a certified tird.

That explains my shell shock, I think what it is would be that what I need to be on a desktop and not a laptop and I might get somewhere. Because I have found out how touchy laptop hardware can be.

I just wanted to see if anyone else had success because it looked so much more complex and seemed to hold so much more promise then cakewalk. Plus that I'm pretty much stuck on redhat and I was just looking for something compatible to it.

FC8 to be exact because I would have never been able to install it without "ADD/Remove Programs" which to my chagrin has been eliminated from 9. That's why I thought I installed Jack was because I just searched for anything that looked like jack.
 
Old 12-05-2008, 10:32 AM   #6
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
A MIDI file won't play in KMID........should have been a hint.....huh....
 
Old 12-05-2008, 10:49 AM   #7
ErV
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 1,202
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerSlinger View Post
Has anyone gotten rosegarden to work?
Yes, I used it during last year several times. Didn't quite like it, though, and decided to use lilypond instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerSlinger View Post
I was just looking to see if I'm just an idiot or if my sound card just isn't MIDI compatible since I'm gun shy to troubleshoot this because I don't want to make a new system and still have it not work.
You can have midi without midi-compatible soundcard (if card is new and built-in, then chances are high that it has no MIDI capabilities, even if it supports 6channel sound). For that you'll have to install Timidity++ (for example 2.13.0), configure it, and (if you want better sound) instal sound patches for it (like "freepats" or "eawpats"). Then you'll need to start Timidity in daemon mode, for example on my system it is done this way (on the system startup):
Code:
/usr/local/bin/timidity  -iA -B2,8 -Os 2>&1 > /var/log/timidity &
After that timidity should be available as alsa midi output device, and you'll be able to configure rosegarden to use it.

I can't provide any more details on that, because I configured that stuff 12 months ago, and don't remember many details now. But timidity manual should explain most of things.
 
Old 12-05-2008, 01:32 PM   #8
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post
You can have midi without midi-compatible soundcard (if card is new and built-in, then chances are high that it has no MIDI capabilities, even if it supports 6channel sound).
I've noticed that this is a real problem, I use to have a few boards with onboard sound and I had a sound blaster as secondary. It really wasn't a problem in windows but was a real problem in Linux.

Really Timidity++ is too simple because the most important thing is composition. I was looking to write for Organ and since I haven't played one in 10 years and I was just a beginner switching instruments, I was looking for someone to play it for me.

Last edited by BeerSlinger; 12-05-2008 at 03:05 PM.
 
Old 12-05-2008, 10:18 PM   #9
ErV
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Russia
Distribution: Slackware 12.2
Posts: 1,202
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerSlinger View Post
Really Timidity++ is too simple because the most important thing is composition.
I Didn't understand this part. Timidity has good quality synthizer which is comparable with default windows synth - IF you install sound patches. So you should be able to play midi in realtime on computer, including Organ. As I said already there are freepats and eawpats, which can be found with google.

However, if you want to play, I'd recommend to use device with hardware midi (I'd get synthizer for playing/recording). Software midi players sound nice, but when you want real-time performance, there will be variable lag between time when you press key and when sound will start. The size maximum possible lag will be equivalent to the size of sound buffer used by program. Some people can adapt to that problem, some can't. Lag might be decreased to some extend, but then sound will start crackling, so you'll still have lags at least up to 0.01..0.02 seconds (this is a lot, actually) or more.

Another option is to use sound tracker software. You might get better sounds, but you won't have standard musical notation.


I was looking to write for Organ and since I haven't played one in 10 years and I was just a beginner switching instruments, I was looking for someone to play it for me.[/QUOTE]
 
Old 12-05-2008, 10:40 PM   #10
dickgregory
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Distribution: Arch, PCLinuxOS, Mint
Posts: 257

Rep: Reputation: 34
I haven't used Timidity++, but it serves the same basic function as qsynth for my purposes. You can use it to physically produce the sound from the midi signals from Rosegarden. I think that the simplest way to connect is via jack.

Rosegarden has several ways to enter notes while you compose, and you can tweak to your hearts content to correct errors and timing. You can also make adjustments directed toward a final printed output via Lilypond. RG can export to Lilypond so you don't have to enter the .ly file manually. You can also see your composition in musical notation onscreen as you work.

It shouldn't make a difference whether you use KDE or GNOME. Also, FC8 is a quite reasonable choice for a distro, but keep in mind that FC has a very short supported lifespan per release.
 
Old 12-06-2008, 01:20 PM   #11
BeerSlinger
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan, US
Distribution: Not coverted yet
Posts: 70

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Well, you remember that old joke from the 90's, "What I really want to do is direct." That applies to me except what I really wanted to do is compose. Organ, string, voice and eventually other instruments. I told the organist at my church that I turned the radio off when I became a computer major but I did compose 2 pieces. The first was a minor key theme and variation of a Bachian Pachebel. The second was a very brutish piece that used the same idea but was constructed like a chorale and they were both done in cakewalk.

I seem to be really weird, I pick romantic composers for the harmony and baroque composers for the melody and it comes out extremely dark. I was just picking up an old dream that never went anywhere.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
midi keyboard, how to make sound?midi keyboard, how to produce sounds? Blyiss Linux - Software 10 03-24-2007 09:53 PM
Midi...(Yes, another one) cwwilson721 Slackware 4 01-02-2006 05:38 AM
MIDI playback through midi keyboad. akihandyman Linux - Newbie 5 05-25-2005 02:37 AM
How to play MIDI files: needed a MIDI mapper? vharishankar Linux - General 3 12-30-2004 01:12 AM
Set up midi device in suse 9.1 w/ AC'97 midi controller Guitarist88 Linux - Hardware 1 07-06-2004 04:09 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration