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Old 01-04-2003, 10:07 PM   #1
Jane Delawney
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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Distribution: Mandy 9.1, Knoppix :)
Posts: 146

Rep: Reputation: 15
mandy 9.0 noob qs


Hi guys

(restrains self from performing i am not worthy routine; bHi guys.
ut I feel extremely stupid here I have to say)

I installed Mandrake 9.0 on my Windoze ME machine last week, currently happily dual booting w LILO - no problems, no crashes, no angst save what I'm about to describe.

I'm using KDE mostly at the moment 'cos it seems most friendly to newbs and have successfully set stuff up to access internet and mail facilities - absolutely no problem here, even tho' my system has a winmodem I had an old external modem handy, and I'm actually getting *faster* connection speeds with the old external than I did in windoze with the spiffy new internal jobbie! I'm well impressed by that I can tell you). Also 'ported my windoze StarOffice files on hda6 into OpenOffice.org on linux hda3 w no probs - deeply impressed with the ability of Linux to mount and read Windoze partitions tho' it will be a cold day in hell before the opposite occurs I guess

But...duh. It occurred to me after a few days that the ONLY reason I'd booted into windoze for several days was to allow SETI to crunch some nos., 'cos I'd felt intimidated by the 'command line version' description of the UNIX download at the SETI site.

So I bit the bullet and downloaded it. Successfully - it's right there in the home/(myusername)/downloads directory I created for the occasion (note this isn't a root directory, it's set up under my other user login and I've avoided using root as much as poss as recommended). It's a tar file; I know vaguely what to do to untar and install such; so I tried it

(more detail`s required I'm sure: I typed 'tar xvf setiathome-3.03.i386-pc-linux-gnu-gnulibc2.1.tar in the console at my username prompt; this may not be the correct filename but being such a noob, I wasn't sure what was the 'filename' and what wasn't...:0)

unfortunately with no success - both the console and the GUI report that there's no such file on the system.

It's there; or at least, there's a nice pretty icon for it in the appropriate directory in Konqueror, it even has the exact same filename appended! but clicking on it produces another error message to the effect that the system can't find the file.

Well...in case you're starting to think I've posted this to the wrong forum, this plea for help isn't specifically about SETI. It's regarding the procedure for installing ANY 3rd party software (I have no problem installing any of the packages provided on Mandy's CDs post OS install - already done that, but all that entails is a windoze-ish point and click and a very small amount of nous regarding where to find stuff).

So, generally: How does one go about installing a (downloaded, 3rd party, whatever) software package on a Linux box? On one which as I gather from reading the forums for a few weeks has given me almost no trouble compared to some?

and yeah, I have RTFM and investigated man and info pages. Trouble is, that even the most basic of these read like greek or hebrew to me (to clarify: I actually do have a basic knowledge of both these languages, so what I mean by this is that they APPEAR to tell me what to do, just like I ALMOST understand both gk. and heb., but on closer investigation I find i don't understand them at all )

A bit of background might be helpful: I've been a windoze end user for years and years, starting with 3.11 and up to ME. I have long mistrusted M$ and it's pretty much given that WinXP really does spy on your system and report back to CONTROL, so I've vowed I'll never use it. However in a while M$ will cease to support earlier OSs and it'll be next to impossible to run a windoze box without using XP or its successors...which I'll never do...so the alternative was clear.

I went for Mandy 9.0 as probably the best distro for someone who really didn't know what they were doing past the windoze point and click; but I don't, heaven forbid, want to STAY at that level. I want to learn How To Do Stuff in Linux, so that, hopefully, one day I'll reach the point where I'll never need windoze again. But unless I can successfully install 3rd party software - whether from the command line, or via a GUI interface, I don't care - I'll never be able to do this. I don't want to end up as dependent on a distributor (Mandrake, RedHat, or whoever...even debian ) as I was on M$.

Where do I go? what can I read to help me clarify the situation? I've tried online help files, man pages, info pages, Mandrake Online, linux.org and various other places, and haven't gotten past the greek/hebrew stage as yet.

I've always used GUIs, also. If you are going to help me with command line stuff, I really do need it spelled out at this stage: if you tell me to 'make install' I'm not going to know what you mean, and I won't be able to do it. I need you to tell me EXACTLY what to type at the command prompt, and preferably what each component means. I realise this is very basic, and that it means I'm far more stupid than the average newb around here (most of whom seem to be programmers at the least...I'm a theologian :0...) but it's the case. Sorry 'bout that.

System Info:

ASUS A7A266 motherboard with ALiMaGiK 1 chipset
AMD Athlon 1.4 Ghz. processor
Award Medallion BIOS 6.0
Creative SoundBlaster Live! series sound card
nVidia GeForce 2.0 video card
CD-RW and DVD drives (MTI316B BDV212B/TEAC CD-W512EB)
40GB HDD partitioned as follows: hda1 winME, hda2 linux boot/hda3 mandrake linux (I'm making an assumption here, I created the linux partition immediately after the WinME partition - hda1/drive C: in winspeak - but it appears as hda3 on my system, so I assume there's a boot partition interposed in there), hda4 linux swap hda5 windoze apps hda6 windoze data hda7 windoze backup

Originally shipped with WinME preinstalled on an unpartitioned 40Gb Hdd, and I have only an OEM recovery disk, not a full copy of WinME, though I do have a legal full copy of Win98SE lying around the place in case of need

Partitioning done with Partition Magic 6.0 and 8.0
(which I recommend - the rescue disks saved my bacon big time, a few months back).

Sorry about the length of this post. I will be briefer when/if replies enable me to be more focussed on the assorted issues herein.

Thanks in advance,

Jane
 
Old 01-04-2003, 11:18 PM   #2
rshaw
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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Perry, Iowa
Distribution: Mepis , Debian
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Rep: Reputation: 45
hi jane,
if it's a <filename>.tar.gz than you need to add a 'z' to your -xvf.
from within kde you would normally just right click on the file and choose 'open with ark' or if it's an rpm just left click and kpackage should start. what trips up a lot of new kde users, is that you can left click on a tarball and konqueror will show you the contents, but you haven't actualy done anything to the file, it's still compressed. if it's giving you an error message, it may be a corrupted file and needs to be re-downloaded. you can check most files by typing md5sum<filename> and comparing it to the md5's provided by the site you dl'ed from. its a bunch of letters and numbers that if it matches what the site says it should be, than the file is intact. to extract a tarball you would type tar -xzvf <filename.tar.gz> the 'x' stands for 'extract', the 'z' filters it though 'gzip'(a file compression system) the 'v' is for 'verbose' (print to the screen what its doing) . once it's extracted there is normally a readme or install text file with more info on how to install it. normally you /cd into the directory and type ./configure( it looks around your filesystem making sure that you have things installed that it needs, and writes this info to the 'make file'. the next command is 'make', it takes the source code and builds the files that are going to be installed, than the next command is 'make install'. you need to be the root user to run this because it will need to write to directories that normal users can't, just type su<enter>, it will prompt for root password than type 'make install'. thats the 'usual' way, check the readme/install to make sure. rpm's are installed with the rpm command 'rpm -ivh <filename.rpm> (i for install, v for verbose, h for hashmarks (prints '#'s on screen to indicate it's progress) you could also use -Uvh, that will update a package thats already installed, or -Fvh that will 'freshen' files( it will upgrade the package, only if it already exists, good for doing multiple rpms at the same time with the command rpm -Fvh *.rpm) the * is the wildcard, just like win/dos. that was probably more info than you wanted, sorry.
 
Old 01-04-2003, 11:40 PM   #3
DavidPhillips
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jun 2001
Location: South Alabama
Distribution: Fedora / RedHat / SuSE
Posts: 7,163

Rep: Reputation: 58
first we need to know where we download something and what it is, once that's accomplished it's pretty easy. well almost sometimes

ok let's download setiathome-3.03.i386-pc-linux-gnu-gnulibc2.1.tar to /home/username/Documents

now lets go to where the file is
Code:
cd ~/Documents
untar the file we downloaded
Code:
tar xvf seti*
change to the folder in the tar file
Code:
cd seti*
now let's read the README files
Code:
cat README
cat README.xsetiathome
ok we read the instructions, lets put it where we can run it

become root
Code:
su
make a folder for setiathome
Code:
mkdir /etc/setiathome
move the files there
Code:
mv * /etc/setiathome
run this to get in root environment
Code:
su -
create a file "rc.setiathome" in /etc/rc.d
Code:
#!/bin/sh
# /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome
while true
      do
        cd /etc/setiathome
        ./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null
        sleep 21600             # give it a few hours to clear up
      done
set the file permissions
Code:
chmod 755 /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome
setup the file to run on boot from rc.local
Code:
echo "/etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome -graphical &" >> /etc/rc.d/rc.local
set the ownership of the files
Code:
chown -R root.root /etc/setiathome
now you should put xsetiathome in /usr/local/bin so users can run it if you want to

Code:
mv /etc/setiathome/xsetiathome /usr/local/bin


Last edited by DavidPhillips; 01-04-2003 at 11:50 PM.
 
Old 01-05-2003, 06:25 PM   #4
Jane Delawney
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Distribution: Mandy 9.1, Knoppix :)
Posts: 146

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Just wanted to say thanks for those who took the time and trouble to respond - I think I understand you! There are several things I can try here and I will do so - and let you know how i get on - but it won't be tonight since I have to be up at 6am
You're very kind, and thanks for patience.

Jane

PS. I'm having the exact same problem with accessing the CD-ROM drives on my system that another user has described in another thread. Plenty of suggestions there too. One of the great things about this forum is that one discovers one is not alone. Like so many others, my main aim is not to become a wizard, but simply to dump M$'s stuff asap without hosing my system too often (One of the reasons I'm a tad nervous about being root, but I'm sure I'll get used to it )
You guys do a great job. Thanks.
 
Old 01-05-2003, 08:34 PM   #5
DavidPhillips
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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: South Alabama
Distribution: Fedora / RedHat / SuSE
Posts: 7,163

Rep: Reputation: 58
Your welcome Jane
 
Old 01-09-2003, 09:34 PM   #6
Jane Delawney
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Distribution: Mandy 9.1, Knoppix :)
Posts: 146

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Hello David, and others who tried to help! I'm very grateful for your time & trouble and now find I'm too stupid to make best use of it (I think anyway...)

David, I read your post and checked what I'd actually done to the file, and realised that my mistake was that I'd downloaded it, untarred it, but not actually installed it! so not surprising nothing happened when I tried to run it :0

Detailed comments follow:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidPhillips
[B]first we need to know where we download something and what it is, once that's accomplished it's pretty easy. well almost sometimes

ok let's download setiathome-3.03.i386-pc-linux-gnu-gnulibc2.1.tar to /home/username/Documents

Did that; to home/username/downloads, but it comes to the same thing.

now lets go to where the file is
Code:
cd ~/Documents
untar the file we downloaded
Code:
tar xvf seti*
Did that also. More or less by accident . And yes, it is a tar file, not a tar.gz

change to the folder in the tar file
Code:
cd seti*
Ok, didn't get that far; but with the GUI I was using, I was able to open both READMEs by clicking on them. After reading your advice, I went back and did what you suggest in bash, and it worked fine. I see no specific installation instructions in the readmes but I guess the users are generally not as klutzy as I am.

now let's read the README files
Code:
cat README
cat README.xsetiathome
ok we read the instructions, lets put it where we can run it

become root
Code:
su
make a folder for setiathome
Code:
mkdir /etc/setiathome
had no problem with this step. There's a nice new directory called setiathome in root's area.

move the files there
Code:
mv * /etc/setiathome
Again, this worked fine.

run this to get in root environment
Code:
su -
no problem.

create a file "rc.setiathome" in /etc/rc.d
Code:
#!/bin/sh
# /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome
while true
      do
        cd /etc/setiathome
        ./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null
        sleep 21600             # give it a few hours to clear up
      done
Now, this is where I got into trouble. This tiny little piece of code causes me to doubt I understand anything.

Please forgive any gross stupidity in the following; but the last time I did anything resembling programming was in 1985 and it used the BBC BASIC language :0 so I'm not exactly familiar with what to expect here.

I entered the first line exactly as you presented it, assuming that the hash was a character to be typed, and doesn't represent the root prompt (since only two lines show it, and the rest don't). AFAIK the hash in this circumstance usually means the same as 'REM' in DOS; it's a description of the process that's being written rather than part of the code as such.

(there's another bit later: '# give it a few hours to clear up' which self evidently is a comment, rather than part of the code).

I entered the line, and then pressed return. If this wasn't what I was supposed to do - well, my ignorance here. I immediately got the error message, !/bin/sh event not found.
I checked my input for typoes including case and spaces; no problem.
I then had two choices: give up, or ignore the error message and input the next line. I chose to do the latter.
# /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome

produced the error message, 'not a directory'.

At that point, I gave up.
Am I wrong to press return at the end of each of these lines? If I should do something else, what is it? Or have I simply misunderstood everything (if so, apologies). And also, in the following lines of code:

Code:
#!/bin/sh
# /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome
while true
      do
        cd /etc/setiathome
        ./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null
        sleep 21600             # give it a few hours to clear up
      done
there seem to be very specific gaps and indents in the lines; however I do not know how these are generated - tabs? spaces? nor how significant the exact spacing might be (very, I suspect) nor whether return should be pressed at the end of each line, or whether one should do something else and only press return once the code is complete.

If I can get this bit to work, I'm sure I can manage the rest

I'm sorry to be such a complete and utter dumb@$$, but my objective is to learn, and the only way I have ever been able to learn anything in my life is by getting my hands dirty and doing it myself - sometimes with a little help from my friends It seems that I have chosen a most untypical tarball to start with! - no sign of a configure utility anywhere in there, though the board's glossary suggests that the configure/make/make install commands should work with most untarred packages :0 - and I am starting to believe that if I can get this to work I need not worry about much else. Except that Mandrake killed my cdroms...but that's another thread

Cheers

Jane
 
Old 01-09-2003, 10:18 PM   #7
DavidPhillips
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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: South Alabama
Distribution: Fedora / RedHat / SuSE
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Your almost there,

The code is the contents of a file that you will need to create

once this file is created it can be executed ( #!/bin/sh ) specifies which shell to use, sh in this case, which is bash

the second line is just a comment to show the file and location, this is just a common thing to do with shell scripts




Code:
while true  (this makes an infinate loop)
this part runs once every time the program loops
Code:
     do
        cd /etc/setiathome
        ./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null
        sleep 21600             # give it a few hours to clear up
      done
the code inside of do and done is the commands that are actually executed each time the script loops

the sleep command is recommended by setiathome, mainly to decrease traffic on their site. It just makes it wait the given number of seconds.


this is just to get to the right folder, because files are created there when it runs
cd /etc/setiathome

this is running the program sending output to /dev/null which just keeps it off the screen while it's running

./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null



the code is formated that way just to make it easy to follow, not required

Last edited by DavidPhillips; 01-09-2003 at 10:20 PM.
 
Old 01-15-2003, 11:59 PM   #8
Jane Delawney
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Distribution: Mandy 9.1, Knoppix :)
Posts: 146

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Hello again. You probably thought I'd gone away - unfortunately not :P
Well I tried it again - exactly as presented. And it appeared to work - no error messages this time. After typing 'done' I pressed return and was back at the root prompt #
However...there's no sign of the program on my system. And there's no sign of a setiathome folder in /etc/rc.d or in /usr/local/bin
I'm sure I've missed something obvious. And I think I may owe you an apology - I didn't intend to turn this into a thread on setiathome, but it's really bugging me. Do I need to start a new thread under software, rather than continuing with this one?

Thanks

Jane
 
Old 01-16-2003, 12:55 AM   #9
DavidPhillips
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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: South Alabama
Distribution: Fedora / RedHat / SuSE
Posts: 7,163

Rep: Reputation: 58
no problem,


what you will need to do is open an editor of some kind. And put the code in a file. You will be creating a new file and the code will be the contents of the new file.

then you make the file executable by running this command on it

chmod 755 newfilename
 
Old 01-17-2003, 07:25 PM   #10
Jane Delawney
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Distribution: Mandy 9.1, Knoppix :)
Posts: 146

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
Feeling dumber with every post

So tell me if I've got this right.

First, do what you said, up to the point where I enter su - to get into root environment.

Then open emacs or some other txt editor, write the code, save it as 'etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome', exit emacs (or whichever), then chown (using correct filename)...and so forth. And *then* cd to usr/local/bin and attempt to run the program.

Sorry 'n' all; it's just that I've never done much coding, nor to worked at the command line more than occasionally. One gets like that using a certain other OS family. But I'm very well motivated, and don't mind being dumb in public to get it right. M$ have had the last of my money

Cheers and many thanks
 
Old 01-18-2003, 12:51 PM   #11
DavidPhillips
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jun 2001
Location: South Alabama
Distribution: Fedora / RedHat / SuSE
Posts: 7,163

Rep: Reputation: 58
that's right. I going back to the original post here, this is the file I'm refering to.

Quote:
create a file "rc.setiathome" in /etc/rc.d

Code:
#!/bin/sh
# /etc/rc.d/rc.setiathome
while true
      do
        cd /etc/setiathome
        ./setiathome -graphics 1> /dev/null 2> /dev/null
        sleep 21600             # give it a few hours to clear up
      done
 
  


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