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Old 03-31-2006, 11:12 PM   #61
foo_bar_foo
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stupid to feed the troll -- yes it is ! proof i'm a sucker for an argment i guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthPooh
If in fact, I have to use a linux distro that doesn't work the way I want.
yea we all do that. thats why its open source -- so we can hack new programs or distros that DO do what we want and then we make it available to everyone else. THATS THE WAY IT WORKS ! thats not the way mac works. mac is a fixed thing delivered to you with the glowing corporate message about how you already love it and it makes you smarter than "those" people that choose "that".

what you are really saying is you don't like it the way WE make it work.
thats fine. this is why its so fluid. we are not satisfied with the way we make it work either. BUT: we will never make it some "complete GUI desktop"
simply because the equation is way too complex and scalable and diverse for that. it just can't be done. so unless you do it for your specific setup it can't be had. BUT: you have the right and the code and you are encouraged to hack away.

beyond that we have no earthly idea how macs work at all.
the notion that mac OSX is somehow related to Linux/Unix and therefore within our scope of our experiences if a false notion put forward by advertisers.

To us:
macintosh is something ancient, toylike and extreemly obscure that is so burdened down with bizarre all encompassing GUI junk it is totally unusable and even if you could figure it out the wrist pain from all the mouse moving would put you in the hospital.
on top of that there seems to be these "mac people" who love it like its a part of their ego or religion and its scarry and go on and on about 22 years this and that a bit like brainwashed corporate zombies who have brand recognition confused with intelligence.
are those little plastic floppies and no hard drive and "prodos" really a part of your current set of work skills ?
 
Old 04-01-2006, 12:40 AM   #62
sumguy231
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^Let's not start an Anti-Mac flamewar, foo_bar_foo.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 02:53 AM   #63
nicdaug
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Ok first I would like to say foo bar foo started off with a very valid point. The only way you are going to get linux to work the way you want it to is to sit and set it up that way. "99.99999999% of the people who will read this believe that its not possible to have linux behave mac-like. but I'm not going to give up on the possibility that someone out there has a better solution than what I've been presented so far."(sorry I don't know how to do the quote box) If you do not not have the knowledge or capability, someone does, I do not. But ask NICELY and you MAY receive. IMO the problem you truly face is that there is no comparison between windows or mac or linux. Each of these OS' are what they are, nothing more nothing less. The beauty of linux is that you can make it do almost anything you want. If you want it to run like windows, you can. If want it run like mac, you can. Or for that matter if you want to make an OS that is completely new and revolutionary you can. You merely have to invest your time. My best advice to you is to not worry so much about productivity. If you explain to your employer that your back ground is with the mac os and that it will take you some time to adjust to linux. I am sure that they will understand. And then in your free time work on making linux the OS you want it to be.

Oh and to steal this from another post(modified slightly). Sorry PenguinPwrdBox, I just think this is sound advice.
Remember that this is not mac It doesn't work anything like mac. Forget all you know about an OS. Learn anew.

Last edited by nicdaug; 04-01-2006 at 03:08 AM.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 08:02 AM   #64
demented_are_go
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The problem is that you have to be willing to work at it, Darthpooh through everything he's posted here, has given everyone plenty of reasons to think that he thinks his way of thinking is superior. I've reread most of the posts and I cannot come up with anything else. Right off my first feeling was, oh boy here's a mac user who has to use linux, but really doesn't want to. Then we got into the unrealistic expectations. Linux, in lots of ways, is really no different than a car, when you drive a honda civic, if you buy a mazda, you'll have to spend some time getting used to where the buttons and controls are on the dashboard. Also if you want your car customized to your needs, you'll likely have to look under the hood.

If he had came here saying, i've been using a mac for x years, soon i'll be running linux, what can I do to make the transition easier? or even if he had asked how to make the transition more seamless by bringing some of the mac features to his chosen distro, then I think he'd have received better feedback.

I've been using linux for almost 10 years, I -know- for a fact that you cannot just install linux and do everything you do under windows or whatever other os you run without taking the time to learn and adapt. You have to open your mind to that, if you don't then there's no amount of suggestions here that can help you. Most people who switch to linux, switch because they want something different, something better, something that'll make their use their head, they're not looking for something that'll just be like the other OS they were running before.

As I said before, I was told there's someone where I work that has managed to run os X in vmware, maybe that's the solution for you, but to figure that out you'll have to look around, see if it's doable, we tried to help, what you take from the info you were given is your choice, asking repeatedly for irrealistic things will not make us more likely to respond.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 09:32 AM   #65
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragineez
Actually, jens said he "just plugged it in and it worked". farslayer posted a link with instructions on how to put a Mac face on KDE. But you bring up a good question. When jens said "it worked" does that mean the keyboard is merely nominally useable or does it mean that it emulates Mac-like functionality? I just assumed it was the later because... well... why else would you use a Mac keyboard?

jens...?
Well, actually I only started using it cause a (full) coffee mug fell on the other one (at night, while still working, with no other option) .
As for Mac-like functionality, most works directly as well(this actually surprised me). Only a few keys don't do the same, but this can be easily changed.

PS: obviously this will not auto-work with all distros, but I doubt it will be a problem with any of the big ones (apart from Slackware and alike).

Last edited by jens; 04-01-2006 at 10:00 AM.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 11:30 AM   #66
DarthPooh
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[QUOTE=foo_bar_foo]stupid to feed the troll -- yes it is ! proof i'm a sucker for an argment i guess.



yea we all do that. thats why its open source -- so we can hack new programs or distros that DO do what we want and then we make it available to everyone else. THATS THE WAY IT WORKS ! thats not the way mac works. mac is a fixed thing delivered to you with the glowing corporate message about how you already love it and it makes you smarter than "those" people that choose "that".

what you are really saying is you don't like it the way WE make it work.
thats fine. this is why its so fluid. we are not satisfied with the way we make it work either. BUT: we will never make it some "complete GUI desktop"
simply because the equation is way too complex and scalable and diverse for that. it just can't be done. so unless you do it for your specific setup it can't be had. BUT: you have the right and the code and you are encouraged to hack away. [/qote]

And maybe there is someone out there, who as already done that, If there is I want to find that person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foo_bar_foo
beyond that we have no earthly idea how macs work at all.
the notion that mac OSX is somehow related to Linux/Unix and therefore within our scope of our experiences if a false notion put forward by advertisers.

To us:
macintosh is something ancient, toylike and extreemly obscure that is so burdened down with bizarre all encompassing GUI junk it is totally unusable and even if you could figure it out the wrist pain from all the mouse moving would put you in the hospital.
on top of that there seems to be these "mac people" who love it like its a part of their ego or religion and its scarry and go on and on about 22 years this and that a bit like brainwashed corporate zombies who have brand recognition confused with intelligence.
are those little plastic floppies and no hard drive and "prodos" really a part of your current set of work skills ?
It's not about ego or religion; it's about habit. If I never used a computer before, and my first experience was with gnome, I probably whould be as adament to try and make a mac as much like gnome as possible. 22 years means deep ingrained nuro pathways, my fingers natrurally go to certain keys, and I out of habit click the upper right corner when I want to zoom a window (after 5 years on OS X, I still havent broken that habit, but at least it doesn't close my window, and quit my program). I believe the Dvorak keyboard is Vastly superior to the qwerty keyboard, but I have used a qwerty keyboard so long that switching would not enable me to type faster.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 02:33 PM   #67
Dragineez
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Last Piece Of The Puzzle

Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
As for Mac-like functionality, most works directly as well(this actually surprised me).
Problem solved. Get yourself a Mac USB keyboard and mouse. Install kubuntu. This is the version of ubuntu with KDE. I think you'll like ubuntu. I like all the distros I've tried, but generally have preferred the Debian based ones. I've settled on ubuntu to continue my learning process and I'm glad I did.

Obviously, select the Mac keyboard during install if not auto-selected. Follow the instructions from farslayer's link to make the interface Mac-like. Productive immediately.

I'm not saying there won't be some sort of a learning curve, but I think the others have already pointed that out.

Last edited by Dragineez; 04-01-2006 at 02:36 PM.
 
Old 04-01-2006, 02:46 PM   #68
truthfatal
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2. Keeping an application live until I explicitly quit, not when I close the last window.
?

3. Ordering dialog buttons so that ok is on the right and cancel is on the left.
KDE is easily customizable.

4. Being able to drag and drop between applications.
I don't think that's a problem on /any/ OS

5. "Highlight and paste" replaces highlighted text with copied or cut text.
I have no idea what you're describing.
Do you mean: Copy text -- highlight text to be replaced -- right click and paste text?
I don't think that's a problem on /any/ OS

6. Up and down arrows at both top and bottom of scrollbars
KDE is easily customizable.

7. The ability to hide all windows not belonging to the focused aplication in a single action
?

8. Any other mac behavior.
KDE is easily customizable.
 
Old 04-02-2006, 07:24 AM   #69
taliesin_l
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As far as I can see this is what it comes to: Mac OS is easy, it just works, but if you need to do anything that Mac has not provided for you are stuck (or if your boss make you use something else).

Windows is awful (although getting better in many ways) however it is the best supported OS and so you can do what ever you like (for a price).

Linux is the most customizable OS, however you need to learn how to use it. You want to look under the hood (and make it work like a Mac) you need the time and the knowledge, you have to be prepared to learn, there is no easy way (other than someone else doing it for you).

If you are not prepared to learn you are screwed, linux can work like Mac but you have to make it do so... you have to learn about linux. (it is not after all Mac OS!)

You talk about productivity, one of the great things about Linux is that it is the most productive OS (the CL makes things so fast when you know how to use it). Your short term losses in productivity now will pay off in the long run, you will be able to do things 10x as fast as on Mac OS as soon as you learn how.

You can walk 10,000 miles or you can spend some time learning how to fly.
 
Old 04-02-2006, 07:21 PM   #70
haertig
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Windows is like buying an inexpensive barebones car. It might work for you as long as you don't have terribly high expectations. But expect high maintenance costs as time goes on. There are 5 gadzillion non-OEM replacement parts for these puppies - some of them might even work! Most people start out with one of these barebones models. If this meets your needs, it's the best solution for you.

MACs are a higher grade of car. They come with more reliability and the peace of mind this brings because you can only use pre-approved parts, and cannot overextend them by making them do things they weren't originally designed to. You pay more for this benefit over the inexpensive barebones car. But if this meets your needs, it's the best solution for you.

Linux is like a free box of parts to build a Ferrari. Shop manuals are free. Tools are free. You ask for help, and three dozen Ferrari owners show up at your door to help you out. If you want to use your box of parts to build a Hummer or a VW, you can do that too. Once you start looking, you notice a lot more Ferraris, Hummers, and VWs on the road than you thought were out there. If you try to jump directly from your inexpensive barebones (or fancier showroom special) to a box of Ferrari parts, you will most likely be totally bewildered. You have to search out the shop manual and make a few friends. You have to take the time to learn things. You have to screw up and have the fortitude to figure out what you did wrong and correct it. No two Ferraris are alike, but they're similar enough that you can help work on your friends even if theirs is not exactly like yours. Ferrari owners tend to look down their noses at the barebones owners. But they sometimes feel a pang of guilt when they remember back to their early days with that box of parts, and how they almost pissed themselves with joy when they finally figured out how to attach the damn steering wheel. Ferrari owners are passionate about their Ferraris. They try to bring Ferraris to the masses by building beginner-friendly models and giving them away for free. Some people shun these free Ferraries because they have eight speed manual racing transmissions rather than the steering column mounted auto transmission they are familiar with. ("And what's that extra pedal to the left of my brake?") Some Ferraries require constant twiddling to keep them running. Some people twiddle with their Ferraris just because they can, and have learned how to. Twiddling often breaks Ferraris. Most Ferrari owners keep a spare barebones or two hidden in the garage, out of sight under a tarp, or relegate them to their spouses and children. Most do not to give Ferraris to their mothers, preferring instead to give a barebones and then call it totalled after the inevitable fender bender. This behavior is a mystery. But if all this meets your needs, it's the best solution for you.

OK - none of that really made any sense. But it was fun to write!
 
Old 04-02-2006, 08:07 PM   #71
sumguy231
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Heh, not another car analogy.
 
Old 04-02-2006, 09:31 PM   #72
DeusExLinux
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Seriously, though, anytime you switch operating systems, it's a rough transition. I understand that you want to continue to use the same habits you had (I was a windows user, who switched to OSX for a bit, before my way to Linux, OSX was a rough jump, because it was so different).

While remapping the keyboard is good, you can also change the control theme in many WM/DE to move the close/shade/whatnot buttons around.

You can't really keep a program live, without minimizing it. When you close the window, it closes. It does, on the other hand, keep some data in your ram or swap so it takes less time to open the program.

If you seriously can't find the gui you are looking for, I would suggest FVWM. It takes the longest to configure (and can be a pain in the butt), but when it comes down to it, it's really the only WM that you build yourself. You can basically make it work exactly like what you want, but you just have to have time and patience to do it youself. Not something I'd really recommend for the work-place (programming it), but if you have time at home, you might be able to put something together.

Other than that, You won't really find a GUI that behaves like OSX "out-of-the-box". Most Linux users come from windows (if you can't tell, they are a bit negative toward Mac users), so the GUI reflects a windows-like environment.

I have noticed some themes for Enlightenment (and e17) that are quite a bit more OSX like in how the work.

When all is said and done, if you don;t have a lot of time, it's going to take some time to adjust. It's not the answer you were looking for, but from a person who has experimented with a great many different WM and DEs, it's hard to find one that you really like, and that works best for you.
 
  


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