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Old 12-17-2009, 05:40 AM   #16
evo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
If memory serves me correctly, Ubuntu is simply a refined Debian branch of Linux. In my experience, Debian is simply unrefined Ubuntu, fewer default options, but otherwise, they're the same, in my opinion.
s/refined/bastardized :-)

Ahh, distro wars, what fun. Point taken though.

However, you'll learn much more simply by keeping away from all the gui stuff that Ubuntu encourages its users to use. Strip it back, ie using Debian.

Cheers,

Evo2.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:45 AM   #17
zhjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
Make that the second. I'd settle for getting Slackware to boot, which is a problem I've never had with any OS, windows Linux or BSD
Might be the way you are installing. I never installed slackware to USB but also experienced some problems getting slackware to boot within lilo. Also this was just to my lack of knowledge of how lilo works.
Also Grub might be more fail tolerante if you know how lilo works then your're good to go.

Just let the slackware installer handle lilo installation. This worked for me most of the time. And always remember to reinstall or update it when you change lilo.conf

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
If memory serves me correctly, Ubuntu is simply a refined Debian branch of Linux. In my experience, Debian is simply unrefined Ubuntu, fewer default options, but otherwise, they're the same, in my opinion.
Debian is the mother and ubuntu the son. So your memory serves you well.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:48 AM   #18
yanfaun
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Thanks for all the recommendations everybody.
The majority of you think that I would find Slackware or Arch to be rewarding.
Unfortunately, at installation time, one can only install LILo as the bootloader at installation time.
Since LILO cannot install to a root partiton, a floppy disk nor the MBR of a USB drive, it is useless to me. I tried to get LILO to function properly once before, even wrote a post to get help, to no avail. All of which means that Slackware & Arch are useless to me.
Someone recommended Gentoo, but I feel as though that might be over my head. Any thought anyone?
again, thanks to all respondents
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:54 AM   #19
yanfaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evo2 View Post
s/refined/bastardized :-)

Ahh, distro wars, what fun. Point taken though.

However, you'll learn much more simply by keeping away from all the gui stuff that Ubuntu encourages its users to use. Strip it back, ie using Debian.

Cheers,

Evo2.
I hope to never succumb to distro wars. Gnome is better than KDE, period!!
I am attempting to build, yet you propose that I strip. Would one not first have to know how to build a distro before one could strip a distro?
If I build or tailor the distro, what need would there be to strip it?
Not arguing or criticizing, just trying to understand. My goal is to learn the inner workings of linux by learning to setup and configure an installation that is not totally automated like Ubuntu. This is not to say that I do not love Ubuntu, for I do.
grazi

Last edited by yanfaun; 12-17-2009 at 05:55 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 05:56 AM   #20
~sHyLoCk~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
>>>
You referred to me as an OP. What is an OP? That's it! Pistol duel at high no0n mano a mano
>>>>>
I did not think that it was possible to select grub for a Slackware bootloader at the time of Slackware's installation. Are you suggesting that at the time of Slackware's installation, it is possible to somehow get into a terminal; list files in /etc and then install grub?
OP = Original poster
Yes it is possible to install grub instead of Lilo in Slackware.
How?
When it asks you to install a bootloader, default being Lilo, skip it. Finish everything else and then exit install. Don't reboot.
Browse through your DVD-Rom, and go to /extra and installpkg the grub package from there and install it in your MBR.

Regards
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:07 AM   #21
evo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
I hope to never succumb to distro wars. Gnome is better than KDE, period!!
Yeah, and cat turds smell better than dog turds ;-)

Quote:
I am attempting to build, yet you propose that I strip. Would one not first have to know how to build a distro before one could strip a distro?
Not really. I'll use the Debian example here, since that's what I know best: You can start with a base install from the Debian net-install cd, and tell the installer not to install any additiotinal packages. After the install is completed you'll just be left sitting at a console. From here you install and configure individual packages one-by-one: as you need them.

Cheers,

Evo2.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:09 AM   #22
yanfaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
Might be the way you are installing. I never installed slackware to USB but also experienced some problems getting slackware to boot within lilo. Also this was just to my lack of knowledge of how lilo works.
Also Grub might be more fail tolerante if you know how lilo works then your're good to go.

Just let the slackware installer handle lilo installation. This worked for me most of the time. And always remember to reinstall or update it when you change lilo.conf



Debian is the mother and ubuntu the son. So your memory serves you well.
Thanks
No offense, but henceforth, I decree the following:
Unless one's Slsckware install or LILO install is on a USB drive, no one is allowed to tell me to just follow the installation cd or installation DVD as it pertains to installing Slackware on sdb, which is my spare USB drive; no one is allowed to tell me to just follow the installation cd or installation DVD as it pertains to installing LILO and then getting LILO to successfully boot slackware13, which is installed on sdb. SDB is a USB drive. LILO does not install nor function on USB drives with any of the efficacy of GRUB.This I've detailed in my other thread, my first thread ever, here
I have quadrupled with grub quintuple booted with sda (an internal drive) and sdb, my usb drive. The success was achieved with GRUB and following instructions. Slackware was no different except that it ended in failure and it uses LILO.
Botton line: unless you are booting your Slackware13 from a USB drive, I need people to stop trying to tell me to follow the installation DVD instructions and all will be well. This has become incensing. I followed the installation DVD's prompts (on multiple occasions, I might add) because I was too ignorant to do anything else! No one appreciates hearing someone with no experience say "this what you need to do," especially when that something, habitually fails! Yet people keep doing it!

Last edited by yanfaun; 12-17-2009 at 06:21 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:10 AM   #23
zhjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
Not arguing or criticizing, just trying to understand. My goal is to learn the inner workings of linux by learning to setup and configure an installation that is not totally automated like Ubuntu.
I'm being a total asshole here. But if you want to learn why don't you start with the boot loader LILO. My first distro was SUSE 9.3 which lasted about 3 hours and then got replaced with slackware 9.2. It took me about two hours and 4-5 installation to get it to boot. But after that I know about LILO and how to install packages and fiddled with the partitions. (Not to mention that I installed slackware nearly every day for a week just to get a hang of the installer)
Get a grip of LILO and how it works then you can install it on every thing and as easy as grub.
And with the slackware book you'll really get the hang of the linux world and can get your self through nearly other distro I know about with ease.

Don't take this as an insult but rather as a challenge.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:16 AM   #24
~sHyLoCk~
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I use Slackware's LILO to boot to 4 different OS. Grub or Lilo doesn't matter.They are both boot loaders. Only grub is just annoying.
Quote:
"Grub Loading...Please wait....."


Btw, you can use Lilo to boot ino your USB drive I believe, did you change the boot table from /dev/hda to /dev/sda or /dev/hdb. Plug in your USB and check the output of "fdisk -l", see how your USB device is getting detected and then change the table accordingly in your lilo.conf

Regards

Last edited by ~sHyLoCk~; 12-17-2009 at 06:19 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:28 AM   #25
yanfaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
I'm being a total asshole here. But if you want to learn why don't you start with the boot loader LILO. My first distro was SUSE 9.3 which lasted about 3 hours and then got replaced with slackware 9.2. It took me about two hours and 4-5 installation to get it to boot. But after that I know about LILO and how to install packages and fiddled with the partitions. (Not to mention that I installed slackware nearly every day for a week just to get a hang of the installer)
Get a grip of LILO and how it works then you can install it on every thing and as easy as grub.
And with the slackware book you'll really get the hang of the linux world and can get your self through nearly other distro I know about with ease.

Don't take this as an insult but rather as a challenge.
You were not installing on USB. You were not installing to sdb, an external USB drive; you were installing to sda, an internal PATA or SATA. No more advice from people about Slackware13 or LILO unless you've first read this thread's original post and post #22 of this thread.

I say this so that no one's time is wasted, but watch. Someone will fail to follow these simple instructions, wasting their time and making this thread needlessly long and convoluted

Last edited by yanfaun; 12-17-2009 at 06:33 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 06:46 AM   #26
exvor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
Really?? Oh, clearly, you've not read my other post, which details the frustrations of simply trying to make LILO install and then boot slackware13 on sdb, which is a USB drive. This is a frustration that I never experienced with the ever so user-friendly, stalwart & venerable Grub and a multitude of other distributions. Grub would boot a boot. Death to LILO!

He is clearly insighting a boot loader war here. All kidding aside tho the difference with lilo and grub is that grub keeps some of its file laying around on the harddisk and wont boot unless it can find these file while lilo lives totally in the mbr and requires to be reloaded everytime you make a change. btw the move to grub2 is almost making me swich back to lilo since grub2 is going from a simple system to a overly complicated system that even the developers have commented is too damn complicated for general use. Hopefully they can shove some of the crap off to specialty stuff. I know you said gentoo was off limits so arch may be a bit too much as well. I would recommend LFS but thats going to the extreme. LFS is where you go to learn everything about what makes linux tick.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 07:14 AM   #27
zhjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanfaun View Post
You were not installing on USB. You were not installing to sdb, an external USB drive; you were installing to sda, an internal PATA or SATA. No more advice from people about Slackware13 or LILO unless you've first read this thread's original post and post #22 of this thread.

I say this so that no one's time is wasted, but watch. Someone will fail to follow these simple instructions, wasting their time and making this thread needlessly long and convoluted
As I read your original post and post 22 also post 22 after I wrote post 23 but it seems you did not read my post. I refered to slackware 9.2 which is what 3 years old or even more.
Just for the challenge to show you I'll install slackware today to my usb stick and have it boot.
 
Old 12-17-2009, 07:14 AM   #28
Wifi-Fanatux
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GRUB2 or Legacy

Unless you are using GRUB2, LILO and GRUB Legacy have pretty much the same commands for boot. LILO is a pain if you can not boot, because you can't just edit the configuration file, you have to run LILO. On the other hand, GRUB is difficult to create custom screens especially when trying to adjust the VIEWPORT box. I find LILO much easier to create an artistic menu screen.

Look at LFS (Linux from scratch) at distrowatch, that may also appeal to you. If interested in Slackware, try out salix first, and if interested in Arch, then try out Kahel first.

If you like the package managers, and the packages available in repositories meet your needs then you found what you want (both Arch and Slackware are very stable). You haven't mentioned whether you'd prefer to compile all of your packages or have them installed such as in the way synaptic or Yast do. Check out Distrowatch, and look at some of the reviews for those distros, and you'll get a better understanding of the challenges that you will find.
 
Old 12-25-2009, 03:55 AM   #29
yanfaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
I'm being a total asshole here. But if you want to learn why don't you start with the boot loader LILO...
Actually, you're not being an asshole

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
...Get a grip of LILO and how it works then you can install it on every thing and as easy as grub.
And with the slackware book you'll really get the hang of the linux world and can get your self through nearly other distro I know about with ease.

Don't take this as an insult but rather as a challenge.
Point well taken, and thanks for the advice. However, I see LILO as sharing the same fate as the dinosaurs. As far as my attempts to install LILO, I followed the installer because I don't know enough to deviate from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhjim View Post
...
Just for the challenge to show you I'll install slackware today to my usb stick and have it boot.
Hey buddy How is that USB install of Slackware going? Not so good I take it since you not posted a success story. Also, Pendrive Linux would constitute cheating. Again, thanks for the input though.

Last edited by yanfaun; 12-25-2009 at 03:59 AM.
 
Old 12-25-2009, 04:12 AM   #30
yanfaun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~sHyLoCk~ View Post
OP = Original poster
Yes it is possible to install grub instead of Lilo in Slackware.
How?
When it asks you to install a bootloader, default being Lilo, skip it. Finish everything else and then exit install. Don't reboot.
Browse through your DVD-Rom, and go to /extra and installpkg the grub package from there and install it in your MBR
.

Regards
I never knew that grub was on the installation DVD!! Thanks much! Ok, ok, Damn it! Now I have to burn another DVD. I think that I can succeed with Grub. However, I am wondering whether or not Slackware will support video and xserver on anything less than two years old. No matter, I am going to try it!
 
  


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