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Old 03-14-2006, 07:51 AM   #31
cov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchajecki
zaphod_es, I understand and accept your point of view. In fact your comments made me think carefully about my approach to using root.

isd2301, thanks for reminding us about mc. I used to use it at Uni on Slackware. I also used xtree on DOS. mc is an excellent command line tool and I had indeed (alomst) forgotten it.

Incidentally, if anyone using SuSE 9.x or 10.x has suddenly found that they are no longer able to log into GUI as root, this might be the reason:

http://wiki.suselinuxsupport.de/wikk...wToLoginasroot

The article seems to have been edited since it was first posted as it no longer mentions the fact that SuSE released an auto update to address this security issue. Anyone with auto update enabled and configured will have had this 'fix' delivered automatically and will have found that their GUI login as root now opens up a restricted xterm instead of the KDE desktop.
Yeah, I read the remarks on why you can't log in as Administrator in XP.

That's fair enough.

I mean in XP you don't have to get into the guts to get it to work, do you?

Don't get me wrong, I love linux and hate having to use XP, but, for many reasons (locked down proprietry code only available to Windows for one), it doesn't often work out of the box.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 07:58 AM   #32
Emerson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exsat
Why cant people log in as root if they wanto?why should anybody tell other people what to do,If a person log in as root in kde and fuck the linux up,well that should be his problem.It is a stupid qusk to ask why poeple wanto log in as root.THe ansver are,it is more easy,If you wanto delete something,you cant do before you are logged in as root.Sure you can start a konsol and be root with su/sudo.But what is the point?I just wanto log in as root.If the distro gentoo dont support it,well then is a crap distro

Exsat!
What a perfect example of "Windows thinking".
What you think the root account is? An user account with greater rights? Nope! It is a technical account, a housekeeping account.
Root downloading with ftp, root surfing web, root chatting on IRC. Does it sound sensible to you? Then you haven't even started with computer science.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 08:02 AM   #33
cov
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Incidently, you can edit the file called kdmrc and edit the line which says "AllowRootLogin=false" so that it is either commented out, or set to "true".

The file is at /usr/kde/3.2/share/config/kdm/kdmrc on GenToo, try /etc/X11/xdm/kdmrc and /usr/share/config/kdm/kdmrc for other distros.

And keep quiet about this.

I don't want anybody to know who told you.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 08:21 AM   #34
cov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson
What a perfect example of "Windows thinking".
What you think the root account is? An user account with greater rights? Nope! It is a technical account, a housekeeping account.
Root downloading with ftp, root surfing web, root chatting on IRC. Does it sound sensible to you? Then you haven't even started with computer science.
Well, that's fair enough.

It doesn't make sense for a user to use the root account ALL the time. But there are times (particularly when you're setting the machine up), when root access is essential.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 09:55 AM   #35
zaphod_es
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Cov, are you are talking about it being essential to log into the GUI with root as the user? If so could you give an example of something that cannot be done as an ordinary user using a program as sudo/root or using an xterm?

Maybe you mean that there are occasions when you are stuck and to get out of a hole you log into, say, KDE as root to do a particular task which you have been unable to do any other way. This I concede is a possibility but I regard it as a failure of the system administrator rather than the system.

Distros like Mandriva and Suse have lot of visual configuration tools and you can do pretty well everything with them. You will need the root password to use them. If you install Gentoo, Slackware or LFS there is very little hand holding and it is assumed that you are capable of editing your configuration files at the command line.

My guess is that if you went to the Gentoo section of LinxQuestions.org and told them that "there are times (particularly when you're setting the machine up), when root [GUI] access is essential", you would be met with hoots of derision The point of using a distro like that is that you want to do the configuration manually.

What you call being bossed about by your box (an unusual complaint from a Gentoo user!) is just routine good security. The defaults are set to accepted safe norms. You are free to change whatever you like.

ZB
 
Old 03-14-2006, 11:49 AM   #36
cov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
Cov, are you are talking about it being essential to log into the GUI with root as the user? If so could you give an example of something that cannot be done as an ordinary user using a program as sudo/root or using an xterm?
Well, okay, seeing as you are gearing yourself to hoot with laughter at my little difficulties, yes I will.

I'm currently trying to set up both my network and my sound.

As I remember it, that's why I abandoned Gentoo for Knoppix some years back; I had a terrible time trying to set up my systems, Knoppix kind of did that right from the off.

I have a lot more experience now, and also, I'm trying to utilise Gentoo's support for AMD64.

But yes, I could go into /etc/modules.conf and edit that file. Except that the files has explicit instructions not to edit it! So, basically, I need to find the application that does the configuration of this file an run that.

(As I say, I'm no novice, but I'm not necesarilly an expert on Gentoo either)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
Maybe you mean that there are occasions when you are stuck and to get out of a hole you log into, say, KDE as root to do a particular task which you have been unable to do any other way. This I concede is a possibility but I regard it as a failure of the system administrator rather than the system.
Well, yes, you are probably right. As I say, I'm not a novice, but I haven't touched Gentoo for quite a few years.

But yes, seeing as you impune my abilities, you are probably right. (I would hate to be a newbie here!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
Distros like Mandriva and Suse have lot of visual configuration tools and you can do pretty well everything with them. You will need the root password to use them. If you install Gentoo, Slackware or LFS there is very little hand holding and it is assumed that you are capable of editing your configuration files at the command line.
Yes. I suppose I DO need my hand holding. See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
My guess is that if you went to the Gentoo section of LinxQuestions.org and told them that "there are times (particularly when you're setting the machine up), when root [GUI] access is essential", you would be met with hoots of derision
Well, maybe. They generally seem to be quite understanding. However, the server has been down since Saturday. It has recently been restored, I'm pleased to say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
The point of using a distro like that is that you want to do the configuration manually.
Ah. My point exactly. See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
What you call being bossed about by your box (an unusual complaint from a Gentoo user!) is just routine good security. The defaults are set to accepted safe norms. You are free to change whatever you like.
ZB
Well, yes. Please see my post above on how to circumvent the restrictions placed on logging into KDE as root.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 01:17 PM   #37
cov
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Just a quick appendum to the post above.

Look, I appreciate that my Spanish is a damn site worse than your english.

I appreciate, too that you are generously posting here because you want to help.

Me too.

I posted here because there was some guy tring to work out how to log into his system as root. I don't know what he was trying to achieve, I don't know if there is a better way of achieving whatever it was. I confess that I hadn't read all of the thread.

I just know that he wanted to do something that some well-meaning people had locked him out of.

Now, to me, it's his system. If he wants to screw it up, that's his business.

I recognise that distros like Suse feel that it might be damaging if someone breaks a Suse install.

As far as I'm concerned, once we tell him of the dangers of embarking on that path, we can tell him how to do it.

Yeah, okay, we'll have to probably hold his hand afterward as we explain how he can resurrect his system.

But I still think that it's a decision that nobody else can make for him.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 01:24 PM   #38
cov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod_es
My guess is that if you went to the Gentoo section of LinxQuestions.org
Sorry, I misread this. I actually haven't tried to post questions at the Gentoo section of LinuxQuestions, as forums.gentoo.org is a pretty helpful forum. And, yes, it's their server which has been down these last few days.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 02:00 PM   #39
dalek
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Are you sure the Gentoo forums have been down? I have been searching them myself for a problem I had. I even have a thread on there. I got some help too so it must be working for some anyway.

I think I posted this a while back, I use Gentoo and I have never logged into the GUI as root to work on anything. I keep a Konsole open as root and I use Konqueror as root sometimes but that is it. There is NO need to log into a GUI as root. I had to fiddle with my sound and netowrking stuff to but I still never had to use a root GUI to do it.

Later

 
Old 03-14-2006, 02:21 PM   #40
cov
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No, the gentoo forums have been down sinse Saturday night http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/36672

Yes, you're right, I never usually log in as root to the GUI, but I'm trying to get my sound and network working using kcontrol (which worked before).

As I've posted before, sudo won't let me open the DISPAY and su seems to have latched on to the wrong password file. (ie koqueror and the console don't work in the gui). The other ttys all work, though, and I can log on as root there. Not that it's a problem, anyway, because I've restored the DEFAULT kdm behaviour which is to allow root logons.
 
Old 03-14-2006, 02:41 PM   #41
zaphod_es
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cov
Well, okay, seeing as you are gearing yourself to hoot with laughter at my little difficulties, yes I will.
Sorry, I admit I was having what I thought was a gentle dig, but I did mean it when I was saying that the Gentoo guys would laugh at the suggestion it is necessary to log into KDE as root to configure the system. I know three Gentoo users and two do not use any sort of GUI ever. Probably my attitude was because you came to a newbie forum with a question about an expert system blaming that system for your woes and giving unsound opinions on that forum.

Gentoo is way beyond my abilities; to run it properly needs a lot of skill and its users develop a deep understanding of how Linux works. I prefer the comfort of (K)Ubuntu where life is less exciting and more predictable. I wish you good luck in your journey.

Quote:
But yes, I could go into /etc/modules.conf and edit that file. Except that the files has explicit instructions not to edit it! So, basically, I need to find the application that does the configuration of this file an run that.
As I said, I am not a Gentoo user but I did find this:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handboo...?part=1&chap=7 Maybe paragraph 7d which refers to modules-update is what you need. You would have a much better chance of an informed answer on the Gentoo forum.

Quote:
But yes, seeing as you impune my abilities, you are probably right. (I would hate to be a newbie here!)
The newbies tend to be treated pretty fairly in my experience. If I had thought that you were one I would have politely suggested that you find a distro more appropriate to your experience.

I am sorry if I offended you but I am still of the opinion that is should not be necessary to boot into KDE as root to set up your system.

ZB
 
Old 03-14-2006, 03:49 PM   #42
cov
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ZB,

I hope my subsequent posts made it plain that I took no offence.

One of the things I wanted to log in as root for was to check that the reason my sound wasn't working was not because my permissions were screwed up.
 
  


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