linux is slower than microsoft windows
 

hello

i hope no one takes me wrong

but thats the truth... in my computer

i have a old laptop, compaq notebook 100 475mhz 64mb
im a normal person who's work has absolutely nothing to do with computers. i just use my computer at home as any other normal person does.
like many people i also spend LOTS of time at the computer, this means that i have have learned a lot about microsoft windows, i mean about tweaking and settings, etc. for example in this laptop i use a special version of microsoft windows millenium edition that uses the microsoft windows 95 explorer.exe and has no internet explorer, it's a lot faster!

but i really wanted to use a free operating system, linux. i really want to use...
but the truth is that it runs S-L-O-W. im posting this message in this forum because im a linux newbie, i know almost nothing and i have no friends to help me. being a newbie means that maybe i missed the simplest thing to speed it up or something.

i use the last version of slackware with the last version of fluxbox... i don't know what else i need to tell you... i didn't install kde or gnome.

why i say that slackware is slower? because i use mozilla firefox in both operating systems, and if i open the same websites (normal sites, web messenger, etc) everything runs faster (and i can even open other applications) in microsoft windows.

ohhhh, why? i really wanted to use linux

tell me if you want to know anything else to help me with my problem

thanks for your time

how much swap space are you using with linux? and what kernel? I use iceWM on my computers that have that little ram.

how can i view the swap space?

i use the default slackware 10.1 kernel

to see your swap and how much you use (at the bash prompt):

free

and for your kernel:

uname -a

post the output of these commands.

almost forgot do this with the WM loaded (full gui running just like it is when it's slow)

the command top will show you which programs are running, and how much memory they're using. i think you press > once to sort by %mem. there may be services running that you don't need (sshd comes to mind, for instance).

booted and log in as my username "username" he he, startx then xterm and then SU
and did what you say

bash-3.00# uname -a
Linux hostname 2.4.29 #6 Thu Jan 20 16:30:37 PST 2005 i586 unknown unknown GNU/Linux


bash-3.00# free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 53556 49940 3616 0 492 17676
-/+ buffers/cache: 31772 21784
Swap: 112448 8064 104384





top - 22:10:04 up 9 min, 2 users, load average: 0.31, 0.32, 0.19
Tasks: 34 total, 3 running, 31 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 4.3% user, 2.3% system, 0.0% nice, 93.4% idle
Mem: 53556k total, 50392k used, 3164k free, 496k buffers
Swap: 112448k total, 8064k used, 104384k free, 17972k cached

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
458 root 15 0 28884 16m 1964 R 4.9 30.9 1:26.95 X
522 root 12 0 1032 1032 824 R 0.7 1.9 0:00.08 top
465 username 9 0 2536 2260 1716 R 0.3 4.2 0:00.80 xterm
1 root 9 0 60 56 32 S 0.0 0.1 0:04.55 init
2 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.14 keventd
3 root 19 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ksoftirqd_CPU0
4 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.17 kswapd
5 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 bdflush
6 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 kupdated
10 root -1 -20 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mdrecoveryd
71 root 9 0 296 256 256 S 0.0 0.5 0:00.01 udevd
72 root 9 0 668 560 500 S 0.0 1.0 0:00.01 cardmgr
159 root 9 0 480 424 424 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.00 dhcpcd
221 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 khubd
412 root 9 0 1216 1104 960 S 0.0 2.1 0:00.23 sshd
420 root 9 0 584 584 504 S 0.0 1.1 0:00.01 crond
428 root 9 0 464 460 416 S 0.0 0.9 0:00.01 gpm
430 username 9 0 1396 960 960 S 0.0 1.8 0:00.14 bash
431 root 9 0 464 416 416 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.00 agetty
432 root 9 0 464 416 416 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.00 agetty
433 root 9 0 464 416 416 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.01 agetty
434 root 9 0 464 416 416 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.00 agetty
435 root 9 0 464 416 416 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.00 agetty
445 username 9 0 1188 904 904 S 0.0 1.7 0:00.05 startx
457 username 9 0 632 540 540 S 0.0 1.0 0:00.01 xinit
462 username 9 0 3264 2912 2472 S 0.0 5.4 0:01.86 fluxbox
467 username 9 0 1372 948 948 S 0.0 1.8 0:00.04 bash
469 root 9 0 1464 1208 1144 S 0.0 2.3 0:00.08 bash
475 username 9 0 1324 1008 1008 S 0.0 1.9 0:00.09 firefox
495 username 9 0 1332 984 984 S 0.0 1.8 0:00.08 run-mozilla.sh
500 username 9 0 23732 21m 11m S 0.0 41.6 0:45.15 firefox-bin
502 username 8 0 23732 21m 11m S 0.0 41.6 0:00.00 firefox-bin
503 username 9 0 23732 21m 11m S 0.0 41.6 0:00.31 firefox-bin

ugh, next time use the code tags when you post that stuff, so the formatting is easier to read, lol! my poor eyes!

anyway, it looks like X is using 30.9% of your memory, which definitely sounds unreasonable. i'm not at home, but i guarantee X isn't that much of a hog on either of my slackware machines. do you get any error messages when you start X?

Firefox is supremely slow on Linux. That's just it. Maybe it's because it uses GTK+2 (slow) or that whole XUL thing. I don't know. All I know is that it's way slower on Linux (on my box on several distros in several Window Managers / Desktop Environments). Mozilla seems to be a little faster but not much. Epiphany and that other one I can't remember the name of in Gnome are faster. Konqueror in KDE is waaaay faster.

Same thing with Azureus. Check out the population slowness of the files tab (when you have a torrent with a lot of files in it).

Gentoo runs well on older boxes maybe try it out. Post back in a week or two (whenever you get it compiled)

this is after runing mozilla-firefox the same websites as in microsoft windows and xmms

bash-3.00# free
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 53556 52360 1196 0 204 8960
-/+ buffers/cache: 43196 10360
Swap: 112448 55612 56836



top - 22:49:53 up 49 min, 2 users, load average: 1.12, 1.09, 0.84
Tasks: 40 total, 2 running, 38 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 0.0% user, 100.0% system, 0.0% nice, 0.0% idle
Mem: 53556k total, 52144k used, 1412k free, 220k buffers
Swap: 112448k total, 55996k used, 56452k free, 10028k cached

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
591 root 18 0 1036 1036 824 R 99.9 1.9 0:00.35 top
1 root 9 0 60 56 56 S 0.0 0.1 0:04.55 init
2 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.22 keventd
3 root 19 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ksoftirqd_CPU0
4 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:03.67 kswapd
5 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 bdflush
6 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.03 kupdated
10 root -1 -20 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 mdrecoveryd
71 root 9 0 104 64 64 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.01 udevd
72 root 9 0 300 132 132 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.01 cardmgr
159 root 9 0 172 116 116 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.01 dhcpcd
221 root 9 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 khubd
412 root 9 0 392 136 136 S 0.0 0.3 0:00.23 sshd
420 root 8 0 236 188 188 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.03 crond
428 root 9 0 160 140 140 S 0.0 0.3 0:00.08 gpm
430 username 9 0 512 76 76 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.14 bash
431 root 9 0 128 80 80 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 agetty
432 root 9 0 128 80 80 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 agetty
433 root 9 0 128 80 80 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.01 agetty
434 root 9 0 128 80 80 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 agetty
435 root 9 0 128 80 80 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 agetty
445 username 9 0 360 76 76 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.05 startx
457 username 9 0 240 148 148 S 0.0 0.3 0:00.01 xinit
458 root 18 0 33156 6672 5776 R 0.0 12.5 6:53.95 X
462 username 9 0 1916 1324 1324 S 0.0 2.5 0:07.18 fluxbox
465 username 11 0 1816 876 816 S 0.0 1.6 0:01.35 xterm
467 username 9 0 500 76 76 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.04 bash
469 root 9 0 896 588 536 S 0.0 1.1 0:00.19 bash
475 username 9 0 448 132 132 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.09 firefox
495 username 9 0 480 132 132 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.08 run-mozilla.sh
500 username 10 0 41536 35m 27m S 0.0 68.4 11:17.28 firefox-bin
502 username 8 0 41536 35m 27m S 0.0 68.4 0:00.03 firefox-bin
503 username 9 0 41536 35m 27m S 0.0 68.4 0:02.58 firefox-bin
505 username 9 0 41536 35m 27m S 0.0 68.4 0:02.14 firefox-bin
538 username 9 0 2640 1268 1076 S 0.0 2.4 0:04.33 xmms
539 username 9 0 2640 1268 1076 S 0.0 2.4 0:00.00 xmms

Damn Small Linux is good for machines with limited memory.

Anyway, I just want to be sure I understand what you're talking about. What is it that is "running slower"? Is it web page loading? Application startups? What is it that seems slower to you?

Web page loading could be nothing more than a misconfigured connection.

thanks for your time!

it gets REALLY slow when i try to change from one window to another, for example when i have two mozilla firefox windows in two virtual desktops and change from one desktop to another. this is not a problem... i could use only one desktop window, i do that now. but even like that if i open two mozilla firefox windows in the same desktop and try to change frome one to another, it gets slow, even if i try to change tabs inside one single mozilla firefox window!

could it be because of the resolution, i mean, my old laptop in microsoft windows only allows me to have 800x600 but i think that in fluxbox im using 1024x768! i asked a friend how to change it, he told me to edit the xorg file in /etc/X11, i did, removed "1024x768" in the lines but the resolution looks the same.

thanks one more for helping me

64 Mb just won't do if you run a heavy graphical environment. You'll need 128 Mb at least and preferably 256 and use a graphics card that supports OpenGL to take some tasks of the main processor.

Linux runs even with 4 mb if needed, but not with KDE or Gnome on top of that. The underlying X server is also quit heavy, but without that nothing graphical will happen.

Running at higher resolutions is fine, but it takes more memory to store the desktops.

And Fluxbox with Slack is a heavy graphical environment?
I've got Slack-based Vector on a 600MHz, 32 MB RAM laptop with the Vector-customized IceWM. It all runs without problems.

I have IceWM on an old nec with 16mb and BasicLinux3 (slackware based mini distro) its a very good light WM also with very little ram you'll be using swap and if DMA isn't on that will slow things down.

i run slackware 10.0 and fluxbox on an old compaq PII with 64mb ram, and i do not notice the kind of slowness you're talking about, so i think there is a problem somewhere. this is _not_ a heavy graphical environment, imo, and running firefox and changing between windows shouldn't take more than a couple seconds. unfortunately i don't know what to suggest, other than seeing if X gives any errors when you start it, or maybe reinstalling.

imo that setup should be running faster than you describe.

Thing, I dont know why and how did u come to the conclusion to run Slack on laptop lol..
best idea - use SuSE 9.3 pro! its also user friendly (u said u r new to all of this)
and also 9.1 and above are designed with laptops in mind (power saving, hibernation etc).
not sure if it is good for you since u got only 64mb ram lol..
cant u add a bit more ram? then u should be fine to run SuSE and enjoy it..

thanks but i want to use slackware.

"Vector-customized IceWM" whats that?

could anyone tell me how to change the resolution

moloko: as i said, i don't use kde or gnome, only fluxbox

thanks!

I tend to agree in general. I've tried three different distros (Debian Sarge with IceWM, Mandrake 10.1 with KDE, and Ubuntu with Gnome). All were set up with plenty of RAM (1.5GB system and 128MB video) and large swap files and none of them were ever as fast as my Windows 2000 installation. Of course of these three Mandrake was the worst, and Ubuntu seems to be the best.
EDIT: actually Debian with IceWM might have been a little faster, but I like the greater functionality of Gnome.

I did experience some type of video problem once on an entirely different system that caused the system to respond very slow as described at least one person in this thread. Even running a clean simple installation of Debian with IceWM or Fluxbox it took from 2-8 seconds to switch between windows. Obviously this was some type of incorrect setting or conflict and not just a slow distro.

Carmageddon where did you get the mistaken idea that Slack isn't good for running a laptop? I use Slack on my lappy and everything works perfectly including ACPI functions. Why run a bloated distro on a machine with limited resources when Slack does the job just fine without all the bloat?

Thing, while your machine really needs more RAM, take a look at your X configuration and make sure it's set up correctly as this can slow you down a bit if it isn't.

thing0:

What do you get when you run 'hdparm /dev/hda' as root (after doing 'su -')?

Dave

i will see that when i boot slackware.

so, i should use icewm, not fluxbox?

I've never used fluxbox so I couldn't tell you that one's better then the other but, iceWM works for me on my laptop with even less ram then you (16mb) and I find it easy to use and fairly configurable.

try
Ctrl Alt +
or
Ctrl Alt -

that could work (depends on your xorg.conf file...)
if that doesn't work, then find in google how to edit that file
Cheers!!

bash-3.00# hdparm /dev/hda1

/dev/hda1:
multcount = 16 (on)
IO_support = 1 (32-bit)
unmaskirq = 1 (on)
using_dma = 1 (on)
keepsettings = 0 (off)
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead = 8 (on)
geometry = 3648/255/63, sectors = 20974431744, start = 63

why are things so hard in linux!!!

i can't even know what my screen resolution is...
alt ctrl - didn't work to change it

and i cant start icewm

when i try to "icewm-session" i get lots of errors with

cant open display <none> x must be running and $display set


errr.... why... ... ... ...

take it easy and just take a look on how to edit your xorg.conf file...
(it is easer that it seems to be! ;) )

well... i removed slackware, now, what should i install? what distro and window manager, icewm i think.

in my experience computing always works in tradeoffs. do you want security, or ease of use? do you want it to be fast, or user-friendly? as far as i know, the fast linux distros like slackware and gentoo (note: i've never used gentoo but this is my impression) are fast because they keep most things simple and uncluttered. unfortunately, this means more work for you in setting up your system (although "more work" is somewhat misleading because in many cases editing the appropriate text file is faster and easier than finding the right check box in a gui config utility, once you know where it is and how to edit it).

so...i'm not sure what to suggest. to me, it seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

the distro itself is not very important if you're looking for speed, important is to have a light graph. environment (icewm would be certainly light enough) and also to check you have ONLY the services you need up and nothing more. check which programs consume the most memory and try substitutes...if your hdd is slow try fine-tuning 'hdparm', if your X-sys is slow try fine-tuning your xorg.conf file... I think those are the clue. check memory usage, shutdown services you don't need...
Cheers!!

okay i will install slackware again... then i will have to try icewm

If you have a lot of hard disk activity while switching desktops, and it takes long for the window's contents to appear, then your system is most likely swapping like mad. It happens on my older machine (which has only 128MB RAM) as well.

Firefox is a nice browser, but it is extremely hungry for memory. Right now I only have two tabs open (forum thread and this reply window) and it eats over 40MB of RAM just like that.

Since that value is ridiculous for just one web page or two (which take less than 1MB to download) I guess it must be some kind of cache Firefox is keeping somewhere. Sadly, the only cache size I can configure in the Preferences Dialog seems to be the disk cache.

You could try to enter "about:config" as URL and mess with the variables by hand (and be careful not to mess up). Look for browser.cache.memory.enable and set it to false. Might be faster this way than swapping all the time.

On systems which are low on RAM, your main goal is to find out which software consumes the most RAM and think about reconfiguring / replacing it with something more resource-friendly.

I have been a Windows user for a very long time and frankly, I think you can get a lot very fast out of your computer without too much troubles. The only problem for me was that I wanted to use EVERYTHING and I wanted to know HOW. So Slack was the way to go.

I think you're after the same, but you don't really care how, as lon as it works. Well, I can agree to that. So lets get you on track and stop talking about what distro/WM/DE/... you should use! Help this man out don't be so freaking self-centred!!!!!! (sorry but I've been very irritated by that on this forum ;))


So, I suggest you install Slackware again and then post the following files:

xorg.conf
/etc/modules.conf (never know slacks doing something stupid...)
/etc/modprobe.conf


And about your Firefox thing, it is true that firefox is getting heavier but it should still do the trick... Maybe look for a lighter browser?

Mathijs

I think I found that firefox variable:
browser.cache.memory.enable
right click and click toggle
you can find this in about:config
I'm on a Windoze system now (64MB), but it seems to be running faster.

One thing that might help, too, is something I discovered on my (SuSE) system.

When I loaded FF it, too, ran slow compared to Win2K on my syteem. (I have a dual-boot configuration with seperate hard drives.)

I eneded up disabling IPv6 and firefox took off like a mouse of of a cat convention.

It now runs faster loading pages (using a stopwatch) than it doesn on my Win2K side. In fact, using Suse 9.2 (as compared to Mandrake or Suse 9.1) it is overall faster doing things than Win2K. (Let's not even get into this POS WinXP that I'm forced to use at work.)

You might also run a comparible speed test. For example, I often test my page loading speed and NIC config. Here's the stanford linux tool: http://www.stanford.edu/~preese/netspeed/ and the web-based java application: http://netspeed.stanford.edu/

I know Stanford is a private school and may not be as reliable as state schools, such as UCLA, but it is a pretty good test.

Anyway, run this test in Windows then in Linux see if there's any difference. If there is, you may have some NIC configuration to perform.

thank you for your time!

"maybe look for a lighter browser" like what?

Epiphany is a good light browser.

does it work if i don't use gnome?

You could always try Opera. I find Firefox to be very fast on Linux. There are many tweaks you can do to speed it up.

I find that almost impossible, since Windows 2000 is a very slow and heavy Windows Distro.

But here is the cause: You did not recompile your kernel. Before recompiling my Mandrake 10.1 was slower (in boot time) then Windows XP. After recompiling the newest version 2.6.11.7 (at that time) it became 2x faster then XP (boot time)!!!!! I notice no lag at all in any of them.

About the dude with the 64MB PC, I´m sorry, the user friendly distros simply won´t run KDE or GNOME (with reasonable speed) in those conditions, you will need more RAM (256 MB, to use the current versions) to use Mandrake, Fedora Core, SuSE or Anything else with Gnome or KDE.

Also, nobody asked for your Windows version, that would be interresting to know.

I recommend Slackware (if you can set this up correctly) with a light weight X environment.