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Old 05-20-2014, 04:58 AM   #1
Tweak147
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Linux is it the best?


I just have one question that I hope has many responses to. It is a broad question but one I think many different users of Linux could add input. It isnt meant to be ignorant, but an opinion based question. So please add your input.

Do you think (I use this term broadly) "Linux" needs to have a more systematic way of distributing it's Kernels. Keep everything free and open source, but instead of 100 different version, Keep it simple stupid and let users install the versions that can accomodate everday problems a Linux user would run into. According to what I know there are so many of different kernels and version of Linux that is hard to pinpoint problems from one user to the next because lets face it, not everyone knows exactly how they work and not everyone knows what they are exactly doing. I'm not saying "let's control the internet" or "let's make everyones decisions for them" I'm just saying as a linux user there are tons of things we can accomplish. Let's go about a systematic way of reducing the problems and creating kernels that work for multi-purpose, with less questions and more answers. It can happen and it is possible. Maybe my thinking is stupid? I don't know so that is why I invite the question.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 05:07 AM   #2
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
According to what I know there are so many of different kernels and version of Linux that is hard to pinpoint problems from one user to the next because lets face it, not everyone knows exactly how they work and not everyone knows what they are exactly doing.
Which is why users must learn a little. First learn something about how the system one is using works, then expand into Linux in general.
Quote:
Let's go about a systematic way of reducing the problems and creating kernels that work for multi-purpose, with fewer questions and more answers.
Not to worry. Your wish is coming. Red Hat has begun creating a unified system. Systemd is upon us and the rest will follow.

Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus; 05-21-2014 at 02:02 AM.
 
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:10 AM   #3
chrism01
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If you stick to getting kernels from the official repos for your Distro, they pretty much tend to 'Just Work' ...

Last edited by chrism01; 05-21-2014 at 07:02 AM. Reason: typo
 
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:45 AM   #4
Tweak147
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Chrism I agree the kernels just tend to work for your Distro. They are made to work. I'm just saying there are so many distros. We could poll 100 people and odds are there would be very few using the same kernel and the same distro. Which I undertsand that is what linux is all about. The freedom to choose what you want. But as I search for answers for my own problems I see that you can find the answer for ten different Distros. As a whole I think we can agree that freedom of choice is great, but also as a whole I think we can agree that Linux is superior. So why not try to facilitate a greater Distro, albeit a far greater download in size, that can incorporate a great filesystem, a great selection of programs to use. Wether it be pen testing you are interested in or maybe you want a GUI closer related Linux. I think it is possible as I have tested a few Linux Distros myself. I think it is possible to have your cake and eat it to, but I think it requires some good assests to the Linux the world. A challenge of course...but not impossible.
P.S I want to edit this and say that I have interpreted Kernels wrong. I most likely mean Distros, but my point is the same haha. Sorry I am surely a Linux noob which I gracefully admit, but I enjoy learning nonetheless! Thanks for everyones input!

Last edited by Tweak147; 05-20-2014 at 07:54 AM.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 08:07 AM   #5
ericson007
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Well, what you describe is exactly what ubuntu sounds like to me.

Let's keep it dumb and general, now they have enough users and all the stuff you search is sent directly to canonical.

It has been done, that is why we don't want a single version, we want many, because if one starts to stink, it can rot and die.

But people don't want to learn, so they stick with ubuntu because it is easy...

Nah, much better the way it is.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 08:44 AM   #6
Tweak147
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Yes most likely what I am decribing is a lot like Ubuntu, that is where I got my first start. But I have since broadened and got into Debian based Linux. Since then I have realised that many many people get there start in Ubuntu and have the same general questions. But to be honest I have learned most when I am given "root" of the entire system and actually learned that their are consequences to editing certain parts of the "system". You can't just rogue through and expect everything to work. I have yet to reinstall..key words YET and the hardest part was realizing that you had to have the first sectors of the hard drive to create a MBR haha. But Linux has been fun, and it has pushed me to learn code, and learn commands, and all that great stuff that I think we can all agree is entertaining and why we are all apart of linux. It gives us freedom to learn and grow as computer users. But my question I think is the same. I think that everyone who uses Linux should want that one distro that we can say WOW! I think it is possible, and I think most people can agree, that wether you are new or an expert it is possible.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 09:52 AM   #7
ericson007
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Well, i consider myself new, certainly not an expert, but for me debian and centos are wow. Puppy and slax for recovery are wow. And for many on the forum slackware is wow.

Over time what i see repeatedly is rhel, debian, slack. I know i really like the first two. When i experiment with something new i always find i go back to one of them, well maybe cent since at home i am not bothered for the support.

I got use to cent because with debian r6 i felt thwy lost the plot a bit but before that debian was my favorite.

Ubuntu i always just used because nitwits programmed their stuff to use ubuntu, but never dreamed of running all their stuff. I rather use windows server because if i have to deal woth the devil, at least i use the one that supports a larger variety of apps.

If it is for open source and server ubu is a no go for me..
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:42 AM   #8
jamison20000e
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Hi. It's a big world. You could argue, the biggest communities go in too many directions or that they bring more to the table in productivity? I learned to swim in shallow waters and now often jump in to the middle of a grate lake or even the sea but that's just me. Slackware, Arch, netinst, &c or even LFS? Best wishes and have fun.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 05-20-2014 at 10:45 AM.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 10:46 AM   #9
grail
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Sorry if i am playing the devil's advocate here, but the OP has already listed several different tasks and uses which I personally could see no real use to every user to have it installed 'just in case'.
To me this screams of a Windows type mentality where you give people a large group of things which may have to be watered down to fit in the new ecosystem to work. Then all you get is people
complaining about how slow this is or that is and why doesn't it run as fast as distro such and such. Of course the answer here can often be that the distro in question where it shines
is dedicated to a particular task and hence performs it very well. That being said, the self same distro may well be horrendous at something else or simply not have it or be able to do it
at all.

I think the current format is good as there are distros to get your feet wet or draw you away from Windows or MAC, just as there are distros which are good work machines for office duties,
whilst yet others that allow you to start with a minimal base set and then grow the distro to your liking.
 
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:10 PM   #10
DavidMcCann
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It's often said that most users only use a fraction of the facilities in a program: the trouble is that every user needs a different fraction! The same goes for a operating system. To accommodate everyone, you need a lot of features. You then have an OS like Windows, which needs a huge, powerful computer just to get it running. With Linux, a KDE distro may need 2GB of RAM to run well, while one with Icewm may scrape by in 64MB. And then there's personal taste: some people actually like the Unity desktop!

In practice, most distros will do most things. Looking back over the problems I've tackled for myself and others over the years, the main ones where some distros have problems are few:
- enabling the user to use different alphabets in different windows without constantly changing drivers: any desktop (except Unity and Gnome?) as opposed to a window manager.
- encrypting /home during installation: available in CentOS, Fedora, Lite, Mint, OS4, SalentOS, Ubuntu, ZevenOS, Zorin.
- selecting from multiple sound devices: easy in anything that's not based on Debian (but Mint works)
- setting up a firewall with a port open for Telnet without editing iptables: CentOS but not Debian
- setting separate locales for each user: Arch but not Debian.
 
Old 05-20-2014, 12:29 PM   #11
jamison20000e
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Talking

[QUOTE=DavidMcCann;5174216]Although you did say "... I've tackled for myself and ..."
"...
- encrypting /home during installation: available in CentOS, Fedora, Lite, Mint, OS4, SalentOS, Ubuntu, ZevenOS, Zorin.
..."
think you left quite a few out most people are just put off by "expert install" or "manually" choose\set partitions, other opinions or unknowns there as well...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 05-21-2014 at 10:42 AM.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 07:10 AM   #12
chrism01
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Quote:
In practice, most distros will do most things
This is the point; most can do most things, BUT you don't have to install everything up front.
You just use the pkg mgr to add the customising that you personally want.

Also, if you can find the stats, you'll find a relatively small number of distros are used by most people.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 08:40 AM   #13
rtmistler
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I think a ton of this depends on what you're doing with Linux and how you "consider" Linux.

Android is Linux.

Many embedded devices use Linux.

I've made:
  1. Kiosks - Computers for general purpose at things like museums, ticket pickup stops, restaurant menus, etc
  2. Transaction and Point of Sale Devices - handheld scanners that people use at stores to track inventory, Point of Sale devices such as registers.
  3. Workout equipment displays - treadmills, elliptical devices.
  4. Instrumentation displays for cars, power plants, home monitoring systems, manufacturing systems, etc.
  5. Components of 99.999% communications systems from routers, to access points, to backbone network switches, and a whole variety of telco access devices.
Yes, many of these devices also have traditionally used commercial real time operating systems (RTOS), and many of these devices also currently contain embedded processors which aren't running Linux but do perform the real-time tasks.

My point here is that while I use Ubuntu, and MINT mainly for home and development; I deal with Linux in a vastly different manner than those who are out there trying distributions and worrying over whether or not Open Office is better or worse than MS Word.

And I do agree that Ubuntu seems to be one of the best at having tried to offer a full release to users which has a high level of maintainability and support. I also feel that MINT is like that and used to feel that Mandrake and SUSE were like that; they may still be like that I just have moved away from using those two merely because I'm not in the habit of trying the new flavor of the week.

There are also commercial versions of Linux, I think mostly for use as servers though.

I said some time ago and I believe this still to be the case. If one or more very large computer distributor were to start shipping all their systems with "a" version of Linux as the primary OS, support it, and stay with it; THAT would be a thing which would mainstream Linux, but also that version of Linux to much more general popularity with the un-interested masses who merely want a computer. Because right now you can buy barebones systems and get them with Linux; just the issue there is that you don't regularly get that from Samsung, Acer, HP, Lenovo, Gateway, Dell, and so forth.
 
Old 05-21-2014, 11:36 AM   #14
DavidMcCann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
think you left quite a few out most people are just put off by "expert install" or "manually" choose/set partitions, other opinions or unknowns there as well...
There are plenty of distros which will install themselves automatically, so you don't have to partition manually. Even if you choose to, it's endlessly documented and gparted is probably one of the simplest programs on the computer. The point I was trying to make is that there are few things that are difficult to do, and even then they are only difficult in some distros.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 06:09 PM   #15
jamison20000e
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True but if you (or many s) are distro hoppers then need more than gparted... I'd suggest using g or k parted in a live distro to bypass this until feet get wet (if possible?)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 12-03-2014 at 06:30 PM.
 
  


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