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Old 11-06-2010, 10:39 PM   #16
theKbStockpiler
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This is what the moderators enjoy: A self moderating thread. They have shut me down before you kno


If I was going to consult a Linux Encyclopaedia it would be Slackwares. Anyone that spends time to help out deserves a thanks so "Thank You" to everyone that has posted here. I don't accept the norm or worship hierarchy and my threads are usually difficult so I owe you all another thanks.

I had a lot of good leads to my questions but Seamonkey crashed on my new install of Mandriva 10 which has been a piece of junk so I will do the best that I can.

The (File System concept) is for someone that is just basically a computer user and that is it. If you want to develop a "New crashless Firefox" or a antivirus that gets even,it's not going to happen with an abstract form of notation. I don't see where the (File System) concept is important. It is like comparing source code to machine code as one is for humans and the other for your CPU. It was probably concocted to emphasize a concept and after a while it became over emphasized and the actual purpose of it has long been forgotten.


There are two commands or applications ( I can't remember) that parse the File System "notation" into an inode that the O.S can use and I think they are (namei and stat).


Ha ha I just remembered I saved the damn thing to disk. Danielle S. Lahmani is an asset to Opensource and I thank Danielle and everyone that helps keep this page on the web.



http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...client=mozilla

ntubski understands but a lot of context is needed to completely grasp the concept. Here is a special thanks to ntubski."Thanks ntubski"

So if we/I get under the (File system) that is where the understanding to my question lies. It was suggested to me to search Logical Files Systems and Hard File Systems which encapsulates the concept but is not a good term for a search engine,nothing comes up in google.

I'm going to read up on topics that remove the abstraction of the (File System). If I get a good link I will post it here.
Here's one on inodes.
http://www.linfo.org/inode.html
 
Old 11-06-2010, 11:33 PM   #17
paulsm4
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Quote:
The (File System concept) is for someone that is just basically a computer user and that is it.
That's absurd It's also arguably true So on that paradox, let me try to answer your original question:

Q: What the heck is a "filesystem" good for?

A: A "filesystem" is merely a way to organize your "stuff".
Nothing more, nothing less. As simple as that.

ELABORATION:
1. If your "stuff" consisted of "a program", you wouldn't need a "filesystem". That's pretty much how a video game or a DVD player works - you basically just "turn it on" and press "go".

2. The Linux thing you're calling a "filesystem" originated with Unix, was stolen almost verbatim by MS-DOS. They changed which direction the "\" delimiters pointed, and dumbed it down to "8.3" characters, but it was still pretty much the same thing.

3. That same "Unix filesystem" was carried forward to most contemporary operating systems, including Linux, MacOS and - of course - MS Windows. It's capable of managing many millions of files spread across terabytes of storage.

4. But a "filesystem" certainly isn't the only alternative for "organizing stuff". MS Sharepoint, for example, is several levels of abstraction removed from anything that's recognizably "files" and "directories" on a "disk":

http://www.wssdemo.com/Pages/Architecture.aspx

The Internet itself is an excellent example of "stuff" being "stored" and "retrieved" without necessarily being tied to any "filesystem".

So in answer to your original question: a "filesystem" is merely a way of organizing "bytes" your hard drive into "stuff" that can easily be saved and retrieved. It's (relatively) simple, and it scales relatively well. "Filesystems" have proven to be a good solution to a common problem.

If you want to understand Linux Filesystems a bit better, refer to the links above. It's particularly important to understand the concept of "inodes", and how they allow a mapping between physical "blocks" and logical "files" and "directories".

If you want to understand Windows Filesystems a bit better, here's a good link:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...8WS.10%29.aspx

'Hope that helps
 
Old 11-07-2010, 12:54 AM   #18
theKbStockpiler
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This kind of stuff must eat you up inside when you see it!

Actually I have this all figured out. If you Google (Linux File System) most of the links are for the (Linux File System) "Tree" and not the "System". I made a mistake and Googled Unix File System and because of the Technical Nature of Unix more of the links are for the System and not the tree. I have browsed the Slackware docs. and have found them complete but not that indepth in my opinion. If it does have a comprehensive section on the (Linux File "System") and not tree I apologise. I have gotten the Slackware link before and it came up empty on the current topic. For the posters that leave "RTFM", shouldn't it really be FRTM?

Thanks for the reply. If you had not made it I would not have Googled Unix by accident. Just imagine that there is a dancing banana emotioncon here. This should keep me off the Forum for at least a week. Enjoy!

http://www.angelfire.com/myband/binusoman/Unix.html

Last edited by theKbStockpiler; 11-07-2010 at 12:56 AM.
 
Old 11-07-2010, 01:40 AM   #19
vyver
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Cool

To Onebuck---GURU,
Sorry for the delayed reply! I thank you for the post to me. No, you never sounded "high and mighty" at all! I really,really appreciate that!

I strongly felt that that KbStockpiler, the @OP,first post,was refreshingly different and that's the reason i entered the thread and the "Slackware link" was excellent!
In our days the medical PG courses were for three years and the training included"GENERAL CLINICS" a sort of "ragging"by the teaching staff led by the HOD,in front of an audience of 60 under-graduate students! It was a test of knowledge of medicine, instant recall and a test of character! Only the best came out unscathed! That's the reason why i was piqued in one of my posts!
As long as the world is turning and spinning, we're gonna be dizzy and we're gonna make mistakes. ~ Mel Brooks
Thank you all and regards,
vyver.
 
Old 11-07-2010, 01:41 AM   #20
theKbStockpiler
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I figured it out AGAIN ! And maybe I will figure it out some more later!

The File System is about Meta Data. How and where the Meta Data is stored. If you posted a link that describes it in "Meta Data" lets see the quote! When you or I say "File System" the next word on the tip of our tongues should be "Meta Data".

Last edited by theKbStockpiler; 11-07-2010 at 01:45 AM.
 
Old 11-07-2010, 03:33 AM   #21
martinbc
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Code:
The (File System concept) is for someone that is just basically a computer user and that is it.
If you want to develop a "New crashless Firefox" or a antivirus that gets even,
it's not going to happen with an abstract form of notation.
I don't see where the (File System) concept is important.
You could write your new version of Firefox-nocrash and store any information on a disk in just about any way with your program/application knowing where and how to access its own data.
I could then come along and write a program that uses the disk in the way I want, as long as I find out where your data and program are and avoid them our programs can live along side each other happily.
Unfortunately there are millions and millions of friends also writing programs, getting them all to avoid everyone elses' data could be hard, if even one of them doesn't look through the (published) list of used disk block numbers carefully there could be tears
And if one of them, having unrestricted access to the disk and the list of where everyone stores their data, decided to maliciously modify an area used by another we have a virus.
Any secure OS has to restrict access to storage devices and funnel use of them through a controlling process. It may not make a perfect system but its a good step along the way.
Code:
It is like comparing source code to machine code as one is for humans and the other for your CPU.
You're right, and I know which I'd rather work with and which is likely to result in a better OS.

Martin
 
Old 11-07-2010, 05:57 AM   #22
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by vyver View Post
To Onebuck---GURU,
Sorry for the delayed reply! I thank you for the post to me. No, you never sounded "high and mighty" at all! I really,really appreciate that!

I strongly felt that that KbStockpiler, the @OP,first post,was refreshingly different and that's the reason i entered the thread and the "Slackware link" was excellent!

In our days the medical PG courses were for three years and the training included"GENERAL CLINICS" a sort of "ragging"by the teaching staff led by the HOD,in front of an audience of 60 under-graduate students! It was a test of knowledge of medicine, instant recall and a test of character! Only the best came out unscathed! That's the reason why i was piqued in one of my posts!
As long as the world is turning and spinning, we're gonna be dizzy and we're gonna make mistakes. ~ Mel Brooks
Thank you all and regards,
vyver.
I do agree that the OP's posts were intriguing from construed points but some prefer points that do eventually provide useful terms or conclusions

As for memories of our youth, I too remember sessions of the sort, my experiences were from the point of students wanting to sink knowledge. Those times were very challenging and exciting, I miss the students but not the stress of politics within administration. Our primary responsibilities were to the students and to develop knowledgeable, responsible Engineers that someday would help excel our profession. Those times did keep me sharp but with the added management stresses wore the body rapidly thus requiring me to step into the shadows.

That's one of the reasons for participating here on LQ! Stresses are minimal and I can continue to contribute at my pace whenever possible.

"Knowledge of mankind is a knowledge of their passions." - Disraeli
 
Old 11-07-2010, 06:21 PM   #23
paulsm4
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Hi -
Quote:
I do agree that the OP's posts were intriguing from construed points but some prefer points that do eventually provide useful terms or conclusions
I was originally going to give the OP the benefit of a doubt. But at this point in the discussion (or "monologue" - take your pick ), I'm more reminded of Bob Dylan's "Ballad of a Thin Man":
Quote:
You walk into the room like a camel
And then you frown
You put your eyes in your pockets,
And your nose on the ground
Or, from the same album,
Quote:
I wish that I could sing you a melody so plain
That could hold you, dear lady, from going insane
That could ease you and cool you
And cease the pain
Of your useless and pointless knowledge.
So, theKbStockpiler -

I hope we answered your questions. I wish you luck. And I hope you gain some weight
 
  


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