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Old 08-18-2006, 03:24 AM   #1
bongski55
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Thumbs down Linux Becoming Very Advanced for New Users


I am not really that new to linux having started with the eaqrly days of knoppix. I have installed the latest knoppix derivative Kanotix as this is the only one that detected my laptop's hardware.
I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me. Now you have to have broadband connection to do that.I cannot afford the cost of a broadband/high speed internet in my country. The alternative is to order the cd but then by the time the cd arrives there will be a new version of the distro.
My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many software companies do( in windows mostly). apget is really not practical for me at least.
 
Old 08-18-2006, 03:32 AM   #2
ethics
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https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

free cds for ubuntu, i just put it on a laptop and it detected everything, sound,video the works.

It needs tweaking from the get go (running a bit sluggish, but will be better than 1686 optimised arch (this is a P3 laptop).

I understand your position with broadband, i'm one who takes it for granted, but i realise it is not so readily available in other parts of the world the simple matter is, for Linux to maintain it's free (as in beer) stance on alot of distros (which does help it get exposure) they have to reduce costs as much as possible, and cd production is fairly costly (especially on smaller scales).

Is there not some sort of government/educational learning facility like a library/college etc that you could download it at and burn to a cd?.

There is also DSL which is about 50MB, would take a while on dial up but no-where near as bad as 700 MB ones.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
 
Old 08-18-2006, 03:39 AM   #3
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
I am not really that new to linux having started with the eaqrly days of knoppix. I have installed the latest knoppix derivative Kanotix as this is the only one that detected my laptop's hardware.
I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me. Now you have to have broadband connection to do that.I cannot afford the cost of a broadband/high speed internet in my country. The alternative is to order the cd but then by the time the cd arrives there will be a new version of the distro.
My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many software companies do( in windows mostly). apget is really not practical for me at least.
I'm not sure how using a download tool for windows differs
from apt-get for debian? You're downloading stuff that is
considered an update in either case.


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-18-2006, 08:22 AM   #4
pixellany
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Quote:
I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me.
I don't understand this.....My perspective is that updating distros is getting EASIER. There are better package managers, and more complete repositories. Some of the package managers are more user-friendly than Windows Update ever was.
Not having a high-speed connection will be limiting with Windows, Linux, and any OS, os that is a different issue.
Finally, once you have something installed, you are not **required** to update it. And you can choose which updates to accept.
 
Old 08-18-2006, 08:40 AM   #5
Spudley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethics
There is also DSL which is about 50MB, would take a while on dial up but no-where near as bad as 700 MB ones.

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
Does anyone else spot the irony that DSL (1) is the one distro that doesn't require a DSL (2) internet connection to download it? Or was it a deliberate in-joke by the DSL (1) developers?


(1) DSL: Damn Small Linux.
(2) DSL: Digital Subscriber Line (ie ADSL or SDSL)
 
Old 08-18-2006, 11:28 AM   #6
bongski55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany
I don't understand this.....My perspective is that updating distros is getting EASIER. There are better package managers, and more complete repositories. Some of the package managers are more user-friendly than Windows Update ever was.
Not having a high-speed connection will be limiting with Windows, Linux, and any OS, os that is a different issue.
Finally, once you have something installed, you are not **required** to update it. And you can choose which updates to accept.
Nobody requires an update but everyone will want the latest.Would I stick to knoppix 3.1 then? Windows requires updates what with all the vulnerabilities,etc. But there are magazines that include cds that contain these updates. There are NO linux magazines here in my country!
You said "easier" why can't I have a debian update of Openoffice?
It is all "easier" if you have a high speed connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethics
free cds for ubuntu, i just put it on a laptop and it detected everything, sound,video the works.
I do have Ubuntu and Kubunto 6.06 but now there is a new Ubuntu 6.06.x. And it does not detect my laptop modem.
DSL is not for me as it does not include at least the kernel headers in order for me to compile my laptop modem drivers.
Quote:
Is there not some sort of government/educational learning facility like a library/college etc that you could download it at and burn to a cd?.
Yes actually that is where I got my Kanotix but now they have restricted the downloads because of network problems so bye bye for me!

What am I geting at here? I am suggesting that with each new version of distro like DSL there should also be new drivers available for us to download. Kanotix has all I need but it is now beyond my reach. I can get DSL but I need the modem drivers.

Last edited by bongski55; 08-18-2006 at 11:45 AM.
 
Old 08-18-2006, 12:14 PM   #7
pixellany
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Quote:
Windows requires updates what with all the vulnerabilities,etc. But there are magazines that include cds that contain these updates.
From the MS perspective, they love updates, becuase it is how they slip in little gems like Windows Genuine Advantage. How many MS updates add functionality?


Quote:
You said "easier" why can't I have a debian update of Openoffice?
I dont' understand. The repositories will have updates---but not necessarily the **very latest**. You can always install the latest directly.

Tell us exactly where you are and someone may have more clever ideas....
 
Old 08-18-2006, 11:21 PM   #8
bongski55
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I am in Oman
 
Old 08-18-2006, 11:36 PM   #9
Tinkster
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And how is downloading 12MB of windows patches cheaper in Oman than
downloading 12MB of debian patches? I still don't see the point that
you were trying to make in your initial post.



Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-19-2006, 06:06 AM   #10
bongski55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkster
And how is downloading 12MB of windows patches cheaper in Oman than
downloading 12MB of debian patches? I still don't see the point that
you were trying to make in your initial post.



Cheers,
Tink
Please don't generalize,I am not an expert of these.All I do before was to download the whole cd for new versions which I can't do now.I have tried aptget update also but was intimidated by the lot of messages that came out on the console.

ok windows has for example an update of 5mb for Firefox for example.I can just click on "check for updates" in firefox and only the necessary files are updated-not the whole 5mb firefox download.
In debian distro that I am using there is no facility to update firefox. I complained about this in firefox and was told to contact the author of the distro.Isn't this process complicated? Please guide me perhaps I am missing something.
 
Old 08-19-2006, 02:27 PM   #11
robbbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me. Now you have to have broadband connection to do that.I cannot afford the cost of a broadband/high speed internet in my country. The alternative is to order the cd but then by the time the cd arrives there will be a new version of the distro.
My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many software companies do( in windows mostly). apget is really not practical for me at least.
One thing that's desirable for many users was a tool to downloading a selected package - all dependencies already included - on computer being connected via a fast line, burning it to CD, transfering it to a computer having a slow internet connection, and being able to install the package(s) from there.

Other than that, the situation equals on Windows and Linux: Either order a CD or download...

- I'm now referring to the original, basic problem: What you apparently need is to update specific programs, not just everything. Like updating Firefox, only. <-- To my understanding, that's the key question.

On Ubuntu / Debian:
Code:
sudo apt-get install firefox
If there is an update available, it will be installed by that. (Else there will be a message, "Firefox is already installed in the newest version.")
 
Old 08-19-2006, 03:31 PM   #12
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
Please don't generalize,I am not an expert of these.All I do before was to download the whole cd for new versions which I can't do now.I have tried aptget update also but was intimidated by the lot of messages that came out on the console.

ok windows has for example an update of 5mb for Firefox for example.I can just click on "check for updates" in firefox and only the necessary files are updated-not the whole 5mb firefox download.
In debian distro that I am using there is no facility to update firefox. I complained about this in firefox and was told to contact the author of the distro.Isn't this process complicated? Please guide me perhaps I am missing something.
Don't tell me off for generalising. I was going by the specs you gave.

You are generalising, however. You're taking one product, i.e. firefox under
windows, and have that as your example for windows being easier, and
you're using debian as a generic term for Linux. Under slackware, for
instance, you can download firefox individually, no sweat. And as far as
windows goes: firefox is not a windows component, it's not even a M$
product; how about the bazillion of required security fixes you need to
download with the unspeakable OS as well?


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-19-2006, 11:19 PM   #13
bongski55
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Tinkster,
I specifically posted on the newbie forum because I am that-a newbie even if I used linux for a long time.
I detect an arrogant tone in your reply.If you want me to shut up please tell me directly.Or as a moderator you can just delete my post.
anyway Thanks for replying to my post.
 
Old 08-20-2006, 12:59 AM   #14
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
Tinkster,
I specifically posted on the newbie forum because I am that-a newbie even if I used linux for a long time.
Happily accepted. But I still assume that you know that Firefox
is not a Windows off-spring, and that debian isn't identical to Linux.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
I detect an arrogant tone in your reply.If you want me to shut up please tell me directly.Or as a moderator you can just delete my post.
anyway Thanks for replying to my post.
Let's just say that the thread-title, the thumbs down icon and
the content together got me rather antsy about your statement,
and I think that you could put some more thought into what you
post. I don't feel an urge to delete your post, or to tell you to
shut-up. But please live with the consequences of what you're
saying, and don't assume that others know what you MEANT to
say.

There's a big difference between:
"I dislike the fact that to get a new version of firefox
debian by default will try to update the entire distribution"

and
":thumbs_down: Linux Becoming Very Advanced for New Users"
"I am writing this to comment that it is increasingly difficult to get
an update of the distro of choice for newbies like me."
"My suggestion is to go for downloadable updates like many
software companies do( in windows mostly)."


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 08-20-2006, 11:12 AM   #15
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bongski55
Tinkster,
I specifically posted on the newbie forum because I am that-a newbie even if I used linux for a long time.
I detect an arrogant tone in your reply.If you want me to shut up please tell me directly.Or as a moderator you can just delete my post.
anyway Thanks for replying to my post.
Tinkster is one of the most patient and helpful people around here. I'm sorry, but you set the tone in your original post.
 
  


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