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Old 03-22-2004, 10:22 PM   #1
mgevans
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Lindows - MAKE and BinUtils


PLEASE - i'm a total newbie to the linux world. I'm a 15 year vet of DOS/windows and have done some lite programming (remember pascal?). Looking to become familiar w/ linux!! Please correct me on the following if I make a fool of myself - thanks!

OK - so i found the nVidia audio drivers for generic Linux and downloaded them. Now I need to compile them using MAKE (?is compile the right word?) for my LINDOWS (business reasons, please don't flame for my choosing this distro). Lindows doesn't seem to come with MAKE. So now I go looking for it, but cannot find it??

I'm not familiar enough with BinUtils (downloaded 2.14 but it also need to be compiled??) or APT-GET to know if that is where I can get MAKE. Please help!

thanks ever so kindly!
Michael

 
Old 03-22-2004, 11:25 PM   #2
witeshark
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There is a Lindows forum here, they may be quicker to help you isn't there a aptget command? Just a guess.

Last edited by witeshark; 03-22-2004 at 11:41 PM.
 
Old 03-22-2004, 11:27 PM   #3
liamoboyle
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First up, linux is case sensitive in pretty much everything - make is different from Make is different from mAke and so on. So you're going to need "make", rather than "MAKE".

As far as I know, lindows comes with apt-get installed, but possibly not configured. Try typing "apt-get update" into a console and see what happens. If it doesn't give error messages, you've probably got a good config.

If not - show me the problems.

If all is good, then type "apt-get install make". However, if you're going to be compiling drivers, you'll probably want a good C compiler, so also run "apt-get install gcc". THis should have you up and running w/luck
 
Old 03-23-2004, 07:41 AM   #4
mgevans
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thanks for the input. I understand about case sentivity I just wanted the words to stand out.

I have done an apt-get update w/out error.

I'll try the "install make" and "install gcc" tonight.
 
Old 03-23-2004, 09:21 PM   #5
mgevans
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OK - when I tried "apt-get install make" i recieve:

Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package make

So i found this thread that seems to help:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...04/02/3/130093
Apparently I needed to point my apt-get to another URL because the lindows apt-get is partially disabled (likely to get people to run their click-'n'-run)

Any how, can someone point me to a brief history of the "apt-get / gcc compile / make" process for downloading and installing programs? Here is what I think I understand thus far:
There are different distributions of Linux
Each distribution edits the 'kernel' differently
*free* programs can be gotten via apt-get
Programs to be installed need to be compiled to match the linux distro using gcc unless already done for you
--i'm still not sure what "make" is for?

Please correct/add-to the above information or feel free to point out a URL for more info (please not the technical put-me-to-sleep stuff yet! )

thanks!!!
Michael
 
Old 03-23-2004, 09:25 PM   #6
mgevans
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oh crud - when 'loading' the gcc, i'm getting a "kernel link failure info" message about older kernels and newer version of binutils.

It says a work-around is to "edit the linker script for your architecture e.g. arch/i386/vmlinux.lds and remove the '*(.text.exit)' entry from the DISCARD line.

what does this mean!!!?? ARGH


(side note: this is why I cannot promote linux to my customers yet )
 
Old 03-23-2004, 09:26 PM   #7
mgevans
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OK - gcc installed (2.95.4-14) and make installed (3.79.1-14)

now I will try to install the nVidia drivers (audio and video)
 
Old 03-23-2004, 10:13 PM   #8
mgevans
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OK - not having any luck - getting the following when trying to 'make' the rpm from nVidia:

In file included from nvnet.c:21:
nvnet.h:20: linux/module.h: No such file or directory
nvnet.h:21: linux/config.h: No such file or directory
nvnet.h:22: linux/kernel.h: No such file or directory
(about 15 more of those lines)
nvnet.c:40: parse error
nvnet.c:1284: parse error
make[1]: *** [nvnet.o] Error 1

then back to my prompt - IDEAS???
 
Old 03-23-2004, 11:09 PM   #9
liamoboyle
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It sounds like you've made some good progress here

OK, what's happening here is that the drivers need to link against some of the source files for the linux kernel... I'm pretty sure that lindows won't have shipped with kernel source., which is kind of inconvenient. You can download the kernels for free, but I'm sure that you don't want to go through the effort of compiling a new kernel. We'll just to a quick search and see if they _have_ hidden them somewhere for you. To do a search, follow the following instructions -

su -
[ enter root password ]
updatedb
locate module.h

Updatedb indexes all the files on your system, and will take a while. This is normally down nightly by a scheduled job (on debian anyway) but running it now makes sure it's completely up to date. Locate then searched the index for the file module.h, the first file that it's looking for.

Please show me the output from the above and we'll take it from there. Unfortunately I'm just leaving work for the day, so I won't be able to answer until tomorrow NZ time, about 15 hours away

Oh, also show me the output from running /bin/uname! It'll help us if we don't find the kernel source already installed - hint, try running 'man apt-get' and 'man apt-cache' to learn about the apt-get system. You can use it to grab the kernel source if we can't find it.
 
Old 03-24-2004, 09:57 AM   #10
mgevans
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liamoboyle

sounds like great information - i'll will try to locate the kernel information tonight.

Is the potential to download the Kernel all due to the in part to the GNU license? i.e. even if the kernal files are not readily available, they must be made available via download because it is part of GNU?

thanks!
Michael
 
Old 03-24-2004, 10:13 AM   #11
Komakino
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To answer the question about 'what is make' - make is a tool used to take the hassel out of compiling source code. If, for example I had a program that created several shared object files and then combined them to form an executable, I would need to run the compiler several times - first to build the object files, then to combine them (link them) into the finished program. With make a program author can create a Makefile which contains all the rules necessary for the compiler (and other tools such as the linker) to do this automatically and save the person building the program from having to type each stage of the process out by hand.
 
Old 03-24-2004, 10:16 AM   #12
Komakino
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Oh and as for the bit about distributions editting the kernel differently...most distros won't edit the kernel at all. They may build a kernel with slightly different options compiled in to other distros (for example one distro might include NTFS support by default, another might miss it out), but the difference between distros is usually the packages and utilities included, for example RedHat include a lot of their own configuration utilities and include both KDE and Gnome whereas another distro may decide that both Gnome and KDE are too bloated and use WindowMaker as their default window manager.
 
Old 03-24-2004, 12:13 PM   #13
mgevans
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Great! It is all starting to come together now. I now see the relationship between running 'make', the makefiles that come with the downloaded code, and the missing files (.h files from the kernel).

Ah. Good to know about the kernel. So these utilities etc, those are like the classic DLL's and system files and pre-installed drivers from Windows (i.e. helper files). thus leaving the kernel itself to be updated every long once in a while by Mr. Torvalds (sp?) and team.

--------

So the question remains: if most of the kernels are the same, why must we re-compile (make) some executables for each distro? Is it because of the difference in the helper (options/utils) that come with each distro?
In the windows world we download the executable, then we update the supporting apps (directX, MDAC etc etc) if necessary. Sounds like this is backwards were we would have versions of supporting apps, then make the executables to match???
 
Old 03-24-2004, 01:02 PM   #14
Komakino
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Quote:
Originally posted by mgevans
...
So the question remains: if most of the kernels are the same, why must we re-compile (make) some executables for each distro? Is it because of the difference in the helper (options/utils) that come with each distro?
In the windows world we download the executable, then we update the supporting apps (directX, MDAC etc etc) if necessary. Sounds like this is backwards were we would have versions of supporting apps, then make the executables to match???
Because we compile programs against the particular versions of libraries we have installed on our system. Also, the location of those libraries and any supporting binaries is not constant in the linux world (some could be in /usr/bin on one system, /usr/local/bin on another and /opt/bin on another). Also, Linux is used on many different architectures - intel x86 machines, sparc machines, ppc machines, motorola 68000 machines, etc, etc... so binaries are not compatible between architectures because of different instruction sets, the fact that some are bigendian and some are little endian (the difference being which end of the byte indicates the low bit and which the high bit). In short compilation for your own particular circumstance is easier most of the time.
 
Old 03-24-2004, 02:18 PM   #15
liamoboyle
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Anything that needs to act as a driver needs to link against the kernel source, as all modules that get inserted in (and video drivers are one of these) need to state that they connect to the correct version. kernel.h allows it to get this, module.h tells it what to link against to become a module (I think).

Most software will not require linking against the kernel, although a lot will require some additional code libraries to be installed (normally as simple as apt-get install libxxx-dev or suchlike).
 
  


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