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Old 10-12-2002, 04:34 PM   #1
magis
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Lindows is tempting me !


Been reading some pretty nice articles on this new OS and have decided to give it a roll.

First off, i am a Linux newbie, but with the capacity to learn, ( i hope )

My first problem is how i should install lindows on my present configuration:

Got two hard drives, both 40 giggers.

The first HD C: has Win98 installed, Fat 32.
The second HD F: has Win XP installed with NTFS.

Creating new partitions on either is not a problem as i have space to spare on both. But where would i install Lindows?

I presently use the XP boot loader to boot into either OS.

Grateful for any feedback on this one, before i decide to buy.

Many thanks
 
Old 10-12-2002, 04:49 PM   #2
jhorvath
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feedback: I wouldn't buy it...that's just me tho', especially if you're gonna have windows around anyway....? I personally use linux to use linux, not to run windows apps. Though the choice and money are yours.

As far as the partitioning and placement goes I wouldn't think that it would matter where it went as long as the boot loader knows where to look...(e.g...the recycle bin :P j/k). whether or not there is something to gain from putting it on one HD instead of the other i don't know...maybe someone else can elaborate?

Last edited by jhorvath; 10-12-2002 at 04:54 PM.
 
Old 10-12-2002, 05:33 PM   #3
marktaff
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Microsoft OS's have historically not played well with non-MS OS's (like Linux).

Before you do anything, be prepared to reformat your drives, if required (backup your files!!) Things can go badly with _any_ OS installation, so do safegard your personal files.

Generally speaking, this will be easier if you keep all your windows OS's on one drive, and linux on the other.

While I've dual-booted many systems, I have never don so with WinXP or Lindows. Try and find someone who has already done it (check out the Lindows site, or google for `Lindows Windows dual boot`).

In short, do your homework, and be prepared for Murphy.

--Mark
 
Old 10-12-2002, 05:52 PM   #4
magis
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Had a look on the lindows site and the faq's and found this:

Microsoft Windows 95, Microsoft Windows NT, Microsoft Windows XP and Microsoft Windows 2000 with an NTFS file system*
At this time, LindowsOS will not install side-by-side with these versions of Microsoft Windows or any version of Microsoft Windows running the NTFS file system (VFAT is required.) LindowsOS can run on these computers, but it would need to take over the entire hard drive and you'd lose Microsoft Windows and all files on the machine, as explained in Option 1 above.

*You can check your Microsoft Windows 2000 file system type (VFAT or NTFS) in Microsoft Windows by opening My Computer, and then right clicking on your hard drive and selecting properties. VFAT file systems will say either "FAT 16" or "FAT 32" while an NTFS file system will say "NTFS." LindowsOS can not operate side-by-side with Microsoft Windows if your drive is using the NTFS file system.

I am assuming that as i have the 2nd HD as NTFS, thats a no go but the 1st HD is fat32, so would i be able to install it on a partition there, but will it see the NTFS XP OS and be able to boot it?
 
Old 10-12-2002, 06:26 PM   #5
marktaff
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Linux generally can't read an NTFS formatted drive. There is some experimental support in some newer kernals, but I wouldn't bank on it.

The solution it generally to have a small `swap` drive; that is a drive that is formatted as vfat that can be accessed by both windows and linux to transer files from one OS to the other. On one of my boxes, I use a 128MB swap drive (I call it "WinLinSW").

MS os's generally play well together in a dual boot. So investigate putting all your MS os's on one drive (IDE 0,0), and leave your second drive (likely IDE 0, 1) for linux/Lindows.

The investigate "Grub", a linux bootloader. With newer versions of Grub, you should be able make the os's play together, so long as you keep MS os's on one drive, and *nix os's on another drive.

You should also be able to make a Grub boot flopppy. This would allow you to boot from the floppy into grub, which would be configured to the give you the option of booting into Lindows on IDE 0,1 or Windows on IDE 0,0. If you choose windows, the XP bootloader should then give you a choice of the available MS os's to load. Booting _without_ the bootdisk would bring up the XP bootloader only.

The above _should_ work, but do your own research.

Note on IDE notation: IDE a, b = IDE channel, device. So IDE 0,0 is the first IDE channel, and the first device (these are 0-based). IDE 0,1 is ist channell, second device. IDE 1,0 is 2nd channel, ist device, IDE 1,1 is 2nd channel, 2nd device. That is all there is in most pc's, unless you have an IDE expansion card.

Also, generally, do not put two hard drives on the same channel, and make the drive the master(device 0) on that channel. Reason is if an IDE device fails, the whole channel may go dead. But if you set it up this way, you may still be able to access for master devices (your hard disks).

--Mark
 
Old 10-12-2002, 07:16 PM   #6
magis
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Mark,

thanks for your detailed repy:

I am not to sure about what you mean by setting up a separate swap file (vfat) whatever that is, like a bit more on that if possible.

Makes sense if i put both MS os's on the 1st HD but would not the linux bootloader see the other two MS OS's and give me the option of the three to boot?

Again thanks
 
Old 10-12-2002, 07:40 PM   #7
marktaff
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Yes, Grub _should_ give you the option of booting as many differrent os's as you want. The XP bootloader on the other hand will likely only give you MS choices.

As for the `swap` drive (not file), I mean that when you partition your drives, create a partition about 128MB (whatever size you think will work best for you) and format that fartition as vfat. That way, both MS os's and *nix os's will be able to read and write to that partition.

You can then use this partition as a place to store the files you need access to from both os's, or think of it as a temp storage spot for files, much like a clipboard.

For example, on one of my machines, I keep all my SQL files on my WinLinSW partition, so I can access the files from windows or linux.

Also, do not confuse this with the `swap` partition (formatted as swap) that linux uses for memory swap (MS uses a file, linux uses a separate partition).

Partitioning your drives is not hard, but you should plan carefully and mull it over a bit before you do it. Otherwise you will soon find yourself repeating the process over again because you didn't predict your needs well enough.

For example, the linux swap drive (for memory, formatted as type swap) should, as a rule, be twice as large as the RAM you have in the box. So you have 128MB RAM, so you make your swap 256MB. Then what if you get another 128MB RAM? Now you need to re-partition to increase your swap partition to 512MB.

The point is, plan your partitioning carefully. Consider not just your needs right now, but also down the road a spell.

--Mark
 
Old 10-13-2002, 12:04 AM   #8
mydini
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My advise to newbies is try Mandrake 9.0. I have just installed it and it's great. I am a newbie too, although I have been fiddling with various distros, all good, but mandy 9 is easy setup, had no problems with samba connections to my wife win 2000 box.
Means that you can be up and running...then learn how to modify.
 
Old 10-13-2002, 12:21 AM   #9
marktaff
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Mandrake also abides by the GNU GPL, whereas Lindows is clearly in violation of the law (Lindows should be no-cost, or at most a fee for distribution, as it is built on GPL'ed code).

--Mark
 
Old 10-13-2002, 01:44 AM   #10
neo77777
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Quote:
Lindows should be no-cost, or at most a fee for distribution, as it is built on GPL'ed code
Gotta disagree, yes, sure Lindows is a violation of GPL but in quite different perspective, it is a binary distribution, meaning that there's no way for you to see what's ticking inside, as for no-cost - GPL states that you might charge for GPL code as long as GPL license appears and the code is freely available for developers and users to temper with it.
Regarding other points in this thread, linux can read NTFS, the experimential support is only for write permissions to NTFS as it is concidered dangerous: the reason behind it - NTFS support kernel developer team has reverse-engineered the mimics of NTFS because, as you can guess, microsloth won't provide a tiny bit of their NTFS implemetation.
As for original post, Lindows might sound temting, and I bet they provide the seemless way for new linux users to adapt to this great Operating System, but there are cavets as well, they state that Lindows can't co-exist with NTFS aloneside - if you pick any other distribution you won't even see a littlest notice similar to this - Linux co-exists with many types of filesystems, because a truely linux distribution comes with a full kernel source that you can tweak to your liking, and as for Lindows being a binary distribution the kernel is compiled by Lindows team, and the code is never provided for it, which stinks all the way up to Redmond.
So unless you are a defined AOL user who must run MSOffice on his/her linux install, and doesn't want to put a little effort to make things fit together you should be looking for something else, like .... Mandrake. I am not accosiated with Mandrake by any means, but in my humble opinion it is a very friendly true linux distribution, which is available for free (as in beer) download from a ftp mirror near your, plus it provides flexible transition from windows without frame to a linux house with all its luxuary. Check it out at http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/ , and if decide to put some money into a boxed set with Manuals and limited tech support from Mandrake you'd know that your money are going for a good cause, and they are not end up in the pocket of former mp3.com chief who might tomorrow decide to get involved in Formula One racing with a VW Beetle.
Just my 5 bucks.

Last edited by neo77777; 10-13-2002 at 01:50 AM.
 
Old 10-13-2002, 02:05 AM   #11
MasterC
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5 bucks, cool. Yeah I'd say it's quite a bit more than 2 cents, but 5 bux!

And I started to get lost with the last sentence, but I seem to be getting lost quite a bit tonight, and too easily as well.

Cool
 
Old 10-13-2002, 04:59 AM   #12
tincat2
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sounds like you're getting ready to add a lot of aggravation to your life for no apparent gain-if you want linux,get linux - if you can't use any but the lindows proprietary kernel, it's not linux. i realize that the lindows people are targeting a market segment with what they feel is a viable economic strategy, but what does that really have to do with you and what you want to do? i'm assuming here that at least part of what you want to do is to become familiar with and to use linux as an operating system on some hardware that you use to do some things that you either like to do or need to do. well, i say come on over- give your money and time to a distro like mandrake(probably the best easy install quick configure, though by no means the only good distro) and before you know it, you'll be dumping windows and wondering how long until the next major kernel release.
more to the point here, be sure you have checked things out thoroughly before you do all the rearranging you are contemplating-i have read, for example, that windows, in particular windows xp ntfs must go on the first physical harddrive of a system and that the windows bootloader will write to the mbr no matter what-something like you propose might necessitate win98 and winxp(i think i'd forget ntfs, i had it and i don't see where for my purposes it did anything but complicate matters-do fat32) on the first harddrive along with a small boot partition from which lilo can boot linux on your second harddrive(i don't know the particulars but a search will turn them up as well as correct any misunderstandings i am guilty of perpetuating here.) good luck and come back, these guys are a real resource- oh yeah, back up what you want to keep, by all means.
 
Old 10-13-2002, 05:35 AM   #13
magis
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Well there's food for thought.!

The only real reason i have been contemplating Lindows, is that my past attempts with Linux have all been miserable failures.

Normally i do a great deal of research before attempting anything as daunting as a linux install and i came across a varied school of thought.

Mandrake has always been recommended as the easiest install, but not by all. Another school of thought last year, was to install Slackware 8.1 if i recall. The reason being that is is the purest way to understanding linux. Whatever, Linux still did not operate on my system.

Past installs of linux have gone to various degrees, good or bad. The problem i had with all installs of linux was my internet connection. I use a USB DSL modem connection, and believe me trying to configure that little beauty was beyond me, and quiet a few others.

Hence my interest in Lindows.

I agree with what has been posted above re: Linux and would truly like to have it installed and connected. But that for now does not seem possible.

The posts above have got me thinking again and i may now delay any decision of a linux install, Lindows included.

I thank you all for your input, very much appreciated.

 
Old 10-13-2002, 10:16 AM   #14
burk
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If you want to try linux, I'd partition off 5-10gb on my fat32 drive and install a copy of Mandrake 9.0. It ships with kernel 2.4.19 which is supposed to have pretty good USB support. You will be able to read and write files to the fat32 and read (not write) files on your NTFS drive. There are a number of threads in LQ on making the bootloaders play well together. In general though if you use the XP bootloader you will have to boot linux from a boot disk if you use lilo or grub you should be able to boot to any of the three. Back up anything you can't live without and give it a try. As previously mentioned I'm not associated with Mandrake, but I've tried a number of distros and Mandy always seems to install and configure the easiest.
 
  


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