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Old 10-08-2003, 02:54 AM   #1
jupitereye
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
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Angry LILO, I can't get it to work, and I have tried!


Hello. I have been slowly reading a little bit at a time and trying to get a feel for Linux. There is so much to learn.

I was operating the Knoppix Live CD Boot, and I like Knoppix and KDE so well that, after asking others and reading a little, I decided that it would be a good choice to put on my hard drive until I was versed well enough to install Gentoo via the full three step process.

Well, I tried getting a multi-boot Windows program to work, but it did not want to do things as I did.

I don't have money, no money hardly. If I did then I would have a stand alone system for Knoppix. So I had to opt for multi boot.

So, after trying other things, I decided to set up partitions and do formats straight through Knoppix Linux and it worked, after some clumsiness on my part, except, well, LILO won't boot into Windows XP Pro now, no matter that I have made the change in the LILO.conf file for XP at the drive that it appears Linux wants to assign it to.

I was getting help in another forum, but the guys there gave up on me, it seems. I feel so alone and so very cold and the lights are out (well, it isn't as traumatic as needing my mommy, but it still sux the big one) and I need y'all's help BAD, pretty please!
 
Old 10-08-2003, 03:00 AM   #2
Demonbane
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Can you give a little more information? like how your partitions are laid out, where xp and knoppix are installed, your lilo.conf etc?
 
Old 10-08-2003, 03:49 AM   #3
jupitereye
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
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Just a sec
 
Old 10-08-2003, 04:20 AM   #4
jupitereye
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
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The facts:

I am running an old IWill BS-100 BX based motherboard with the Adaptec AIC-7890 (IIRC) Dual Channel UW SCSI controller. There is a 550 PIII and 512M RAM. I am running 2 IDE HDs, 2 SCSI internal HDs, 1 SCSI external HD, & 2 IDE CD-Burners (the DVD ROM died).

Here is the configuration:

A Ultra-160 SCSI 18.1 IBM on CH B, ID 6 seen in WinXP as drive C, in Knoppix as sdc1. Only WindowsXP is on it and it is the bootup drive running NTFS. Currently, the only way to get into Windows XP is to set the SCSI BIOS to see it as the bootup drive, but I don't set it that way for LILO, see below...

A Virtual drive on the above drive, set as a primary partition as well, seen as drive J, I think, in Windows, and as drive sdc2 in Knoppix running FAT32.

A UW SCSI 3.2 Gig Quantum on CH A, ID 5 not seen in WinXP but seen in Knoppix as sdb1. Knoppix (bootup) is on it, as well as a swap partition. It *is* set up in the SCSI BIOS *as* the bootup SCSI HD when I am trying to use LILO or just giving up and using LILO to go into Knoppix Linux

A Swap File Virtual Drive to the above seen only in Knoppix as unknown, don't think that it is visible on the desktop, is it?

A Removable Ultra SCSI Winchester Technology 230M HD, external, that isn't used much. Windows sees it as drive E IIRC and Knoppix sees it, a worrisome thing, as sda1. It is on CH A, ID 4.

An IDE ATA-100 HD, 82 Gig IBM, booting as Primary Master in System BIOS and set up NTFS and used for WinXP for Archiving and Programs, NOT bootup. Windows sees it as drive D, knoppix as hda1.

An IDE ATA-33 IIRC, 4.3 Gig WD HD for Linux programs and archiving only, seen in Knoppix only, as hdc1. It boots as Secondary Master in System BIOS and is formatted Linux type 3

Two CD Burners, each an ATAPI IDE device on the respective Primary and Secondary Slave Channels, both for both OSs, obviously, since both see them.

All partitions primary IIRC. The Tiny Virtual drive on the Windows XP bootup drive is in the front or starting part of the drive, in case that might be an issue.

I will post this and next post the LILO. conf file...
 
Old 10-08-2003, 04:23 AM   #5
jupitereye
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Registered: Oct 2003
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The LILO.Conf file

Here is the LILO.conf file:



# /etc/lilo.conf - See: `lilo(8)' and `lilo.conf(5)',
# --------------- `install-mbr(8)', `/usr/share/doc/lilo/',
# and `/usr/share/doc/mbr/'.

# +---------------------------------------------------------------+
# | !! Reminder !! |
# | |
# | Don't forget to run `lilo' after you make changes to this |
# | conffile, `/boot/bootmess.txt', or install a new kernel. The |
# | computer will most likely fail to boot if a kernel-image |
# | post-install script or you don't remember to run `lilo'. |
# | |
# +---------------------------------------------------------------+

# Support LBA for large hard disks.
#
lba32

# Overrides the default mapping between harddisk names and the BIOS'
# harddisk order. Use with caution.
#disk=/dev/hde
# bios=0x81

#disk=/dev/sda
# bios=0x80

# Specifies the boot device. This is where Lilo installs its boot
# block. It can be either a partition, or the raw device, in which
# case it installs in the MBR, and will overwrite the current MBR.
#
boot=/dev/sdb

# Specifies the device that should be mounted as root. (`/')
#
root=/dev/sdb1

# Enable map compaction:
# Tries to merge read requests for adjacent sectors into a single
# read request. This drastically reduces load time and keeps the
# map smaller. Using `compact' is especially recommended when
# booting from a floppy disk. It is disabled here by default
# because it doesn't always work.
#
# compact

# Installs the specified file as the new boot sector
# You have the choice between: bmp, compat, menu and text
# Look in /boot/ and in lilo.conf(5) manpage for details
#
install=/boot/boot-menu.b

# Specifies the location of the map file
#
map=/boot/map

# You can set a password here, and uncomment the `restricted' lines
# in the image definitions below to make it so that a password must
# be typed to boot anything but a default configuration. If a
# command line is given, other than one specified by an `append'
# statement in `lilo.conf', the password will be required, but a
# standard default boot will not require one.
#
# This will, for instance, prevent anyone with access to the
# console from booting with something like `Linux init=/bin/sh',
# and thus becoming `root' without proper authorization.
#
# Note that if you really need this type of security, you will
# likely also want to use `install-mbr' to reconfigure the MBR
# program, as well as set up your BIOS to disallow booting from
# removable disk or CD-ROM, then put a password on getting into the
# BIOS configuration as well. Please RTFM `install-mbr(8)'.
#
# password=tatercounter2000

# Specifies the number of deciseconds (0.1 seconds) LILO should
# wait before booting the first image.
#
delay=20

# You can put a customized boot message up if you like. If you use
# `prompt', and this computer may need to reboot unattended, you
# must specify a `timeout', or it will sit there forever waiting
# for a keypress. `single-key' goes with the `alias' lines in the
# `image' configurations below. eg: You can press `1' to boot
# `Linux', `2' to boot `LinuxOLD', if you uncomment the `alias'.
#
# message=/boot/bootmess.txt
prompt
timeout=150
# prompt
# single-key
# delay=100
# timeout=100

# Kernel command line options that apply to all installed images go
# here. See: The `boot-prompt-HOWO' and `kernel-parameters.txt' in
# the Linux kernel `Documentation' directory.
## /etc/lilo.conf - See: `lilo(8)' and `lilo.conf(5)',
# --------------- `install-mbr(8)', `/usr/share/doc/lilo/',
# and `/usr/share/doc/mbr/'.

# +---------------------------------------------------------------+
# | !! Reminder !! |
# | |
# | Don't forget to run `lilo' after you make changes to this |
# | conffile, `/boot/bootmess.txt', or install a new kernel. The |
# | computer will most likely fail to boot if a kernel-image |
# | post-install script or you don't remember to run `lilo'. |
# | |
# +---------------------------------------------------------------+

# Support LBA for large hard disks.
#
lba32

# Overrides the default mapping between harddisk names and the BIOS'
# harddisk order. Use with caution.
#disk=/dev/hde
# bios=0x81

#disk=/dev/sda
# bios=0x80

# Specifies the boot device. This is where Lilo installs its boot
# block. It can be either a partition, or the raw device, in which
# case it installs in the MBR, and will overwrite the current MBR.
#
boot=/dev/sdb

# Specifies the device that should be mounted as root. (`/')
#
root=/dev/sdb1

# Enable map compaction:
# Tries to merge read requests for adjacent sectors into a single
# read request. This drastically reduces load time and keeps the
# map smaller. Using `compact' is especially recommended when
# booting from a floppy disk. It is disabled here by default
# because it doesn't always work.
#
# compact

# Installs the specified file as the new boot sector
# You have the choice between: bmp, compat, menu and text
# Look in /boot/ and in lilo.conf(5) manpage for details
#
install=/boot/boot-menu.b

# Specifies the location of the map file
#
map=/boot/map

# You can set a password here, and uncomment the `restricted' lines
# in the image definitions below to make it so that a password must
# be typed to boot anything but a default configuration. If a
# command line is given, other than one specified by an `append'
# statement in `lilo.conf', the password will be required, but a
# standard default boot will not require one.
#
# This will, for instance, prevent anyone with access to the
# console from booting with something like `Linux init=/bin/sh',
# and thus becoming `root' without proper authorization.
#
# Note that if you really need this type of security, you will
# likely also want to use `install-mbr' to reconfigure the MBR
# program, as well as set up your BIOS to disallow booting from
# removable disk or CD-ROM, then put a password on getting into the
# BIOS configuration as well. Please RTFM `install-mbr(8)'.
#
# password=tatercounter2000

# Specifies the number of deciseconds (0.1 seconds) LILO should
# wait before booting the first image.
#
delay=20

# You can put a customized boot message up if you like. If you use
# `prompt', and this computer may need to reboot unattended, you
# must specify a `timeout', or it will sit there forever waiting
# for a keypress. `single-key' goes with the `alias' lines in the
# `image' configurations below. eg: You can press `1' to boot
# `Linux', `2' to boot `LinuxOLD', if you uncomment the `alias'.
#
# message=/boot/bootmess.txt
prompt
timeout=150
# prompt
# single-key
# delay=100
# timeout=100

# Kernel command line options that apply to all installed images go
# here. See: The `boot-prompt-HOWO' and `kernel-parameters.txt' in
# the Linux kernel `Documentation' directory.
#
# append=""
append="hda=scsi hdb=scsi hdc=scsi hdd=scsi hde=scsi hdf=scsi hdg=scsi hdh=scsi apm=power-off nomce"

# Boot up Linux by default.
#
default=Linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-xfs
label=Linux
initrd=/boot/initrd.gz
read-only
# restricted
# alias=1

image=/vmlinuz.old
label=LinuxOLD
read-only
optional
# restricted
# alias=2

# If you have another OS on this machine to boot, you can uncomment the
# following lines, changing the device name on the `other' line to
# where your other OS' partition is.
#
# other=/dev/hda4
# label=HURD
# restricted
# alias=3
# other=/dev/sda1
# label="Windows(sda1)"

# other=/dev/sdc1
# label="WinNT(sdc1)"

# other=/dev/sdc2
# label="Windows(sdc2)"

# other=/dev/hda1
# label="WinNT(hda1)"

other=/dev/sdc1
label=xp
# append=""
append="hda=scsi hdb=scsi hdc=scsi hdd=scsi hde=scsi hdf=scsi hdg=scsi hdh=scsi apm=power-off nomce"

# Boot up Linux by default.
#
default=Linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-xfs
label=Linux
initrd=/boot/initrd.gz
read-only
# restricted
# alias=1

image=/vmlinuz.old
label=LinuxOLD
read-only
optional
# restricted
# alias=2

# If you have another OS on this machine to boot, you can uncomment the
# following lines, changing the device name on the `other' line to
# where your other OS' partition is.
#
# other=/dev/hda4
# label=HURD
# restricted
# alias=3
# other=/dev/sda1
# label="Windows(sda1)"

# other=/dev/sdc1
# label="WinNT(sdc1)"

# other=/dev/sdc2
# label="Windows(sdc2)"

# other=/dev/hda1
# label="WinNT(hda1)"

other=/dev/sdc1
label=xp
 
Old 10-08-2003, 10:57 PM   #6
jupitereye
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
Posts: 8

Original Poster
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Is there anyone there who can help me on this?

Is there anyone who can try to help me?
 
Old 10-09-2003, 02:10 AM   #7
Demonbane
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Distribution: Gentoo
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k first clean up lilo.conf so it doesnt look as confusing and just have the below:

#start of lilo.conf
lba32
delay=20
prompt
timeout=150
install=/boot/boot-menu.b
map=/boot/map
boot=/dev/sdb
root=/dev/sdb1

default=Linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-xfs
label=Linux
initrd=/boot/initrd.gz
read-only
# restricted
# alias=1

image=/vmlinuz.old
label=LinuxOLD
read-only
optional

other=/dev/sdc1
label=xp
#end of lilo.conf

run lilo, then reboot and see if you can boot into xp
if not try adding

disk=/dev/sdb
bios=0x80

disk=/dev/sdc
bios=0x81

disk=/dev/sda
bios=0x82

dont forget to run lilo again after you made modifications, also make sure that you have a working bootdisk so in case something stuffs up you can still boot into linux.
 
Old 10-09-2003, 11:50 AM   #8
jupitereye
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
Posts: 8

Original Poster
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going to try, but I am taking a last look at system commander, I am also concerned that system commander had messed with the MBR.

I am just now learning *about* this stuff, but *that* is why I am here, I am using knoppix because I know I need to learn.

I would like to understand this MBR concept. Is there but only one MBR per computer? If so, what happens when a new OS loads?

How is a MBR different than a hard ware file table such as NTFS/FAT/ext3?

Thanks for your help so far!
 
Old 10-09-2003, 03:08 PM   #9
Demonbane
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Distribution: Gentoo
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The MBR is a piece of information on the first sector of any disk, it contains a partition table and also a piece of code that loads the bootsector record of a partition, and in turn the bootsector record loads the rest of the operating system. What's important is the MBR of the first boot device you set in bios, beacuse this is the MBR that the bios will load when you PC boots up.

When you install windows, basically it installs a standard MBR that simply loads the bootsector record of the partition that's marked active. Doing a "fdisk /mbr" does not wipe out the MBR like many ppl think it does, instead it just restores that standard MBR.

As you have probably already guessed, the MBR can be much more versatile, when the right software, such as lilo/grub, is loaded into it. As a side note, when you install lilo/grub into the bootsector of a partition instead of the mbr, then it becomes the bootsector record, therefore for example I can have grub installed in MBR, 4 linux installations each inside thier own partition with lilo, and have grub chainload each of the lilo. Of course loading either of linux installation directly with grub is also possible.

However there are many problems associated with multibooting, especially when it comes to multiple OSes on multiple disks, for example the ordering of the harddrives in bios may not be the same as what lilo/grub thinks, which is why it doesn't always work like it should. But luckily lilo/grub is very powerful, there's many configurable options you can tweak to make it work on your system.

THe MBR contains a partition table which describes the layout of the partitions on a harddisk, their types, flags(active/Boot) etc but it doesn't have a direct relationship with a filesystem.

Last edited by Demonbane; 10-09-2003 at 03:14 PM.
 
Old 10-10-2003, 04:56 PM   #10
jupitereye
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Distribution: Currently Knoppix, and after I know enough it will be Gentoo
Posts: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 0
OK, so then my question is this, if LILO/GRUB can be loaded into the Master Boot Recond *or* the bootsector(s), how do I differentiate that when I look at the lilo.conf file?

How does one control it? Is this a question that calls for a complex answer?

Thank you, Demonbane!
 
Old 10-10-2003, 05:06 PM   #11
Skyline
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By looking at the

boot=........ directive

each time you run

/sbin/lilo

LILO looks at this directive and installs itself to what is specified here

ie

boot=/dev/hda

LILO would be installed on the MBR of the 1st hard drive

boot=/dev/hda2

LILO would be installed in the bootsector of the 2nd partiion on the "1st" hard drive.
 
  


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