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Old 03-17-2015, 07:05 AM   #1
bangnagr
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Is OpenIndiana good enough to learn Solaris?


Hi all,

I'm a new Redhat Linux administrator. Recently one of my colleague told me our company is joining hands with other company, so i better learn Solaris asap. I have no clue whats Solaris is like. A quick google search on Solaris returned results like DTrace, ZFS, Zones etc... which I have no clue about.

My job as linux admin is to install/manage services like dhcp/dns/vsftpd/ftp/samba/nfs/openldap etc and some form of user/backup/log/package management. What does solaris is used for? Is Solaris also used like dhcp/dns and other services? Because there are little or no tutorials on web on solaris's dhcp/dns service etc. All i see is dtrace, zfs, zones etc.

So pls help me understand:
  1. Can i download solaris-11.2 live cd, install in VirtualBox and get free updates.. say for 6 months/student trial.
  2. If i get updates, learning how to install and manage services like dhcp/dns/vsftp etc in solaris is good enough to start with?
  3. If i dont get free updates, and if i install OpenIndiana and learn the same stuff in it...is it same as working in solaris?
  4. Both Redhat and Solaris are used for same job in companies. Difference is just the choice between stability and technical support. Right?

Many Thanks
 
Old 03-17-2015, 01:52 PM   #2
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr View Post
Hi all,
I'm a new Redhat Linux administrator. Recently one of my colleague told me our company is joining hands with other company, so i better learn Solaris asap. I have no clue whats Solaris is like. A quick google search on Solaris returned results like DTrace, ZFS, Zones etc... which I have no clue about.
So did you research those terms, and find out what they mean??
Quote:
My job as linux admin is to install/manage services like dhcp/dns/vsftpd/ftp/samba/nfs/openldap etc and some form of user/backup/log/package management. What does solaris is used for? Is Solaris also used like dhcp/dns and other services? Because there are little or no tutorials on web on solaris's dhcp/dns service etc. All i see is dtrace, zfs, zones etc.
..and this is just like asking "What is Linux used for??" Solaris is an operating system...like Windows, Mac, Linux, or any other flavor of Unix. You can run whatever services you want on it.
Quote:
So pls help me understand:
Please read the LQ Rules about text-speak, and NOT using it.
Quote:
Can i download solaris-11.2 live cd, install in VirtualBox and get free updates.. say for 6 months/student trial.
Did you try looking on Oracle's website??? Specifically, the Solaris pages, where you can download it for free?? Where it tells you that it's a free operating system?
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/se...l-2245079.html
Quote:
If i get updates, learning how to install and manage services like dhcp/dns/vsftp etc in solaris is good enough to start with?
How would we know this??? If that's all you're going to use Solaris for, then yes, that's good enough to start with. If you're expected to manage a huge Solaris cluster with lots of specific Solaris things in place, then no, it wouldn't be. Find out what is going to be expected of you and your work with Solaris, and learn what you need to.
Quote:
If i dont get free updates, and if i install OpenIndiana and learn the same stuff in it...is it same as working in solaris?
Not the same, but close enough for SOME things...again, this depends on what you're expected to d.
Quote:
Both Redhat and Solaris are used for same job in companies. Difference is just the choice between stability and technical support. Right?
Wrong...both Red Hat and Solaris have commercial, pay-for support options. Both are stable, and both CAN do the same things, but Solaris has capabilities that Red Hat doesn't. Red Hat has some things that Solaris doesn't....use the right one for each situation.

There is a LOT of documentation about Solaris on Oracle's website...start there.
 
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:28 PM   #3
bangnagr
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@TB0ne, I had thought I'm posting my question in 'Newbie' section. If you are not interested in my question, just ignore it, let others answer. Questioning my questions is not helping at all. I'm highly disappointed by your answer, it goes against the spirit of community learning. Please don't kill others enthusiasm if you have nothing to share.

I usually don't respond back to veterans like you, but according to your logic, all servers are same (windows/linux/unix), all follow client–server model and all work in some form of network. So why bother at all? Just go home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
How would we know this???
Who are WE here. Please don't do that. Are you talking on behalf of all other members?

Many thanks
 
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:33 PM   #4
BeaStiE35
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Last edited by BeaStiE35; 03-17-2015 at 04:35 PM.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 07:41 AM   #5
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr View Post
@TB0ne, I had thought I'm posting my question in 'Newbie' section. ...
I've posted similar notes back to an OP basically saying "What have you done?" "Seems pretty obvious you never looked ..." stuff like that. TB0ne has a great history of being helpful to many, please consider giving them a "bye" or "pass"

Regarding Solaris, if you Google for it and ignore the references to a movie, you note the Solaris Operating System Wiki Page you'll learn that it is a Unix operating system originally developed by Sun Microsystems and now owned by Oracle Corporation. And ON THAT PAGE right in your face are the concepts of DTrace, and ZFS which you can read about to find that DTrace is a dynamic trace capability for kernel debug, and ZFS is a protective file system. And then you have to go down a few pages to find their concept of Branded Zones which is their version of what appears to be a virtual space to run an instance of Unix or Linux within.

Further, if visit the Oracle website and explore a very minor amount, you find a downloads tab where you find the page for Solaris and within that page is are more download links as well as a FAQ there are tabs there for Overview, Documentation, Downloads, Training, and more.

So what TB0ne may be saying...
What "I" am saying even if this wasn't TB0ne's message...
"You listened to a coworker's spouting of potential information, did a single-level web search on the term Solaris, discovered some highlighted features of that particular product, and then never took any time whatsoever to ascertain what those terms meant, whether or not they were even relevant to you and your company's case, and proceeded to ask questions which are highly available as answers in my humble opinion, especially given the facts that (1) you are a networked individual (2) working in an IT position (3) working with RedHat Linux (4) and have demonstrated the capability to actually be able to search for and find information on the web; but you fail to read and evaluate that information beyond the initial viewing of it."
Quote:
My job as linux admin is to install/manage services like dhcp/dns/vsftpd/ftp/samba/nfs/openldap etc and some form of user/backup/log/package management. What does solaris is used for? Is Solaris also used like dhcp/dns and other service etc. All i see is dtrace, zfs, zones etc.
What we're seeing is part of your job involves installation and managing network services, and not simple network services, but ones which require configuration of users as well as the service files which administer those users, and that this is done on Linux. So now you're faced with potentially learning information about a form of Unix, where Linux was originally created from. You asked a great deal of questions about free downloads; I think you now have a pointer to where you can download Solaris, but a further point is that companies do not just download and use commercial products in free form and then get all angry when they have to pay for support. They buy the product already, and therefore would extend their license.

The possibility exists that a merged corporate result may end up choosing to use RedHat by the way, or choose to use both and choose to maintain separate teams for support.

I've pointed to information that DTrace is likely irrelevant to you in the IT field. ZFS is interesting, but merely a file system and likely just something on the computer like the fact that it has a processor. And finally a virtual server is a good thing, I find that they all seem to operate in typical manners, and it's good that Solaris has a similar product solution.

I'd follow their documentation links and read up on it, but I'd also ask my corporate leadership to help evaluate properly whether or not this is a serious concern versus "take the word of a coworker". It's always good to learn, you CAN download Solaris and play with it and parallel the Linux administrative actions which you perform now with RedHat and simply learn how Solaris addresses these topics. I would not worry about updates, nor licenses at this time, and instead just spend my time learning how to do similar administrative actions with Solaris in parallel with the activities you perform for RedHat.

In your capacity as a system administrator, you are being paid to use your head and expected to not lose your head. Further, as a system administrator it is highly likely in some future where you will be privy to highly sensitive information, for instance that a legal or criminal investigation is being performed on a member of your corporation, or for instance that user accounts are being immediately locked likely pending a layoff action. The expectation is that you don't go and tattle with coworkers that "something is up", because you've noticed the obvious signs.

If you start experimenting with a version of Solaris and have further questions, I suggest you create a new thread with some specific questions. I do not see a Solaris forum, however there are forums for Software, General, Server, as well as Networking questions/discussions. The choice of placing this in Newbie is fine.

Last edited by rtmistler; 03-18-2015 at 07:49 AM.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:02 AM   #6
bangnagr
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@rtmistler, Thanks for responding. I didn't want to be disrespectful to TB0ne or to anybody else. Its just the frustration that why cant the questions be answered in simple way.

I may be managing some redhat servers, but that does not mean I'm proficient in Linux systems. Coming from Windows Desktop Support, I'm still at junior admin level. So when someone posts questions in 'Newbie' section, I suppose it should be reasonably understood that he is actually a newbie. That's my thought.

To put my perspective right, when I shifted from windows to linux, there were abundant tutorials on linux systems. Like if you want to work on Redhat, they suggested to download CentOS and practice on it. The http and youtube is filled with linux tutorials on how to manage simple services like dhcp/dns/vstpd etc, which I don't find on solaris systems. All I see is some experts in high level discussing the merits of dtrace, zfs etc etc. Then they tell solaris is dead - oracle killed it. And some suggest to download opensolaris, but that's also dead. Remaining is openindiana, and the same experts say openindiana is noway near solaris. Whats now left is solaris itself, and I believe that is not free. What I do now?

Now, all I wanted was some type of guidance or suggestions on how to make myself comfortable in solaris systems, so that when I actually be working on real solaris servers, I don't make a fool of myself before others.

You are presuming I'm very proficient in Redhat Systems, which I'm still not.

My apologizes if I sounded harsh.

Cheers
 
Old 03-18-2015, 09:16 AM   #7
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr View Post
@rtmistler, Thanks for responding. I didn't want to be disrespectful to TB0ne or to anybody else. Its just the frustration that why cant the questions be answered in simple way.

I may be managing some redhat servers, but that does not mean I'm proficient in Linux systems. Coming from Windows Desktop Support, I'm still at junior admin level. So when someone posts questions in 'Newbie' section, I suppose it should be reasonably understood that he is actually a newbie. That's my thought.

To put my perspective right, when I shifted from windows to linux, there were abundant tutorials on linux systems. Like if you want to work on Redhat, they suggested to download CentOS and practice on it. The http and youtube is filled with linux tutorials on how to manage simple services like dhcp/dns/vstpd etc, which I don't find on solaris systems. All I see is some experts in high level discussing the merits of dtrace, zfs etc etc. Then they tell solaris is dead - oracle killed it. And some suggest to download opensolaris, but that's also dead. Remaining is openindiana, and the same experts say openindiana is noway near solaris. Whats now left is solaris itself, and I believe that is not free. What I do now?

Now, all I wanted was some type of guidance or suggestions on how to make myself comfortable in solaris systems, so that when I actually be working on real solaris servers, I don't make a fool of myself before others.

You are presuming I'm very proficient in Redhat Systems, which I'm still not.

My apologizes if I sounded harsh.

Cheers
Youtube is now what I'd call reliable information.

Attempting to rapidly learn concepts you've never heard of before to avoid sounding like a fool is probably the fastest way to potentially appear as exactly that.

What I said before, which is to not just take the comments of a coworker and reach conclusions based on assumptions. If you have legitimate concerns that the scope of your job may need to be expanded to account for corporate changes, then discuss this with your management and indicate that you'd like to learn greater skills so as to make yourself more useful and versatile in your position.

And notice that, that is a very important distinction. Because there is a vast difference between "I've heard that ..." and "The recent announcement of the merger between ..." If there's no official changes in place at all, then there aren't. You can't control that, all you can control is your effectiveness at your job.

You cite that your are new to this job. Well, become as fluent and knowledgeable at your job as you can and consider the possible expansions in scope, like this possibility, in a clear minded and well thought out manner. What you're also saying is that your research shows some opinions that there is confusion and a lack of scope with respect to the whole subject of the Solaris product offering. Maybe that's accurate, maybe not. All I have for you is the brief starter information I looked at and referred you too. Please review that and reach your own opinion versus subscribe to the opinions of web based video-graphers who may or may not be amateurish, versus professionals. And also consider the seriousness of the whole subject as it applies to your company and your situation.

Large company merging with large company. Takes time. Diverse resources which are costly things such as whole systems of user management are not just tossed aside unceremoniously. Granted a decision may be made to go with one system over another, but there will likely be a transition time. Spending one's time being prepared to serve the future is always a good direction.

Good luck in your research.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:30 AM   #8
bangnagr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Good luck in your research.
Many Thanks, really appreciate it.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 10:08 AM   #9
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr View Post
@rtmistler, Thanks for responding. I didn't want to be disrespectful to TB0ne or to anybody else. Its just the frustration that why cant the questions be answered in simple way.
Apparently, you didn't bother to read my response. Each question WAS answered in a simple way, and you were even pointed to resources. Not sure what else you'd like to be told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr
Who are WE here. Please don't do that. Are you talking on behalf of all other members?
The "we" is EVERYONE else here who may be reading it, that's who. "We" STILL aren't going to know what the particulars of your job responsibilities are (or WILL BE, in this case), can we? Do YOU know what you're going to be asked to do with Solaris yet?
Quote:
I may be managing some redhat servers, but that does not mean I'm proficient in Linux systems. Coming from Windows Desktop Support, I'm still at junior admin level. So when someone posts questions in 'Newbie' section, I suppose it should be reasonably understood that he is actually a newbie. That's my thought.
And that's fine, but it is also reasonable to think that people can look things up and read documentation, BEFORE asking for further guidance, isn't it? Why is that unreasonable?
Quote:
To put my perspective right, when I shifted from windows to linux, there were abundant tutorials on linux systems. Like if you want to work on Redhat, they suggested to download CentOS and practice on it. The http and youtube is filled with linux tutorials on how to manage simple services like dhcp/dns/vstpd etc, which I don't find on solaris systems. All I see is some experts in high level discussing the merits of dtrace, zfs etc etc. Then they tell solaris is dead - oracle killed it. And some suggest to download opensolaris, but that's also dead. Remaining is openindiana, and the same experts say openindiana is noway near solaris. Whats now left is solaris itself, and I believe that is not free. What I do now?
If you want to know about Solaris, Oracle's/Solaris website is where you SHOULD go, and where I directed you. Getting advice second-hand (along with OPINIONS) from YouTube users is fairly pointless, when you can get the facts directly from the people who write and distribute it.

And your example is a good one, about looking things up. Putting "how to manage dhcp on solaris 11" into Google pulls up 295,000 hits. The first one is from Oracle's own website:
http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/...erview-50.html

...which tells you how to install DHCP, and lets you drill down into what files are relevant to it, and how to configure the service. You can find similar documentation for DNS, and the vsftpd site has instructions on how to load that on Solaris 11 as well. Just because you can't find a YouTube video for it, doesn't mean it's poorly documented. And you say you're a junior administrator, so there is a HUGE difference between installing/starting/stopping a service, and configuring and tuning it. You don't say how far you are in the process, but both DHCP and DNS can be VERY challenging to administer correctly, depending on your environment. Unless you know about DNS and DHCP now for Windows or Linux, you'll have just as many problems doing it for Solaris as you would any other OS.
Quote:
Now, all I wanted was some type of guidance or suggestions on how to make myself comfortable in solaris systems, so that when I actually be working on real solaris servers, I don't make a fool of myself before others. You are presuming I'm very proficient in Redhat Systems, which I'm still not.
You were given guidance and suggestions. You were told to read the Solaris documentation, and were pointed to the Solaris 11 download page. You can learn Solaris by loading it and running it, either in a virtual system (virtualbox works fine), or load it alone on a test machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangnagr
@TB0ne, I had thought I'm posting my question in 'Newbie' section. If you are not interested in my question, just ignore it, let others answer. Questioning my questions is not helping at all. I'm highly disappointed by your answer, it goes against the spirit of community learning. Please don't kill others enthusiasm if you have nothing to share.
And aside from answering your questions, and pointing you towards resources, what else would you have liked?
Quote:
I usually don't respond back to veterans like you, but according to your logic, all servers are same (windows/linux/unix), all follow client–server model and all work in some form of network. So why bother at all? Just go home.
No, according to MY logic, servers ARE just servers. DNS and DHCP are standard things...they function the same way, no matter WHAT they're running on, as does vsftpd. The only differences are TINY...the configuration file(s) may be in different locations, and there may be some syntax differences (Windows, mostly), but the concepts are identical. Since you say you know Windows and now work with Red Hat, you should already KNOW that network services don't depend on what's on the other end of the wire...just how they respond. A Windows system making a DHCP request doesn't know or CARE who answers...Mac, Solaris, Linux, Windows, or even the router itself. The request is sent, and is answered. WHAT answers is the job of the administrator to determine and configure.

If you want to learn and progress, then you will have to know these things. YouTube is NOT a resource for admins....the documentation and man pages are.
 
Old 03-18-2015, 05:27 PM   #10
jefro
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Shame Sun sold out to Oracle in some ways. You can still get either a VM image of Solaris or install media. Oracle still has all the documentation available thank goodness.

You should really get a book on solaris. Solaris is a pretty advanced OS and has many things that may be similar to Linux or Windows but it doesn't mean you can just jump in as an admin for Solaris.

Your local schools may offer classes. Online classes exist and are available from Oracle. Some certificate type books are worth looking at.
 
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:02 PM   #11
bangnagr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Shame Sun sold out to Oracle in some ways. You can still get either a VM image of Solaris or install media. Oracle still has all the documentation available thank goodness.

You should really get a book on solaris. Solaris is a pretty advanced OS and has many things that may be similar to Linux or Windows but it doesn't mean you can just jump in as an admin for Solaris.

Your local schools may offer classes. Online classes exist and are available from Oracle. Some certificate type books are worth looking at.
Thanks. I'll search for a good book.
 
  


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