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Old 10-22-2004, 05:10 PM   #1
guitarnix
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Is Gentoo Debian-based?


i just picked up a copy of a full install dvd that came with "Linux Format" magazine and i thought i would try it out. is gentoo a debian -based distro?
 
Old 10-22-2004, 05:20 PM   #2
Peacedog
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Afaik, gentoo is more bsd based than anything. It's really not like any of the other distros. It has it's own package system similar to the bsd's ports system called portage. It also has a handbook similar to the bsd's. You can read up here.

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml

Hope that clears it up a bit.
good luck.
 
Old 10-22-2004, 07:24 PM   #3
bigjohn
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I'd have thought that the way to describe gentoo would be "Source based".

all the packages being uncompiled source and all that.

The only thing that I noticed last time I played with gentoo was that I couldn't suss out how to proceed with the installation of an App if it wasn't in the "portage tree".

Suppose if I'd perceviered, I'd have just done the usual untar, make, etc etc - but I stupidly didn't think of that at the time!

regards

John
 
Old 10-22-2004, 07:36 PM   #4
Peacedog
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Hey bigjohn, I'd have to agree with you on the "source based" theory. I guess my explanation was more of how the system actually works, with portage acting in much the same way as the ports system for the bsd's. I think I read somewhere, that the gentoo creator was formerly a bsd developer, can't really remember where or when. In any event, I like your source based description, with bsd like functionality. Thanks for the perspective, you always have another way of looking at things that makes me think, I appreciate that. Maybe the original poster will try an install and come up with something else.
 
Old 10-22-2004, 07:52 PM   #5
comprookie2000
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Here is a link for additional info; http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
 
Old 10-23-2004, 03:35 AM   #6
Tamsco
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Fundamentally it is source based, but you can install programs from both .rpm and .deb. Most Gentoo users laugh at the idea, but sometimes one has no choice.
 
Old 10-23-2004, 10:55 AM   #7
dsegel
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For the few packages that weren't already in the Gentoo portage system, I just untarred the source and did a './configure' and 'make' and maybe 'make install' and that was it.

But almost anything you're likely to want is already in portage. They have something like 7,800+ packages in it now.
 
Old 10-23-2004, 11:36 AM   #8
WhiteChedda
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Re: Is Gentoo Debian-based?

Quote:
Originally posted by guitarnix
i just picked up a copy of a full install dvd that came with "Linux Format" magazine and i thought i would try it out. is gentoo a debian -based distro?
No. Gentoo is its own distro. The primary idea behind gentoo is that you compile your own apps, kernel, shells, etc... Although you can download precompiled binaries if you want to, it sort of defeats the purpose. Basically with gentoo, once you learn to use it correctly, your system is compiled to be specifically YOUR system. If you have a Pentium 4, don't want gnome and gtk support but do want kde and qt support each app will be compiled to specificaly be optimized for that setup. No more loading xine and it deciding whether to use also or oss, it will use whatever your compile added support for and not whatever you did not add support for, etc... No more generic 386 cpu optimizations.

It is based on the same linux kernel everyone else uses, so the kernel compile itself is not that spectacular, but the fact you will compile your own X11, your own openoffice.org, your own KDE, etc.. makes it kind of a cool idea, too bad it takes up so much time just to set it up, and maintain it. If you have a slow internet connection I'd advise avoiding gentoo, even my 1.5 Mb dsl is not fast enough IMO, also if your CPU is weak forget it. The compiling is by no means lightning fast for packages like X11 and kde.

Last edited by WhiteChedda; 10-23-2004 at 11:38 AM.
 
Old 10-23-2004, 11:55 AM   #9
TKS
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Re: Re: Is Gentoo Debian-based?

Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteChedda
No. Gentoo is its own distro. The primary idea behind gentoo is that you compile your own apps, kernel, shells, etc... Although you can download precompiled binaries if you want to, it sort of defeats the purpose. Basically with gentoo, once you learn to use it correctly, your system is compiled to be specifically YOUR system. If you have a Pentium 4, don't want gnome and gtk support but do want kde and qt support each app will be compiled to specificaly be optimized for that setup.
White Chedda is right...Gentoo and other source based distros like Lunar, Rock, Sorcerer, and OneBase Linux are cool because you are able to custom fit them to YOUR INDIVIDUAL HARDWARE and YOUR OWN PREFERENCES. When you download other distros that aren't source based, they have things already done to them to tailor them to that specific distro. They might be optimized for i386 instead of i586, etc.

To put this in an analogy, Gentoo is like you're wearing custom tailored pants and everyone else is wearing JC Penny Dockers. While some people look pretty snazzy in JC Penny Dockers, others look horrible. However, yours will always fit you because they are tailored to your specifications. Other people might be wearing sizes too big for them or too small, etc. That's kind of a bad analogy but you should get the picture from it. Bottom line is that source based distros optimize themselves to your hardware setup and preferences. They aren't optimized before you even download them.

TKS
 
Old 10-23-2004, 02:37 PM   #10
IRIGHTI
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Re: Re: Re: Is Gentoo Debian-based?

Quote:
Originally posted by TKS
To put this in an analogy, Gentoo is like you're wearing custom tailored pants and everyone else is wearing JC Penny Dockers. While some people look pretty snazzy in JC Penny Dockers, others look horrible. However, yours will always fit you because they are tailored to your specifications. Other people might be wearing sizes too big for them or too small, etc. That's kind of a bad analogy but you should get the picture from it. Bottom line is that source based distros optimize themselves to your hardware setup and preferences. They aren't optimized before you even download them.

TKS

You forgot another part of that analogy. While the people with the dockers spent 5 minutes buying them in JC Penny. Yours took you most of the day to make.

Just thought I'd add that. Good analogy though.
 
Old 02-04-2005, 08:23 PM   #11
Outabux
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A Debianite w/ many Gentoo Friends ...

Debian is a distro based on dpkg and apt, however, dpkg and apt are far more powerful than just retrieving/installing binaries.

With ANY Linux distro, from source is ALWAYS an option (nuff space, proper compiler, ...)

Looking over Gentoo, it owes much to DEBIAN, Period!

The portage tool may be from source (apt-get source ...), but it still mirrors, most importantly, the notion of stable, testing, and unstable.

Moreover, the directory setup of most Gentoo stuff if done in a/the standard fashion is that similarly of DEBIAN.

Debian can be built from source from scratch. <--Period. But its so much of a hassle. CPU optimizations for i586, i686 are moot! Maybe for AMD64 or something like that. But compiling myself with libc6-i686, kernel-mode linux, ... doesn't change hardly a dang (read another way) thing.


Installing Debian from Woody, then moving to SID is great.
At present I do not use udev or devfs!

Manage my own devices or use udev and hotplug's help here and there.


Oh yes, turned off from Gentoo when I investigated some of those ports...all over net, posts that the kernel stuff didnt work.
Tried other stuff too that was interesting...same result, crappola.

Gentoo great for development, so many writing how-to's n stuff (That's the great Part! Help)
But with anything, some of the stuff is garbadge, and unfortunately Gentoo's OpenMosix cutting edge kernels are garbadge.

At least reading and interpreting their ebuilds isn't that hard.

Thinking of incorporating things like that in my kernel building. To keep rules around to build kernels instead of complete source, configs, stamps, ....

Oh yes, I have used Suse Pro 8.2 -- > neat. Hard to upgrade. But so much out there.

FreeBSD 5.2, worked pretty good. Didn't like BSD userspace control ... Used Unix in high school ... or maybe when i matured i experimented with linux first ?

5.3 Haven't stuck with it long enough to determine.

Like IPCop, Puppy, & DSL too.

Now this isn't to bash gentoo, but so many gentoo'ers out there extoll it. But i constantly see them tweaking and trying to get it right. Me too in debian, but that source stuff only does on thing, create developers more quickly than debian would.

Oh yes GNU Debian encompasses more than linux ... HURD, MACH kernel, BSD derived Kernels (Free- , Open-, and Net -)

It will be here! Debian, Militarily Free.

Last but not least, Torvalds said it best ... google around for it! ... Debian is one of the most well thought out distro's of them all. Its take on many policies is better than most.

Take that.

Oh yes, not a computer scientist or engineer. The Pentultimate...a mathematician...the logic, the base, the truth.
 
Old 02-04-2005, 09:20 PM   #12
dsegel
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I'm an avid Gentooer, but that's simply because I like the way it works better than any other distro. There's no doubt that Debian is a kick-ass distro, but I feel it has a longer learning curve than Gentoo does. Or at least longer to get proficient; the time it takes to get really good on either system can be a lifetime.

I run Gentoo at home and on my desktop at work, but for my production servers at work I'm probably going with Debian partly because it will be easier to get support for it in cases when I'm not around.
 
Old 02-07-2005, 08:40 AM   #13
Outabux
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Agree learning curve can be lengthy.

At least im beyond (hopefully ) from correcting by reformatting.

To get debian up, i had to use pieces of configs from SuSe and Knoppix and hoped they worked...they did!

Took forever, but maintenance a breeze in debian when (in SID/unstable) an upgrade doesnt bust stuff as it has.

However, i have been savvy enough to correct most, with googling or own debugging explorations.

Maybe i'll try gentoo a lil later, but now id like to get a lil proficient in one of the bsd's. Free prolly.



On a sidenote, Use kernel-2.6.10 (pristine) + lenb acpi patches + kernel-mode-linux + bootsplash + supermount (for dvd-ram) + export.kpi (captive-ntfs) + and atkbd.c patch to get multimedia keys working on inspiron 8200 (from a Gentooer!)
 
Old 02-07-2005, 05:40 PM   #14
cs-cam
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Gentoo... Debian-based?!? What an insult?

The Gentoo site has a very good document outlining the distro, why/how it started and where it's heading. I think you'll find that it's very different from Debian's basis
 
Old 05-15-2005, 09:06 AM   #15
Outabux
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What I was getting at is that underneath all the hoopla of source builds/installs and its init.scripts (which are nothing more than renamed SysV, get that Gentooers. someone knows the truth) the skeleton of where files are located, its packaging system, ...

Owes a lot to debian. There's nothing wrong with stealing in GNU/GPL. But to have these elitist views and optimizations supposedly, whatever. Most of the cutting edge stuff I got from ebuilds was garbadge. Don't get me wrong, debians framebuffer support stumped me for quite some time.

Basically, the Gentoo stuff good, but More aLike every other distro than not--not an all encompassing unique thing. It has its own path, but the branch's stem is attached to debian as Torvalds first attempt's acorn wasn't far from the Minix/Unix tree.

Hey! You can even add portage to your debian system ... some packages are there first (albeit bugged).
 
  


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