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Old 12-31-2002, 10:59 AM   #1
hdx08774
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Installation Help Needed !


I have a Dell Dimension 8200. 80 GB Hard Disk, running Windows XP Professional.

The windows (NTFS) partition currently uses the whole hard disk, but there is plenty of free space (40GB+).

I want to install a Linux Distro on my system, and make it dual bootable. At first I looked at Lindows 3.0 as I was told it can reside on the Windows partition and doesn't require any special partitioning. However, I have been completely unable to find a free version of this software that I can download from the net. Everyone seems to want $100+ for it, which I am reluctant to pay until I know I like it.

Then I considered using Mandrake 9.0, as I have been told that this is a good all-round distro for beginners like me. However, I have no clue how to go about installing it, and set up the disk partitions.

I'd really appreciate some advice on either of these issues - if someone could tell me where I can get Lindows 3.0, or talk me through what has to be done with Mandrake 9.0 I'd be really grateful.

Thanks,
Matt.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 11:50 AM   #2
masinick
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Re: Installation Help Needed !

Quote:
Originally posted by hdx08774
I have a Dell Dimension 8200. 80 GB Hard Disk, running Windows XP Professional.

The windows (NTFS) partition currently uses the whole hard disk, but there is plenty of free space (40GB+).

I want to install a Linux Distro on my system, and make it dual bootable. At first I looked at Lindows 3.0 as I was told it can reside on the Windows partition and doesn't require any special partitioning. However, I have been completely unable to find a free version of this software that I can download from the net. Everyone seems to want $100+ for it, which I am reluctant to pay until I know I like it.

Then I considered using Mandrake 9.0, as I have been told that this is a good all-round distro for beginners like me. However, I have no clue how to go about installing it, and set up the disk partitions.

I'd really appreciate some advice on either of these issues - if someone could tell me where I can get Lindows 3.0, or talk me through what has to be done with Mandrake 9.0 I'd be really grateful.

Thanks,
Matt.
Mandrake makes a very good choice as an initial distro because it is able to take an existing configuration, split disk partitions so that there's room for Mandrake and whatever else you're using (XP with NTFS, in your case), and install the correct software on the correct partition, then create a boot manager capable of booting either system.

The one thing I'm uncertain about is the use of NTFS. I'm not 100% sure that any of the partition resizers in Mandrake or the other distros are yet capable of resizing NTFS disk partitions. IF they are, then Mandrake is pretty much an automatic. Take all the defaults, and it will take care of the rest for you. I play it safe; I use FAT32 partitions when I run XP or Windows 2000. That way, I can easily resize them, mount them, read them, and write them, with no problems at all. NTFS is proprietary. There have been attempts to make NTFS available for Linux, but support is in the Alpha stage, last I knew, unless that's recently changed. So the one thing I would consider changing, if you're able to do so, is to either resize your free space yourself before getting started or rebuild a system and leave some empty space. I KNOW that Mandrake can resize FAT32 partitions, but I'm not 100% sure whether or not it can reliably resize NTFS partitions.

Other than that issue, hardware support is the only other thing you may have to be concerned about. If you have hardware that is well supported by Linux software, then you should be all set to go, and Mandrake makes a great entry point!
 
Old 12-31-2002, 11:50 AM   #3
bulliver
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Mandrake has the ability to non-destructively resize partitions so you could use it to change your 80GB hd into 2 40GB partitions. You will want to defrag your HD first, and backup any critical data in case of a boo-boo (they do happen sometimes).

Then throw in install disk 1, reboot, and your off to the races...the gui installer is very strait forward and shouldn't cause too many problems for you.

Oh yeah, make sure you install a boot loader (lilo or grub), don't worry, it will prompt you...

Last edited by bulliver; 12-31-2002 at 11:52 AM.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 11:53 AM   #4
robinhood1995
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Hi hdx08774,

I would actually use RedHat and partition magic to simply move you first parttion and then use the dual boot (Lilo or Grub) option that comes with the distro.

This is what I have done with my desktop.

I am not sure that Mandrake comes with a dual boot option but I think it would.

If you go with RedHat and you need help just let me know.

Last edited by robinhood1995; 12-31-2002 at 11:55 AM.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 11:58 AM   #5
bulliver
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Quote:
I am not sure that Mandrake comes with a dual boot option but I think it would.
Every distro is able to dual boot, if it doesn't set it up during installation (which almost all do), then you can install lilo or grub manually afterwards...

Quote:
I KNOW that Mandrake can resize FAT32 partitions, but I'm not 100% sure whether or not it can reliably resize NTFS partitions.
Good point, I didn't think of that. Stupid proprietary Microsoft...

Last edited by bulliver; 12-31-2002 at 12:02 PM.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 12:54 PM   #6
SlickWilly
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I think the partition stuff is covered...

Lindows.. Costs $100. Period. No free version.

While it's distributed under the GNU license, they *are* able to charge for the work they've done on it.. And quite obviously they do.

You might be able to get the source from someone who's bought it, and that would be perfectly fine under the licensing terms. You could then compile it all and have a working copy of Lindows.. for free.

You can't however ask them to supply you with the source code (for free). They *should* supply you with it when you pay them the money for shipping it to you ($100)...

Wether they do or not I'm not entirely sure - Last I heard they weren't shipping it on the cd's but 'making it available for download' - but I've not heard of anyone actually um.. being *able* to download it.

I'm afraid there's a whole heapload of licensing issues, goodwill issues, plain ass issues surround Lindows and it's legality, willingness to stick to the spirit of the GNU license and well...

Frankly you're better off without it. From what I've heard its support for Windows products is atrocious, and from what I've heard from the other side of the fence, its linux functioning is massively crippled / badly implemented and so on... It's the worst of both worlds.



Oh, and it costs 100 bucks.. doh!

Slick.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 01:07 PM   #7
masinick
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Quote:
Originally posted by bulliver
Every distro is able to dual boot, if it doesn't set it up during installation (which almost all do), then you can install lilo or grub manually afterwards...

Good point, I didn't think of that. Stupid proprietary Microsoft...
Mandrake is very strong in booting multiple distros and mutiple OS, too. No problem there at all. Most other recent distros can boot multiple distros and other OS, too.

The big question I have in partition resizing is NTFS. Most partition tools can deal with FAT and FAT32 partitions, but only a few of them, in their most recent editions, can deal correctly with NTFS.
 
Old 12-31-2002, 03:52 PM   #8
b_s
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I have the same computer same setup that you want...I used partition magic 7(earlyier versions of PM wont work with XP as well or at all possibly)...that made it very easy going into it. You have create the partition before the 1024th cylinder, partition magic shows you where that is, and create it as a ext2 partition, its also easy to just create another partition while you're at it--a swap just double your ram for its size. Then restart and boot from the cd rom and mandrake 9 will see that there has been a partition there, you just have to tell it to mount the 2 partitions (swap & ext2) the rest of it, mandrake will take care of. Mandrake 9 can see my ntfs drive, so I would imagine that it can partition it, imagine is the key word, lilo is a great bootloader, looks nice and Ive had no trouble with it in the past, I prefer to use a boot disk. I am still very new to linux so if I have given incorrect information.. Im sorry.
 
Old 01-01-2003, 12:11 AM   #9
nuttyvishal4u
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Hi there
I am also newbie like u in linux. I had also faced problem in installation of Linux. What i would suggest u is dont use Microsoft Products (XP/2000) with NTFS as ur using it in home and there is no file system level security. If possible partition ur in 3-4 partitions as it is 80 GB so that u will never face problem while installing different OS's. U can use partion magic to resize but i am not sure how to do it. If urs is a new system with no data then format & partition disk.
I know i am a newbie still i am putting my views. Any experienced user has a right to correct me if i am wrong.
Regarding the installation of mandrake it is very simple & automatic. Redhat Linux is also the best distibution avalaible on net.
U can find the free download of Mandrake 9 & Redhat Linux 8 at
www.planetmirror.com. Go to category Linux.
bye
 
Old 01-01-2003, 01:26 PM   #10
hdx08774
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OK...I have another question related to this. Is it possible to change an NTFS partition to FAT32 without loosing all the data and doing a new install?
 
Old 01-01-2003, 05:08 PM   #11
dogmeat
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All versions of Linux can boot multiple OS's. Any Linux Distro installed the default boot loader lilo. Lilo is the most basic. Grub would be a addon, i do believe.

As far as resizing NTFS partitions. no. There has been no ability to write to a NTFS partition. You Can read but, writing will seriously cripple NTFS. Your gonna need to redo the OS's on the machine to get it back to fat32. Was it dell that decided on NTFS? Another reason Not to buy one of their chinsey computer.
 
Old 01-01-2003, 06:28 PM   #12
hdx08774
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Yes...the machine came with NTFS as the default, so it looks like Iam going to have to completely re-install from the OS level up...arrgggh.

Most people I have spoken to have recommended using FAT32 over NTFS, but I really don't understand what the difference is. If anyone knows - feel free to respond to this.
 
Old 01-01-2003, 06:41 PM   #13
ikw38
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NTFS -- Great if you want a file system that you have to format the drive to be able to reinstall an OS.
Mandy 9 comes with a very easy menu to partition and setup dual boot drives. I am currently using Mandy 9 - God awful slow Xpeee on this HD.

As for speed and reliabilty you cannot will not beat Linux- for full time reboot, virus problems and of course as someone said " dancing paper clips" you need Vendow$.

I am intersted in loooking at Lindows-- reason being I support several people in Vendow$ and would like to see if this might be a viable option to get them off M$. But again I don't have $100 to blow on something like this right now. I tried dowloading it off one of the forums sometime ago but being unser XP at the time it was going to take something like 25 hours to download.

By the way Mandrake can handle your NTFS patition- JUST make sure you have free space already setup for it. I used Partition Magic 8 and it worked perfect.
Good Luck,
 
Old 01-02-2003, 02:34 PM   #14
dogmeat
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NTFS is a filesystem that was created for the ultimate in security. Well, that actualy hurts th file system because it wont allow you to access anything, as fat32 will.

What im thinking is that you could resive the partition with the newest version of Partition Magic, but the problem i see with this, is you cant actualy write to the partition unless you in windows. Linux will read, but when it comes to writing itll tear it up. My best suggestion. Delete the partition. Use the default partitioning software in the linux distro your using. If its mandrake even better. You can redo the partition as NTFS for windows, but for linux you want a ext3 file system. Keep in mind, if you wanna share files between the two, you wont beable to w/ NTFS.

Another problem i can see. How did they ship you windowsXP? Is it an actualy install CD or a system recovery. Sometimes those system recovery cd's like to format the drive and create its own partition. Then again, you might beable to create your linux partitions. Then leave the rest as free space.Then go to reinstall WindowsXP with the free space, THEN go back over and install linux. If you did it the other way you would have issues with your bootloader (reinstalling and such)
 
Old 02-20-2003, 07:38 AM   #15
anymouse
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Where do you people come up with this

NTFS is a true 32 bit file system without the 4GB (depending on version) limits of the fat32 system. One can read any other OS file system with the correct driver sys. I read Linux files in W2K and drop files into W2K with a gnu sys on my dual boot system and I mount Linux drives on a separate system with hummingbird nfs. Doesn't seem like this approach has changed much in 10 years.
 
  


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