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Old 01-19-2009, 04:55 AM   #16
tomslick
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In the US it could be a fine or a felony to steal wireless internet
It's theft of service or unauthorized access to computer network

compare it to cloning a cell phone or using a handset from a cordless phone to make a call on someone's land line. Just because it's open does not make it legal

In 2005 a man in Florida was charged with a felony (unauthorized access to computer network) for stealing a wireless signal

An Illinois man was fined US$250 in 2006 after pleading guilty to remotely accessing another computer system without the owner's approval

In Washington in 2006 a man was arrest for theft of service after stealing wireless internet form a coffee shop.

The list goes on. So it's no a moral issue it's a legal issue.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 05:53 AM   #17
stratotak
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I have never heard or read about someone arrested or fined for it..Its true..you learn something new everyday..you never hear about or read about it..so it must be a rarity for it to happen
 
Old 01-19-2009, 07:35 AM   #18
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratotak View Post
I have never heard or read about someone arrested or fined for it..Its true..you learn something new everyday..you never hear about or read about it..so it must be a rarity for it to happen
And most speeders are never arrested.....

Laws are like power tools--It's nice to have a good selection, but you don't need to feel compelled to use them every day.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 08:27 AM   #19
colucix
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You see the original poster did not show up again? Maybe we have frightened him with issues about breaking law and arresting!?!
 
Old 01-19-2009, 09:36 AM   #20
onebuck
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Hi,

Ethics and morality? How sweet it is to see the varied presentations of conduct.

I'm far from perfect but I do try to be ethically correct along with moral standards. You would be surprised at who is watching and the resultant of your actions. I do have a responsibility to my community along with personal responsibilities that place boundaries on what and how I do things. I hope by example my peers will do the same. Therefore we will have a community that will be led by our daily endeavors. Our children are daily bombarded with poor examples from media sources that place the bad boy attitude as a glaring example to follow blindly with a glorifying perception.

Because a door is unlocked doesn't mean that you are allowed to walk through it. You should knock and hopefully welcomed to walk into the room invited. Simple to see a OPEN or Closed sign on a business door. If the sign says OPEN then you of course can come through the door welcomed and legally. If the sign says Closed then you do not have the right to go into the business. Ah, but you say that it is the responsibility of the business to control the sign. If the door is locked but the sign says open, do you break the door to get in? No! You are guarded by your moral background to not pass the door.

Now if the router/modem is open without security you find the signal but decide to not pass into the realm then you are morally just. But if you say to yourself it's free to get since the owner didn't protect their AP then you are failing in morality along with ethics. You are stealing!
 
Old 01-19-2009, 10:14 AM   #21
mrclisdue
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If my neighbour plants an apple tree and the branches overflow onto my property, I am welcome to the apples.

If my neighbour plants an apple tree and the branches overflow onto a public roadway, the public is welcome to the apples.

If my neighbour sets up his wifi, and it is open, and I can receive the signal on my property, I am welcome to it.

etc.

There is nothing morally or ethically wrong with this line of thought.

As for me, as a matter of courtesy I would inform my neighbour of his situation.

If my wifi is open (and it is - I only filter by MAC, but on the odd occasion I have turned the filter off), then others are welcome to it, or rather, I have no justification for complaining, nor no cause, ethically or morally, to go after anyone who connects to it.

Ignorance is never an excuse.

cheers,

Last edited by mrclisdue; 01-19-2009 at 10:23 AM. Reason: additional stuff
 
Old 01-19-2009, 11:00 AM   #22
onebuck
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Hi,

Ethics and morality? How sweet it is to see the varied presentations of conduct.

I'm far from perfect but I do try to be ethically correct along with moral standards. You would be surprised at who is watching and the resultant of your actions. I do have a responsibility to my community along with personal responsibilities that place boundaries on what and how I do things. I hope by example my peers will do the same. Therefore we will have a community that will be led by our daily endeavors. Our children are daily bombarded with poor examples from media sources that place the bad boy attitude as a glaring example to follow blindly with a glorifying perception.

Because a door is unlocked doesn't mean that you are allowed to walk through it. You should knock and hopefully welcomed to walk into the room invited. Simple to see a OPEN or Closed sign on a business door. If the sign says OPEN then you of course can come through the door welcomed and legally. If the sign says Closed then you do not have the right to go into the business. Ah, but you say that it is the responsibility of the business to control the sign. If the door is locked but the sign says open, do you break the door to get in? No! You are guarded by your moral background to not pass the door.

Now if the router/modem is open without security you find the signal but decide to not pass into the realm then you are morally just. But if you say to yourself it's free to get since the owner didn't protect their AP then you are failing in morality along with ethics. You are stealing!
 
Old 01-19-2009, 12:51 PM   #23
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclisdue View Post
If my neighbour sets up his wifi, and it is open, and I can receive the signal on my property, I am welcome to it.
Well, there's at least one post here that says it is illegal in the US....but I have no facts on the written law.

Let's consider some cases:

1. Neighbor is clueless, sets up wifi "open". You are also clueless, and assume that his wifi is therefore free for you to use.
-----
You both deserve each other, and most likely no-one will bother you.

2. Neighbor still clueless. You understand how things work, and know that your neighbor will, as a minimum, have his bandwidth taken and---in the limit---will be vulnerable to all manner of attacks, identity theft, etc.
-----
You now have a moral responsibility to help your neighbor secure his network.

3. As above, and the neighbor gets sensitive info taken.
-----
You are now potentially a party to the crime. While they might lose in court, we all have met lawyers that would just love to make legal precedent by prosecuting you. For the most part, they have nothing to lose.

I think it's much better to just get your own connection......
 
Old 01-19-2009, 01:23 PM   #24
PTrenholme
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To revert to the OP's "problem," Fedora 9 defaults to installing the NetworkManager package and, if that's running and you're using the GNOME desktop, you should see a set of "connection bars" towards the right of the top bar. Right-click on the icon to bring up the list of access points. The one you're using should have the "dot" filled in. If it's not your AP, click on yours to connect to it and fill in the password when asked to do so. (After all, you're paying for your connection whether or not you're using it, so why use a neighbour's connection?)

If you're using the KDE desktop, start knetworkmanager to see the same icon as used by GNOME on the lower right task bar. (You'll only need to start knetworkmanager once. Thereafter it'll start automatically.)
 
Old 01-19-2009, 01:38 PM   #25
tredegar
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Quote:
To revert to the OP's "problem,".....
Yes, but from post #1, the OP's "ISP" is AOL, which we know isn't really an ISP in the true sense of the term.

I think the OP (sol_47) should speak politely to his neighbour, pointing out the security flaw he inadvertently discovered in his neighbour's network, and then ask if he can share his neighbour's account until he can get himself connected to a proper ISP (not AOL!)

But sol_47 is no longer contributing to this thread, so perhaps these suggestions and moral arguments no longer matter.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 08:47 PM   #26
PTrenholme
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Perhaps, but I was trying to show him how to discover the name of the access point he was using.

I suspect that what he was using for his home network was a DSL connection provided by his local 'phone company. My step-son in Colorado and I, in Washington, both use DSL connections through Qwest with the same kind of 2wire modem. He "activated" the his modem by running the Windows program that comes with the modem package. And, as a result, he's using MSN as his ISP and AOL as his default IE configuration. (In fact, he wasn't even aware that his ISP was MSN.)

When I installed my modem, I just turned it on and voila - it was working. I then configured it from its Web interface since, by default, it only implements WEP security, and IIRC even that's turned off. (The default login to the ISP uses the device serial number as a password, and comes with that setting already made.) I, too, use MSN as my ISP since it's much cheaper than any alternative I could find in this area. (The cheapest alternate ISP was $25/month!) I suppose that the DSL fee I pay may also include an AOL subscription, but, of course, I've never bothered to find out.
 
Old 01-20-2009, 04:47 PM   #27
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTrenholme View Post
Perhaps, but I was trying to show him how to discover the name of the access point he was using.

I suspect that what he was using for his home network was a DSL connection provided by his local 'phone company. My step-son in Colorado and I, in Washington, both use DSL connections through Qwest with the same kind of 2wire modem. He "activated" the his modem by running the Windows program that comes with the modem package. And, as a result, he's using MSN as his ISP and AOL as his default IE configuration. (In fact, he wasn't even aware that his ISP was MSN.)

When I installed my modem, I just turned it on and voila - it was working. I then configured it from its Web interface since, by default, it only implements WEP security, and IIRC even that's turned off. (The default login to the ISP uses the device serial number as a password, and comes with that setting already made.) I, too, use MSN as my ISP since it's much cheaper than any alternative I could find in this area. (The cheapest alternate ISP was $25/month!) I suppose that the DSL fee I pay may also include an AOL subscription, but, of course, I've never bothered to find out.
What's your DSL fee? You pay MSN for your DSL? The DSL provider is your ISP.
 
Old 01-21-2009, 07:54 PM   #28
PTrenholme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,


What's your DSL fee? You pay MSN for your DSL? The DSL provider is your ISP.
No, Qwest (as do most 'phone companies) provide only the connection from your house to the DSL modem bank at the local switch. [Your DSL modem talks to their DSL modem, but their DSL modem then connects you (over cables of some type) to some ISP.] You can choose any ISP that can connect the upstream end of the cable to the Internet backbone.

If you look closely at the 'phone company's Web pages about their DSL service, you'll usually find a link to "Alternitive ISPs" For example, here's the Qwest link.

As to cost, I have a 1.5Mb/sec. connection for $25/mo. plus another $5/mo. for MSN. When I looked at the prices quoted by the alternative providers on that link, the cheapest I saw was $25/mo. additional.
 
Old 01-21-2009, 09:08 PM   #29
vinnywrite
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well how about this----a wireless card by default conects to the BEST signal and for some reason the nabors signal SOMETIMES overrides mine and the card switches to thares and I'm left having to keep a console open to to do ----iwconfig wlan0 ap 00:13:190:32:47 comit agin and agin and agin untill it sticks.

SO if unnotesed by me i get cought on his net is it my fault? even thoug I do try to keep it on mine.

I dident used to keep Kwifimanager open all the time (it uses resorses i want my box is old) but now I feel oblagated to so I can see the AP. when I boot up. O ya it dosent switch to a usable signal after boot sence dhcpcd has allredey ben assined but when booting some times it gets thares insted of mine however on the windows partition it dose.

now I'm shure some one is gowing to tell me how to prevent this but my point is I'm shur it hapens alought to pepole that never even know it sence if your Mrs smith that just bought a windows box and know nothing abought the in's and out's of computers youd NEVER know wether you were on yours or thars!!!!!
 
Old 01-21-2009, 09:41 PM   #30
digitelle
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Just had to laugh about this one, not sure if they've "updated" the laws here, but I know that in '99, if a car was running and unlocked and I took it, it was a penalty of "Joy Riding" and my friend and I just got a $75 fine each, not even on permanent record, I couldn't believe it!!!
 
  


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