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Old 08-04-2010, 09:51 AM   #1
LucyFur
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Question I have been a Windows OS user for at least 18 years.


I have tried using Linux several times but to be truthful it just seemed to be so complicated when compared to windows OS's That it just never really appealed. The one thing That really annoys me about Linux is that Widows makes it so easy to connect to the internet and even if you run into a problem nearly every Provider offers support for Win users.

My provider BigPond (Australia) Solves all Win OS problems with just a simple phone call, but when I say LInux " Sorry We don't support that system." is the reply.

So! My cable modem is supplied by BigPond but when I try to log in using Ubuntu 10.4 : Nothing works. Linux just can't recognise the hardware and no one seems to be able to tell me how you you link Ubuntu to your normal Internet hardware.

Why is it so difficult for Linux users to do what is just a breeze for Windows users.

Until Linux can match Microsoft in user friendly competition, it will always run a dismal Last to Windows in any form and Win 7 is just such an easy to use service.

So is there anyone out there who can tell me how I get Ubuntu to recognize my Modem and at least get me started?

signed LucyFur
 
Old 08-04-2010, 10:02 AM   #2
grail
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Hi LucyFur

I have been using computers for quite a bit longer than yourself and have been through all iterations of Windows since 3.0 and would like to firstly
point out that with th exception Windows 7, your statements are almost a complete fabrication.

Please don't think I am trying to be rude but if you will remember correctly, as opposed to what you know how to do, windows has never supported
any net hardware, ie modems or nics, without the aide of first installing the drivers (again excluding windows 7 and for some exotic hardware even it still requires the drivers either downloaded or off a disk).

So if we treat this like a windows operating system the first question would be what is the model of the modem?
It may be supplied by Bigpond and they may not support (ie have the drivers) but have you tried the manufacturers site?

You may also have one that is branded as a Bigpond modem, but I can guarantee they didn't make it. If you are not sure about the manufacturer
another source I find very helpful is Whirlpool

On the Ubuntu front I can tell you that in comparison I installed on my Dell laptop and connected to my d-link adsl modem wirelessly first time (was simply prompted for my password)

Bare with us and hopefully we will be able to give you a good enough intro to get you hooked
 
Old 08-04-2010, 10:15 AM   #3
pixellany
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Welcome to LQ!!

Interesting that you should use internet connection as your "Windows vs Linux" test case. This is one area in which Linux is demonstrably easier and better.

1. Internet connections are normally generic---in most cases, the provider will not even know what OS you are running unless you tell them. If they ask you, then ask them why it matters. You do have to learn enough stuff to speak to them generically---eg: What DNS setting should I use?

2. Assuming that your cable modem has standard ethernet ports, then this is generic---it does not matter what OS you are using. If the modem does not include a router, then I would recommend getting one. They are cheap, and it can help with a variety of issues.

3. Have you put the correct settings into your computer? The ISP will tell you these, but a cable modem will generally be DHCP (as opposed to a static IP adddress)---All you have to do is set you internet settings to DHCP (It will sometimes says something like "get an IP address automatically".) (When you are connected using Windows, you can simply copy down the settings used there and then put those in to the Linux system.)
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:29 AM   #4
Bratmon
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When I first saw this thread, I made a chart of what might happen to it.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6609/chartpr.png
 
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:33 AM   #5
grail
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@Bratmon - I think the humorous chart portion is a bit on the weighty side ... lol
 
Old 08-04-2010, 10:56 AM   #6
HasC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LucyFur View Post
I have tried using Linux several times but to be truthful it just seemed to be so complicated when compared to windows OS's
Should be, because Linux is NOT Windows. It's a big mistake of you, and many many others, to believe Linux will behave exactly the same way as Windows OSes - a mistake unfortunately encouraged by some organizations.

You're just used to the Windows way, and that's OK. But you can't blame Linux for not following the same path. Before using Linux you'll have to learn a new way of doing things and a new philosophy. Then you can rant about Linux being more complicated than Windows... or just better stick with Windows.
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:44 AM   #7
LucyFur
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Dear Grail,pixellany,Bratmon,HasC,

Thank you all for your input. The reason I am here is because I want to learn Linux, and I am not here to denigrate it nor to praise Windows. I am 69 years old and am trying to learn the computer equivalent of a foreign language. To be quite truthful I'd never heard of a thread until I came to this site, except to use it to sew a button on. I am so dumb I don't even know what a troll is although I imagine it is something derogative. I will defer to all of your Barbs, witty remarks, any jibes etc etc because I need to start somewhere and this seems like a reasonable site to do so. Nothing I say is a rant or a criticism of any OS nor an endorsement.

I will dutifully read each and every thread I receive from those willing to grant me their pearls of wisdom and also enjoy the comic relief of the humourously inclined amongst my esteemed co-respondents such as the pie chart contributor.

I will comment however, on the Lao Tse Quote. If this is so, Then how is knowledge imparted if all who possess such wisdom remain silent and all who speak have no idea what they are talking about?

Also, in regards to the Quote because "Linux is not Windows". All I seek is, why is Windows used by Multi Millions of People and Linux by so few. Is there any thing that Linux can learn from Windows to gain A larger market share or is it more like an exclusive club, where your IQ needs to be above a certain level in order to understand it's intricacies.

My Goal is to use Ubuntu to do everything I use windows for, and my first obstacle is the internet. Obviously this post is a Win 7 effort. Hopefully my next communication will be Ubuntu created.

Yours respectfully LucyFur
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:29 AM   #8
QueenZ
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I completely agree getting a router, it will make your life easier and you will be able to connect to it without any problems

To answer your question why is Windows used by many many people and Linux is not... welll.. there are many reasons. First, Windows is a commercial product sold in stores coming with support. More advertisement i guess. And when windows really bacame popular was with 95 and their new GUI. I'm not sure what kind of gui did linux have back in 1995 but i could look it up i guess..

I quite frankly don't see any difference between these 2 OS. To me they are more or less the same...unless you go into details. Newbies will usually say something like, you can't install any software on linux without internet connection, you can't do anything without internet. which is a lie. you install software just like on windows. you get a package, if it's a .deb it will simply copy over all it's contents and run some scripts that are in there if any. now you may have to install other .debs in order to install the other one but it's not a problem. a good package manager can take care of all that but it's not impossible to do it by hand and without internet connection if you have all the debs or rpms or whatever kind of packages your distro uses... i didn't want to make this more complicated for you rather explain how Linux is not really any different than Windows...

Now that being said i don't really want Linux to gain market share. That simply means more hackers and crackers and more viruses and all that stuff. But on the other hand if it gained more market share, more drivers would probably get written for it... so it's a bit of a dilemma...
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:23 AM   #9
genogebot
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I am a serial Linux newbie: I have repeatedly tried Linux every year or two for a long time, and it's only now, in the last couple of months, that I can see myself making a permanent switch. The reason for this is my recent discovery of Linux Mint, which is *almost* an out-of-the-box working system - it's a matter of personal preference, of course, but I found it much easier to install and use than Ubuntu. Now that I am able to use Linux comfortably every day without tearing my hair out because this or that bit of hardware isn't working I am quite happy to delve into the inner workings of the system. Some people will tell you to learn the details first, just to get a system working - I think that's unrealistic and unhelpful to newbies, and effectively keeps out those of us without a lot technical aptitude. This also conflicts with the other Linux afficionados who insist that Linux is an easy substitute for Windows users without any prior Linux experience - something equally unrealistic, and the cause of a lot of false expectations and disappointment, in my opinion.

I still have moments when I'm trying to do something in Linux, following all the advice, and it still doesn't work, whereas it can be achieved in Windows with a couple of mouse clicks. Primarily this comes down to the prevalence of drivers written for Windows and not for Linux, and occasionally to the amateurish way some Linux software is written (admittedly, I've seen some pretty crappy Windows software too, but there's usually a lot more choices so one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl, like it might if the range of available Linux software for a task is very limited). Generally, my experience of Linux in the last couple of months is 90 percent "This is brilliant!" and 10 percent "What were those <insert suitably outraged expletives here> idiots thinking when they decided to do it this way?!!"

My solution is to run Linux Mint 9 as my primary operating system, and install the free VMWare Player (or VirtualBox, available in the linux software repositories) from where I can run a 'virtual machine' installation of Windows for the things I just can't do in Linux as well as I would like, or that I haven't got around to working out in Linux yet - but even that solution requires a fair bit of reading to understand how to use it.

I hope this helps.
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:33 AM   #10
grail
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Hey LucyFur

It is refreshing to see someone who is prepared to do some hard yards, and yes the first few can be difficult as HasC pointed out its not the same
as Windows but then a lot of what makes it different is what most linux users enjoy about it

So let us see if we can get you moving.

As you have read above, a modem router combo is often the way to go (although not 100% necessary) as it can make things easier.

Perhaps you could tell us a few things and we will see what we can do to assist:

1. Is this a dual boot setup? ie is Windows and Ubuntu installed on the same machine (its not an issue if not but it does imply the same machine can already connect correctly.

2. What is the model of your modem?

3. As pixellany said, do you have all your setting that help you setup windows available?

4. Are you getting an ip from any device?

5. Are you able to get to the web interface of your modem?

Some commands that if you execute them and display the output can help:

1. lspci | grep -i network <- -This will let us know what network hardware has been found

2. ifconfig <- -This will advise if any devices have been created

3. cat /etc/resolv.conf <- - file to see if any details about dns servers has been added

Look forward to getting you running
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 05:36 AM   #11
genogebot
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P.S. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) says a troll is

Quote:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 09:15 AM   #12
LucyFur
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Dear gentlemen, thank you for your kind responses, and genogebot I thought troll might be short for Trollop, ( Aussie slang for Moll) I think I've out grown that stage of my life (lol) Or (HeHe Cackle cackle) ( Wicked laugh)and No I don't want to provoke anybody .....or be inflammatory.... Seriously though.... "Grail" I have a Bigpond Netgear Model wireless cable Modem gateway...CG814WG v3.... BigPond 4D9D.

My system is HP o6660o Dual boot Win 7 Ultimate and Ubuntu v 10.04 I think, downloaded it a couple of months ago so I am pretty sure that was the Distro...I know all this is going to be difficult. Oh! that I was a hot young spunky 16 year old again with a lifetime of geekdom and computer networking to look forward to instead of the slow degenerative meltdown into senility and possible alzeimhers where i can't even get into my PC because I forgot the password I used only 5 minutes ago.

Dear QueenZ, what is the difference between a router and a Modem, because years ago I bought a Belkin 5 Port Network switch which is labeled 10/100BT Ethernet Switch. It's brand new and still in its original packet. I have 2 pc's and 2 laptops. The laptops just use the onboard modem and my PC's use the USB netgear wireless Doovey Bugs that come with the Modem and allow me to set up the PC's anywhere in the house.

The Ethernet Switch is not wireless and requires cables so I just never bothered to use it.Any way QueenZ! You can't have your cake and eat it too. If Linux is as good as you all say it is then it deserves its rightful place in the scheme of things and who knows, maybe even Bill Gates actually uses Linux instead of his own resource hogging Wonder Child. QueenZ I tried Linux Red Hat back in 1995 and still have the install disks. I use the internet to do all my banking, letter writing, googling etc, just gotta have it.

So! Thank you all once again for your input... "Grail" I lived in Darwin for 5 years,2002 to 2007...... "Genogebot".... I'll download Linux Mint and check it out..
 
Old 08-05-2010, 09:33 AM   #13
CincinnatiKid
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LucyFur, boot into Ubuntu, open a terminal, should be in Applications->System Tools->Terminal (maybe). Type,

Code:
sudo ifconfig
Post the output of the above command in this forum.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 09:57 AM   #14
grail
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So the good news is that your CG814WG v3 is a wireless modem + router so it should be fairly easy sailing

So if we could get the output of the 3 commands I posted we can see where to go

Just a curious question but on the top menu bar do you see a perhaps semi-greyed out wireless symbol? (4 curved lines growing larger from bottom to top)
 
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:59 AM   #15
apolinsky
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Lucy:

Welcome! When you mention some of the things you've been experiencing, all I can do is relate our experiences in connecting to the Internet. We have a very small house in the country. It only has dialup Internet connectivity. Being an old Linux person, I just used my Slackware machine with Lynx, a non graphical browser, to retrieve my mail. Debbie, my wife complained why we could use her cell phone as a modem. I looked into various options. Verizon in the States has a 'data' plan that you can use for a relatively small cost. I went to their website and found the needed software for Windows and McIntosh computers. Nothing for Linux. I forged ahead and plugged her phone into her Ubutu 10.04 machine. The software recognized the cell phone, and we connected quite quickly. I then wondered why HER machine could not be used as a router for the LAN. I wrote a script to handle the task. We now have excellent service without any additional software. I think if you take some time, you'll learn to love Linux. It's not as hard as many people think.
 
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