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Old 09-20-2006, 09:31 AM   #1
MUni_rider
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I've got Linux, but Windhoes won't install


Hi,

I have a FC4 variant, (FoX Desktop), and I installed it on a barebones laptop. I'm in some computer programming classes so I need windhoes for Visual Basic. I got help understanding partitioning, but I have a strange problem I can't seem to work out.

All I've ever had on the laptop was linux. When I tried to get my windhoes CD to work, I couldn't even get it to boot from BIOS. I thought it might be my CD because it is a copy (yeah, and you don't have one either). So, I tried to get my old dell CD's to work on it. They won't load either

I know there's some issues with Grub and Dos not reading each other, but what's the deal when nothing is loading?..even from BIOS? When I put my CD in, it revs up, goes black, and then just sits there. Nothing happens. My Linux CD works though.

Can anyone help me please?
Thanks
 
Old 09-20-2006, 09:39 AM   #2
odcheck
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I had such a similar problem but only if the whole disk was used by ext3.
So I would recommend if you still have space on the Disk left you can
use a ntfs-tools and create using mkntfs a ntfs partition.
Then try to boot again.

Which Dell Notebook do you call your own?
 
Old 09-20-2006, 09:41 AM   #3
timmeke
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Quote:
My Linux CD works though.
Please define this. Does the CD bring you to the Linux installation? Or does it just boot Linux (ie maybe the already installed one)?

In the BIOS setup, you must put the CD drive in front of the hard disk in the boot sequence.
Are you sure that this is done properly?
 
Old 09-20-2006, 09:47 AM   #4
odcheck
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Good question from timmeke
thats why I asked which Dell NB you own. Newer ones you can use F12 to get the ontime boot menu. If there no CD/DVD is listed you've to use SPACE in the BIOS Bootdevice list to activate it. With issuing F12 you don't have to change your Boot Order.

But please answer the question of timmeke regarding what do you mean with Linux CD boots. Till which point?
 
Old 09-20-2006, 11:46 AM   #5
MUni_rider
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My CD takes me to the installation screen for FoX Linux. I can upgrade packages or reinstall the whole thing. Jim Bass helped me on another thread on how to use Disk Druid so I've got about 20gb of free space on hda5 that I've left for Windhoes. He was explaining that it is easier to install Windhoes first because Linux is much more kind when I go to partition, but that's my problem. Windhoes installation doesn't even load.

So I've got a 60gb partitioned version of Linux, 20gb of free, partitioned space, and no Windhoes

My laptop is a custom MSI, but I was trying to make it think it was a dell 9100 desktop with a different boot CD ^_^ I've checked BIOS and by default it checks all bootable media first before loading from the HDD.
 
Old 09-21-2006, 12:54 AM   #6
odcheck
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Please start your Fox Stuff, make a FAT32 Partition on the 20GB space.
And try to boot again from CD.
or use fdisk and remove the boot flag.

But no matter how after you finally done it to install win. fox won't boot anymore cause grub will be kicked. So then you'll have the choice to reinstall grub using rescue mode of fox and then enter the grub menu and reinstall it into the mbr or install no grub and set the loader in the 1st partition of fox and let win using the boot.ini let you give the choice what you want to boot. But therefor you'll have to copy 1024bytes of the fox boot part to a file that should be called for e.g. linux.lnx this can be easily included in the boot.ini.

Check this.

And how wonderful of course it's easy to install win 1st and then a common linux that uses grub as long as you install it into the mbr.
The other way around windows doesn't give a dam if something is installed before and just clears out the mbr w/o including Linux into the NTLDR.(vs Grub)
 
Old 09-21-2006, 11:11 AM   #7
MUni_rider
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Quote:
But no matter how after you finally done it to install win. fox won't boot anymore cause grub will be kicked.
Glad to see I've taken the easy way to dual-booting. I've formatted the free space using "qtparted" that came with my installation. It now reads...
/dev/hda6 fat32

I tried booting again with my Win disk, and I still get the same black screen. I checked the partition and it is still fat32, so that's not the issue. Could my copy of Windhoes be an issue? It works with other computers running the same OS.

As for fdisk, this is a n00b question, but how do I access it? Is it through console commands? I used "where is" but trying to open it got me no where.
 
Old 09-21-2006, 04:03 PM   #8
dogged28
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usually to access the windows 'fdisk' is generally done with a boot disk (win98). the way i'm reading these other guys statements, your fighting a very long battle. re-read these posts, they tell you basically to install windows first then linux. there is no fight that way. unfortunately, windows demands to be first and not second. sorry if this sounded harsh. hope you get it working soon.
 
Old 09-21-2006, 05:13 PM   #9
MUni_rider
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I think I missed the obvious here. I was trying to get Windhoes to install over linux, like in reformatting for Windhoes. But, then I still have to face DOS vs Grub...right?! So how then can I get rid of grub so I can just stick the windhoes disc in and wipe it all. Mr.Clean style. I've saved all my important files, so I don't care what happens in the way of saving anything.

Thank you all for all this help. I can feel it. A no-more-headache-dual-boot is just around the corner!
 
Old 09-22-2006, 02:36 AM   #10
timmeke
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First off, yes, you took the less-than-easy option, but you should be able to get it working anyway, so don't be too discouraged yet.
Keeping a backup copy of all your important files is indeed a very good idea, as repartitioning may require reformatting.

Quote:
I was trying to get Windhoes to install over linux, like in reformatting for Windhoes
Actually, you were trying to install Windows besides an already installed Linux. Only the boot loader (Grub) will actually get overwritten by this.

Quote:
So how then can I get rid of grub so I can just stick the windhoes disc in and wipe it all
The Windows install will overwrite Grub with NT boot loader (it's own boot loader) and allows, via fdisk, to
repartition your hard disk. When you repartition, you can also wipe everything.
The main issue, I believe, is however still un-addressed: you still can't boot from your Win CD, so how would you go about installing Windows then, even if you were to wipe everything on the disk and start all over?

The FAT32 partition, in itself, has no impact on the booting of Windows from CD.
It merely offers a place to put your Windows installation.

Also, you don't need to eliminate the existing Grub by hand to get your Windows CD to boot. If the Win CD doesn't boot on your machine (or any other), and your Linux CD does, then I suppose there's something wrong with your Win CD.
Grub is only used to boot from your hard disk, which is only done after BIOS tried to boot from CD (as you indicated), so it can't affect your booting from CD issues.

So, for starters, you should try to check if the CD is bootable (by examining the boot flag or some other special indication on the CD itself).
And please post some details as to how you copied the Win install CD. My guess is that this copy didn't include the necessary boot parts.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 07:53 AM   #11
dogged28
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you stated earlier that the cd works in other machines with the same os. do you mean with windows? also, have you tried any other type of bootable cd such as another linux distro just to test your rom drive or did you say that works too already and i missed it? will your computer boot from floppy? if so, try a boot manager to tell bios to boot from cd. they work, i use them on old laptops that can't boot from cd.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 11:29 AM   #12
MUni_rider
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My Windhoes CD works for reformatting other Windhoes computers. I've used it a few times on some old pIIIs and pII's. I tested the CD again and the computer reads it. (I didn't try booting it, because I'm on my school account...I've already got in trouble for using a live Puppy CD. ha ha. Windhoes security is like a rock, but the second you add Linux, it might as well be like Meringue)

My Win CD reads like this in Konqueror:
Quote:
Files:
Docs
Dotnetfx
i386
support
valueadd

autorun.inf
readme.htm
setup.exe
setupxp.htm
win51ip
win51ip.sp2
As for boot flags, that's all new to me. I got my cd from a friend and then put it on a regular CD-R.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 04:20 PM   #13
dogged28
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so you've only used the cd to format other drives but never for an install is that correct? try booting to the live puppy cd and see what happens.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 05:07 PM   #14
bernied
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I don't think windows/DOS likes extended partitions. hda6 is a logical partition inside an extended partition. You need to make some space in a primary partition. Here's the output from fdisk -l on my machine as an example:
Code:
$ sudo fdisk -l
.
.
.
Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1        4864    39070048+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda2            4865        7295    19527007+   c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)
/dev/sda3            7297        7332      289170   83  Linux
/dev/sda4            7333        9729    19253902+   5  Extended
/dev/sda5            7333        7417      682731   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6            7418        9729    18571108+  83  Linux
From this you can see that sda1 through to sda4 are primary partitions, sda4 is an extended partition, which means it holds logical partitions. sda5 and sda6 are logical partitions inside sda4 (look at the start and end numbers).

There is a maximum of four primary partitions, and linux always calls them 1-4, so if you have the third partition as an extended partition, with a couple of logical partitions inside, those logical partitions will be called 5 and 6. And if you have another primary partition after those, then it will be called 4. So, just because you have a hda6, doesn't mean you've run out of primary partitions - but you might have anyway.

Windows usually likes it to have the boot flag set on its partition as well - see that asterisk next to hda1.

You can do this stuff in qtparted or in fdisk.

Post the output to fdisk -l on your machine - fdisk should be in most distros, but it needs to be run as root - and we'll work out how to do it.
 
Old 09-22-2006, 05:15 PM   #15
bernied
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And, for an easy way to reinstate your grub mbr after windows toasts it, use dd to copy it before you do the windows install, then dd to put it back again after. I pinched this from this site - http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/GRUB.htm

To copy the mbr to a file (in this case MBRhda.bin in the current directory):
Code:
#  dd if=/dev/hda of=MBRhda.bin bs=512 count=1
And to copy it back:
Code:
# dd if=MBRhda.bin of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1
 
  


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