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Old 01-16-2007, 09:55 PM   #16
Hadhubhi
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Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Gentoo Linux
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Xmarks, you apparently have something lodged in your buttocks. You may want to do something about that.

You mention the "zillion error messages" in Linux. I find that is one of the strong points of Linux. When something goes wrong, I get clear error messages telling me what's wrong. Granted, sometimes, it isn't clear what they mean. Fortunately, Google allows me to discover whether others have had and solved the same problem. If Linux distros ever get to the point where they are so afraid of having intimidating looking errors and warnings, that they eliminate them in the name of simplicity, Linux will have lost much of its appeal to me, at least.

And does his post make sense to a non-computer scientist? Yes, actually.

Since you've been using computing machines for all these years, I would assume that you would be familiar with the fact that *gasp* sometimes, simple stuff won't work correctly in odd hardware/software configurations.

But yeah. These damn Usenet people making useful things and then helping others with them. I think that's the REAL problem here.
 
Old 01-16-2007, 10:00 PM   #17
Xmarks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadhubhi
Xmarks, you apparently have something lodged in your buttocks. You may want to do something about that.

You mention the "zillion error messages" in Linux. I find that is one of the strong points of Linux. When something goes wrong, I get clear error messages telling me what's wrong. Granted, sometimes, it isn't clear what they mean. Fortunately, Google allows me to discover whether others have had and solved the same problem. If Linux distros ever get to the point where they are so afraid of having intimidating looking errors and warnings, that they eliminate them in the name of simplicity, Linux will have lost much of its appeal to me, at least.

And does his post make sense to a non-computer scientist? Yes, actually.

Since you've been using computing machines for all these years, I would assume that you would be familiar with the fact that *gasp* sometimes, simple stuff won't work correctly in odd hardware/software configurations.

But yeah. These damn Usenet people making useful things and then helping others with them. I think that's the REAL problem here.
You're right. It's all a conspiracy and I'm a Microsoft spy sent here to defame Linux. In the meantime you might want to take a break from trolling and instead go and help the Python guy with the "zillion error messages".
 
Old 01-16-2007, 10:19 PM   #18
rickh
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Quote:
...go and help the Python guy with the "zillion error messages"
I'm sure I could install Python inside of 90 seconds with 0 error messages. There are a multitude of ways to set up your Linux system and make it useful. Granted there is a learning curve, but it's no greater than the learning curve for a complete newbie to Windows. Windows people come to Linux expecting their knowledge to be transferable. Too bad! Linux ain't Windows. Get used to it.
 
Old 01-16-2007, 10:49 PM   #19
alred
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probably people with zillions of error messages when running python need some python's usenet propaganda in-order to stick to it faithfully no-matter what ...

supposingly(not a word though) from the usenet ::

Quote:
python, (Gr. Myth. An enormous serpent that lurked in the cave of Mount Parnassus and was slain by Apollo.) 1.any of a genus of large, nonpoisonous snakes of Asia, Africa and Australia that crush their prey to death. 2. popularly, any large snake that crushes its prey. 3. totally awesome, bitchin' language invented by that rad computer geek Guido van Rossum that will someday crush the $s out of certain *other* so-called VHLLs.

.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 07:38 AM   #20
V!NCENT
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Location: The Netherlands
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmarks
I haven't a clue [...] how the kernel works or the windowing or GUI system.
So you do know how the NT kernel works and you've read the Explorer sourcecode? Interesting...

Quote:
This guy can't even install/build Python with his state-of-the-art Linux. And does his post make any sense to a non-computer scientist? Never mind learning Python language and OOP and using Python. He needs hash-shebang garbage and expert help just to stick it on his system! Then he has to debug a zillion error messages. And THAT is supposed to be a NEWBIE post, never forget.
Newbie stands for New Beginner.

Quote:
All these Linux "advocates" do is move goalposts around so and coerce the direction software development takes, so that they are NEEDED in the future that they envision. And we should be grateful for the "help" they kindly provide. (sarcasm) All this because of Usenet!
No mister, they take the time to code in their spare time for people like you without earning money and they also give it away for free. They are probably losing money by doing it. And yes it's completely normal that if they take the time to help you you might want to thank them for that. There is also a very rich guy that spends his fortune to hire people to develop for a Linux distribution that is meant to make everything as easy as Windows and if not easyer, and for free. The project is called Ubuntu.

If you don't like Linux, BSD, Solaris or whatever... why don't you buy the amazing Windows Vista? If your motherboard dies and you need a new one get ready to spend another 399 dollars just for reactivation. But don't forget to keep bashing people that take the time to help others and some of them even losing money by doing that.

Edit: typo, gammer

Last edited by V!NCENT; 01-17-2007 at 07:39 AM.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 08:51 AM   #21
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmarks
You're right. It's all a conspiracy and I'm a Microsoft spy sent here to defame Linux. In the meantime you might want to take a break from trolling and instead go and help the Python guy with the "zillion error messages".
My my--it seems we have an attitude here.
First, hadhubi wasn't trolling--he was responding to your post (which, by the way, was sort of hijacking the thread)
Given your feelings about Linux and the community, suppose you tell us what you are doing here?
 
Old 01-17-2007, 11:20 AM   #22
Xmarks
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Registered: Jan 2007
Distribution: Damn Small Linux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alred
probably people with zillions of error messages when running python need some python's usenet propaganda in-order to stick to it faithfully no-matter what ...

supposingly(not a word though) from the usenet ::

.
If you're the type of guy who gets intimidated by nameless trolls telling you you have something stuck in your ass LOL whenever you criticise Linux, then you might well be influenced by Usenet's endless stream of rubbish enthusing about difficult and unsupported garbage like Python. But crap is crap, and if you enjoy having to rely on voluntary help given by anonymous entities on the web, then you should stick with the crap you love.
BUT: there are no prizes for successfully installing (LOL) and using Python. You just get imaginary status from an anonymous surrogate peer group, which just happens to consist of the aforementioned nameless wackos.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 11:39 AM   #23
indienick
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Look, Xmarks, I'm reading through all of your posts, because I'm really not liking the attitude you're taking with this. First, you hijack rony2's thread, and then you start trashing Linux, left, right and centre.

If you are so discontented with Linux, then why are you subjecting yourself to it? Uninstall Linux, get an MSDN membership, and receive the development copy of Windows Vista, or just get an ISO off of BitTorrent - whatever it takes, as long as it will shut you up.

As for that "newbie" post you were ragging on, it's that sort of thing that those of us here with a little bit of experience appreciate...if something doesn't work and gives you errors, give us the errors, and we can help you with the issue. That newbie post was perhaps one of the best I've ever seen - it was helpful, the user in need of help gave all the necessary information, from complete error messages, alternate attempt methods and distribution.

What's more, if you are so angered by Linux, why on Earth did you get an account at this forum? I understand you can freely join, but why do you insist on being such a sh*t-disturber. From the rant you're going on, it seems as though you are purposely jabbing yourself with a used syringe you found in an alley-way.

And as for Python being "unsupported garbage", have you even had a look at ActiveState? They are a company who takes the top non-Windows programming languages, and ports them to Windows. And wouldn't you know it, their ActivePerl and ActivePython builds happen to be the most popular.

Since you are is complete opposition to Linux, and Windows might not be an option for you, I'm sure you could find a copy of O/S2 floating around.

Last edited by indienick; 01-17-2007 at 11:43 AM.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 12:58 PM   #24
Xmarks
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If you read my posts, you will know why I got an account on this forum. I am in no way a supporter of Linux. I am a user of Linux. Usenet skillz won't get you anywhere here or in real life (and yes, there is a difference there too). Frankly the sort of help I prefer is where the assistant risks losing their job if they're rude, and where the customer is always right. But you go ahead and enjoy your ego-trip and go for it. It's like 1992 all over again!
 
Old 01-17-2007, 02:02 PM   #25
rony2
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I had heard a lot of positive things regarding Linux and that is why I wanted to try it. It sounded terrific that all these gurus all over the world were writing script to make it better. Now after asking this question I'm not so sure. If all this energy were indeed piped to improving a single OS I can't even imagine the results. If you have these same people all writing for different versions of Linux don't you just end up with a mess? Or, many messes!!
 
Old 01-17-2007, 02:09 PM   #26
rickh
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Quote:
If you have these same people all writing for different versions of Linux don't you just end up with a mess? Or, many messes!!
Get one of the major Distros installed, then see whether or not you think that's a fair question.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 02:22 PM   #27
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rony2
I had heard a lot of positive things regarding Linux and that is why I wanted to try it. It sounded terrific that all these gurus all over the world were writing script to make it better. Now after asking this question I'm not so sure. If all this energy were indeed piped to improving a single OS I can't even imagine the results. If you have these same people all writing for different versions of Linux don't you just end up with a mess? Or, many messes!!
I can't tell if you are speaking about the Linux mess---or maybe just the mess created by one poster's bad attitude......

Let's look at where the time goes:
  1. Kernel developer: This helps everyone
  2. Application developer: Most of the work is in designing an applications that is useful and then getting it coded. At least in open source, the developer will use any of various standard libraries. There may be a bias to the desktop to be used--eg Gnome or KDE, but otherwise, the libraries are pretty generic.
  3. Utility developer: Pretty much the same as for the Kernel---ie utilities are usable on all distros
  4. End user: The end user can take what we have so far and create a working system. Because this can take a lot of time and knowledge, there is another layer:
  5. Packager: The Packager creates a "distribution" in which libraries are set up to support the standard "core" apps, and then some form of packaging scheme is provided to manage things that you want to add.

Each person or company that contributes to this process is adding value which directly or indirectly benefits every user of Linux. It may seem like a mess, but the open and shared development is a net strength.

This said, several of us here at LQ have argued that newcomers who want to contribute should not start by creating Yet Another Distro. We would rather they focus on problems common to all. However, these fringe distros mostly just waste the time of the authors---there is no ill effect on the user community at large.

Last edited by pixellany; 01-17-2007 at 02:23 PM.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:14 PM   #28
rony2
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I must have had eight different recommendations to my request for a recommendation. OK I guess I need to be more specific.

I want to try Linux. I need an operating system, word processor, spreadsheet, mail program and browser. It needs to work with my printer, home network and DSL. That is the OS and applications as I know it. What is recommended and what else do I need. Where is a good place to find those things. I may be a newbie to Linux but I am a long time computer user. I don't want to spend a lifetime RE-discovering Linux, I'd just like to start using it.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:28 PM   #29
rickh
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Nobody here can tell you which distro will prove the most satisfactory to you. Read thru these summaries carefully, ... http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major ... and pick one that sounds like something you can live with. Any of them are capable of providing everything you ask, but some are more difficult to install and configure than others. The summaries will make clear which is which. If you have specific questions about what you see there, people will be happy to answer them, but you have to understand that our opinions are flavored by our own prejudices about which distro is best.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:58 PM   #30
rickh
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One other thing you should consider ... Learning Linux involves a lot of reading and studying ... The link in post #18 would be a good place to start.
 
  


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