LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Linux Power User Bundle
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 01-03-2015, 08:11 AM   #16
Hangdog42
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Maryland
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 7,803
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel View Post
Could you be so kind to enlighten me what kind of difficulties I might experience with Kali?
I don't know that there are any specific difficulties that need mentioning other than Kali, like its predecessor Backtrack, are theoretically aimed at penetration testing and therefore are making the assumption that users installing these distros at least have a reasonable clue how to deal with Linux. I mean, would you hire someone to do penetration testing on your computers who didn't have a firm grasp of the command line or could function on a computer that didn't have a GUI? In terms of difficulty, it probably isn't any more "difficult" than Slackware or Gentoo. Someone with a brain and a will to use it will do fine. A complete novice won't find any handholding though.

What I personally find offensive about Kali/Bactrack is their focus on breaking stuff. Security should be about learning how to lock things down, keep the bad guys out, you know like NOT putting your passwords in a plain text file named password.txt. Once you've got your system hardened, THEN you can try and break it. But with Kali's focus on damage first, nobody learns how to fix what is wrong in the first place. Would you hire a plumber who only knows how to rip pipes out and doesn't have a clue how to solder?
 
Old 01-03-2015, 08:11 AM   #17
dijetlo
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2009
Location: RHELtopia....
Distribution: Solaris 11.2/Slackware/RHEL/
Posts: 1,307
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
@Teufel
Quote:
Could you be so kind to enlighten me what kind of difficulties I might experience with Kali?
It's like any other Linux distro. The maintainer wrapped some nice tools in it and is trolling for script kiddies
 
Old 01-03-2015, 09:55 AM   #18
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth, end border$! ◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest, has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,110
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840
Talking

If you have backed up (all home netted PC's,) don't keep sensitive data plus under stand the law and no ignorance of it is allowed (or you live in China hehe) go for it... or, install sid for "real danger" [grin] and check out Nmap++.

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html [e-vile-grin] Guffaw!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 01-03-2015 at 09:56 AM.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 10:26 AM   #19
Teufel
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2012
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 510

Rep: Reputation: 120Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijetlo View Post
It's like any other Linux distro. The maintainer wrapped some nice tools in it and is trolling for script kiddies
They desire to occupy a "Linux for hackers" niche, no more.

Though I do not understand, why it marked as a Linux for experts and hackers?
There is nice instruction for hackers how to deal with Kali iso:
http://docs.kali.org/installation/ka...ve-usb-install

Does experts or hackers really need such an instruction? Can someone imagine an expert who do not knows how to put the iso to the usb stick with dd?
It seems for me as usual newbie-friendly distro with newbie-friendly instructions about how to put it on the stick.

Yes, it has some tools for hacking preinstalled. But I hacked my neighbour's wifi few years ago with Ubuntu and aircrack-ng. Does it means that Ubuntu is a distro for hackers and experts?

There are no especial Linux distros for experts only as well as there are no dangerous tools. There are people who can use it properly and who can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e
If you have backed up (all home netted PC's,) don't keep sensitive data plus under stand the law and no ignorance of it is allowed (or you live in China hehe) go for it... or, install sid for "real danger" [grin] and check out Nmap++.
http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html [e-vile-grin] Guffaw!
Do you mean that Debian Sid is something dangerous?
 
Old 01-03-2015, 10:40 AM   #20
Hangdog42
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Maryland
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 7,803
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416Reputation: 416
Quote:
Though I do not understand, why it marked as a Linux for experts and hackers?
Because of the tools they package. You don't let rank beginners do penetration testing on your systems because a) they don't know what they are doing and b) they generally don't know what to look for or analyze the results they do manage to get.

Quote:
Does experts or hackers really need such an instruction? Can someone imagine an expert who do not knows how to put the iso to the usb stick with dd?
Now you're starting to get at why I don't like Kali. The tools on Kali aren't restricted to Kali, they can be run on pretty much any distro. But by packaging it in an easy-to-install distro they are are only helping the skiddies.

Quote:
But I hacked my neighbour's wifi few years ago with Ubuntu and aircrack-ng.
So what did you learn from this? That wifi is insecure? You could have learned exactly the same thing by reading a couple of articles. Did you go help your neighbor harden their wifi afterwards? Or did you just leave them vulnerable? When I interview "security" experts, one of the questions I ask is how to they go about evaluating and hardening a wireless network. If they mention aircrack or any of its kin, the interview is over and they aren't getting hired. This is my real beef with Kali and others, they are putting truly malicious tools in the hands of idiots.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-03-2015, 10:41 AM   #21
vincix
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Distribution: Centos 6.7, 7
Posts: 514

Rep: Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel View Post
Could you be so kind to enlighten me what kind of difficulties I might experience with Kali?
I apologize, it was actually my mistake because I took you for the OP - wasn't paying much attention. That's why I was talking about you installing it!

However, others have already answered it for me. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend Gentoo or Slackware to start with if you're new to Linux, for instance, even if there's enough documentations and so on. For someone who's new to Linux, the experience might be very quite intimidating (I remember trying to configure the wifi client on Slackware and it took a while and I could only bind it to a certain SSID etc.).

But you're also right in that if the OP wants to try it, he should, even if what others said confirms that it isn't the best distro to start with.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-03-2015, 11:52 AM   #22
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth, end border$! ◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest, has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,110
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840
BackTrack ran KDE which is quite user friendly, I used it back in the day as a newb. (I don't know Kali?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel View Post
...

Do you mean that Debian Sid is something dangerous?
Nicknamed after the kid in Toy Story who loves braking toys so technically it could be bad for hardware but I would not worry there, software on the other hand could be fun hacking.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 12:17 PM   #23
onebuck
Moderator
 
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Midwest USA, Central Illinois
Distribution: SlackwareŽ
Posts: 12,549
Blog Entries: 23

Rep: Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943Reputation: 1943
Member response

Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincix View Post
I apologize, it was actually my mistake because I took you for the OP - wasn't paying much attention. That's why I was talking about you installing it!

However, others have already answered it for me. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend Gentoo or Slackware to start with if you're new to Linux, for instance, even if there's enough documentations and so on. For someone who's new to Linux, the experience might be very quite intimidating (I remember trying to configure the wifi client on Slackware and it took a while and I could only bind it to a certain SSID etc.).

But you're also right in that if the OP wants to try it, he should, even if what others said confirms that it isn't the best distro to start with.
I totally disagree with the above.
Most major Gnu/Linux have some form of support documentation that a user should/must read to get valuable information 'RTFM' is good habit to gain useful knowledge and understanding that will aid the new user, be she/he an experienced Gnu/Linux or complete newbie user should be able to read for understanding. When in need of help those same users should know how to compose a query that is understandable so the forum members are able to aid in diagnosis of their problem.

I see no issue with recommending a Gnu/Linux like Slackware, Gentoo or whatever Gnu/Linux that is considered to be difficult. One just needs to learn the semantics, syntax via personal experience or using the valuable documentation to step through using that Gnu/Linux. 'man command' is one of the best documents for users to use in order to learn system basics. Point & click is just a means that is provided by a programmer to express a series of commands. You will learn point & click, not the command level base usage while in the command line. Do not get me wrong as I do use GUI when I want. I feel comfortable on the command line to execute what I want executed to perform a task(s).

Quote:

"Knowledge is of two kinds. We Know a subject ourselves, or we know where we can find information upon it."- Samuel Johnson
Quote:
"The difference between a successful person and others is not lack of strength, not lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will"- Vince Lombardi
Hope this helps.
have fun & enjoy!
 
Old 01-03-2015, 01:47 PM   #24
vincix
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Distribution: Centos 6.7, 7
Posts: 514

Rep: Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,
I totally disagree with the above.
Most major Gnu/Linux have some form of support documentation that a user should/must read to get valuable information 'RTFM' is good habit to gain useful knowledge and understanding that will aid the new user, be she/he an experienced Gnu/Linux or complete newbie user should be able to read for understanding. When in need of help those same users should know how to compose a query that is understandable so the forum members are able to aid in diagnosis of their problem.

I see no issue with recommending a Gnu/Linux like Slackware, Gentoo or whatever Gnu/Linux that is considered to be difficult. One just needs to learn the semantics, syntax via personal experience or using the valuable documentation to step through using that Gnu/Linux. 'man command' is one of the best documents for users to use in order to learn system basics. Point & click is just a means that is provided by a programmer to express a series of commands. You will learn point & click, not the command level base usage while in the command line. Do not get me wrong as I do use GUI when I want. I feel comfortable on the command line to execute what I want executed to perform a task(s).

Hope this helps.
have fun & enjoy!
You might be right, I won't disagree with you, but 'man command' is generally the most cynical advice you can offer to a newbie if it's not accompanied by specific explanations.

In my opinion, you already need to know what you're doing and what that command does before turning to it. 'Man command' is extremely discouraging for the beginner. You only get the most austere syntax, there are virtually no examples and you can't find your way around it (or I guess you can, but without any use). Man doesn't even exist on Centos 6.6 anymore, as far as I know, being deprecated by info, I think? So basically when you forget something (you knew before), man is perfect.
 
Old 01-03-2015, 03:00 PM   #25
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth, end border$! ◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest, has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,110
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840Reputation: 840
I love you
Code:
man
awkward.

I agree too; read and do, repeat. But, we are at a point with Linux distros where... how many people read the microcoughed-windblows manual?

To the OP however you won't be able to use 99% of those tools without reading and reading,,, although the CBT-Nuggets or school are nice too. (;

Last edited by jamison20000e; 01-03-2015 at 03:01 PM.
 
Old 01-04-2015, 01:37 PM   #26
AvinashSam
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2015
Location: India
Distribution: Kali
Posts: 11

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
thnx guys
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration