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Old 06-23-2011, 01:43 PM   #31
tredegar
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Thanks for the follow-up.

Quote:
Those sorry SOBs at HP included code in the BIOS to lock the PC up if you swap out the wifi card.
I am truly surprised by this. I thought a PCIE slot was for putting anything PCIE compatible into. The BIOS should not care.

Some Q's:
1] A quick search on that card shows up: "Intel WiFi Link 5100 - Network adapter - PCI Express Mini Card - 802.11b, 802.11a, 802.11g, 802.11n (draft 2.0) - only compatible with an Intel® Centrino® 2 processor technology-based laptop.
Is that your CPU?

2] Are there any settings in the BIOS referring to the slot?

3] What, exactly, happens when you boot with the new card plugged in?

4] What is the exact model number of your HP PC? (Or, even better, can you provide a link to its PDF manual?)
 
Old 06-23-2011, 10:07 PM   #32
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
I am truly surprised by this. I thought a PCIE slot was for putting anything PCIE compatible into. The BIOS should not care.

Some Q's:
1] A quick search on that card shows up: "Intel WiFi Link 5100 - Network adapter - PCI Express Mini Card - 802.11b, 802.11a, 802.11g, 802.11n (draft 2.0) - only compatible with an Intel® Centrino® 2 processor technology-based laptop.
Is that your CPU?

2] Are there any settings in the BIOS referring to the slot?

3] What, exactly, happens when you boot with the new card plugged in?

4] What is the exact model number of your HP PC? (Or, even better, can you provide a link to its PDF manual?)
No, it shouldn't matter. What is the point of having a standard interface if you are going to block it in the BIOS? As I said before, I *HATE* HP, the sorry SOBs.

1) No, I have an AMD CPU, but this card is known to work with more modern HP laptops. If I had known, I wouldn't have purchased it, but would have gotten another one. On the other hand, what would you expect Intel to say about an Intel card working with a non-Intel CPU?

2) No

3) It gives a 104 error and halts the system forcing a reboot. You are required to remove the card before the boot process will continue. Having found the error and researched it, I find that it is the "infamous" HP 104 blacklist. Continuing my research, I find that HP programmed a few (not sure how many, 2 to 4 I think) acceptable cards in the BIOS. I found hackers documentation on how to edit the BIOS, but I'm not going that route. I probably could manage it, but the risk is making your laptop into a brick, and I'm not willing to risk that.

4) DV7-1541nr, can't find a manual, but here is a link to the support page: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/m...oduct=3979512&

Incidentally, I also have an HP DV-8140us which has the Broadcom PCI card and had the same problem. I also bought it an Intel wifi card and received the same 104 error. Damn HP for deliberately preventing you from doing as you wish with your own hardware.

I'm continuing the search for a solution and have ordered a Dlink DWA-643 wifi ExpressCard/34. I don't know that it will work, but Dlink has a good rep and it was only $27. I removed the internal wifi card to avoid conflicts.

Last edited by Toadbrooks; 06-23-2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
 
Old 06-24-2011, 04:07 AM   #33
tredegar
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Thanks for the additional info.
I have done some reading and that looks like one nasty BIOS.
You might do better with a USB connected wireless dongle. Do some research on linux compatability before you decide which one to purchase.
 
Old 06-24-2011, 06:20 AM   #34
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
Thanks for the additional info.
I have done some reading and that looks like one nasty BIOS.
You might do better with a USB connected wireless dongle. Do some research on linux compatability before you decide which one to purchase.
Yes, I've noted USB dongles that should work, but I have the DLink DWL-G132 and it does not. Besides, I don't want to lose another USB port, and the ExpressCard slot is just sitting there looking lonely. Finally, the ExpressCard should be just as fast as PCI-E, and I don't want to be limited there either. Appreciate the advice.
 
Old 06-24-2011, 07:41 AM   #35
tredegar
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I'm getting that boxed-in feeling after hitting too many walls!

Your situation:
You want to stay with 10.04
ath5k is broken with the current kernel for 10.04
You have an AMD CPU and a 64-bit installation (which is maybe why the DWL-G132 does not work).
You cannot fit another PCIE wireless card without hacking your BIOS, which you do not wish to do.

The only way out I see is to refit your original PCIE wireless card, and install a newer kernel, where ath5k works properly. This seems "scary" but is really very straightforward. I had to install a specially hacked kernel (it's here) to get a sony VPC-Z11 laptop to boot ubuntu 10.10. It was easy and has worked well for months now.

From the link I gave you earlier, the steps are really very simple:

Code:
sudo -i
# In the next line remove the space between http and :// 
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-headers-2.6.33-020633_2.6.33-020633_all.deb
# In the next line remove the space between http and ://
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-headers-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
# In the next line remove the space between http and ://
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
dpkg -i linux-headers-2.6.33-020633_2.6.33-020633_all.deb
dpkg -i linux-headers-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
update-grub
reboot
When the grub menu appears, choose the 2.6.33 kernel (it is likely to be the first in the list anyway).

See if the wireless works (check that ath5k is being loaded, it should be).

No harm is done, and if you want to go back to your original configuration, just boot to your old kernel (from the grub menu) and remove the new one like this:

Code:
sudo -i
dpkg -r linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
dpkg -r linux-headers-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
dpkg -r linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_amd64.deb
update-grub
reboot
I think it is worth a try before you spend more money on hardware that will not work.
 
Old 06-24-2011, 10:13 AM   #36
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
I'm getting that boxed-in feeling after hitting too many walls!
I've had that boxed in feeling for a while now. I've been working on trying to find a solution for this off-and-on for two years now, ever since I first loaded 10.04. Aside from being shat on by HP, I find that a number of threads discussing this problem seem to just end without any solution being identified.

I wish I knew whether you knew the ExpressCard wasn't going to work, or if that's just an opinion based on the trouble I've had so far. In any case, it shouldn't be the BIOS stopping me this time. Have I mentioned how much I HATE HP?

Meanwhile there are only so many hours in a day and I have to travel next month, so I need a quick and non-experimental solution. Plus frankly, my time is worth far more than $27. The Expresscard shipped yesterday.

I will try the new kernel solution you mentioned. I've been meaning to edit out the unused previous kernels anyway - I just alway have to look up grub commands because I don't use them that often. I will post the results for both the machines I have. This thread, at least, is going to end with a solution.

Thanks again for all your help,
Toad
 
Old 06-24-2011, 10:22 AM   #37
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
You have an AMD CPU and a 64-bit installation (which is maybe why the DWL-G132 does not work).
Actually, I have no problem with backing down to 32-bit, if you think that would help. I don't want to stray away from the LTS distributions and don't plan on leaving 10.04 until 12.10 is released (at which point I will use 12.04.)

Also, the other machine I have (HP DV-8140us) has the Broadcom wifi card. It shouldn't be being affected by the ath5k driver. I'll try the .33 kernel there as well, but if you have other suggestions, I'd be glad to try them.

Regards,
Toad
 
Old 06-24-2011, 10:28 AM   #38
tredegar
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Quote:
I wish I knew whether you knew the ExpressCard wasn't going to work, or if that's just an opinion based on the trouble I've had so far.
I don't know for sure, but it seems your BIOS has a whitelist of acceptable PCI-E cards, and if this card isn't on that list then ....
Quote:
I will try the new kernel solution you mentioned.
Good.
Quote:
I've been meaning to edit out the unused previous kernels anyway - I just alway have to look up grub commands because I don't use them that often.
You can't really do this by editing grub (which is "grub2" on 10.04 and up), so just use synaptic to remove the kernels you no longer need, and then run update-grub.
I always keep a couple of older kernels in case of trouble.
 
Old 06-24-2011, 04:54 PM   #39
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
I don't know for sure, but it seems your BIOS has a whitelist of acceptable PCI-E cards, and if this card isn't on that list then ....
Well I was assuming (yes, I know all about assumptions) that PCI-E and Expresscard aren't the same thing. I can see how they can fix it so I can't alter from their acceptable list of PCI-E cards, but I don't see how they can do that for ExpressCard slots. And if they can, it might just be worth looking for a lawyer to file a class-action lawsuit. Keeping me from swapping out the PCI-E card they might be able to justify, but I don't see how they could do that about the card slot. That would be like selling you a car and requiring you to use one specific brand of gasoline to run it with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tredegar View Post
You can't really do this by editing grub (which is "grub2" on 10.04 and up), so just use synaptic to remove the kernels you no longer need, and then run update-grub. I always keep a couple of older kernels in case of trouble.
I've been running the current kernel for months. Besides, I invariably hose something up sooner or later and have to reload. Is there any way I can take a copy of the things I have loaded into my system from Synaptic, so I can reload them quicker? The worst thing about doing a reload is having to individually go find, download, and install all the applications I loaded in after having gotten the OS reloaded.

Finally, you didn't say what you thought about possibly downgrading to 10.04 32-bit. I don't mind, if you think there's a reasonable chance it would fix things. I guess I'll have no other choice if nothing else works.

Thanks,
Toad

Last edited by Toadbrooks; 06-24-2011 at 04:56 PM. Reason: spelling ...
 
Old 06-24-2011, 05:00 PM   #40
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadbrooks View Post
Is there any way I can take a copy of the things I have loaded into my system from Synaptic, so I can reload them quicker?
Yes, there is. You can get a list of the installed packages with
Code:
dpkg --get-selections > packagelist
After a fresh install just use this list to install all applications. You can do it this way:
Code:
dpkg --set-selections < packagelist
apt-get dselect-upgrade
 
Old 06-25-2011, 10:07 AM   #41
tredegar
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TobiSGD has answered your Q about reinstalling packages. I just make a backup of everything when I have configured my system to a usable state. Thereafter, I just backup my ~

As for 32-bit, it's what I still use as I have no need for a 64-bit system ( eg a massive database, huge amounts of RAM etc.), and more things (eg flash) seem to be happy with 32-bit, although 64-bit is getting better.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:21 AM   #42
Toadbrooks
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Thanks for the answers. One more, please. If I choose to drop back to 32-bit, does it change the kernel loading commands you gave me? (I assume yes.) Could you give me the new set?

Meanwhile, I did the kernel upgrade and it did load the wireless. Haven't tested it, but it does detect the networks I know to be in the area. On the other hand, it hosed my video playback. SMPlayer only does the audio and Mplayer is jerky.

So, I'm figuring that trying 32-bit is the next step, but I'm fairly sure the commands you gave me are for the 64-bit only.

Finally, I'm thinking that if no other solution presents itself, I might use the 2.6.33 kernel when using wireless, and the 2.6.32 when I have a wired connection and want the video to work. I'm sure there is a way to make grub give me a few seconds to choose between the available kernels. Could you tell me what it is?

Thanks,
Toad
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:17 AM   #43
tredegar
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Assuming you have a 32-bit install of 10.04.
Apply the updates.
Reinstall your favourite packages as suggested by TobiSGD

To install the updated 32-bit kernel:
Code:
sudo -i
# In the next line remove the space between http and :// 
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-headers-2.6.33-020633_2.6.33-020633_all.deb
# In the next line remove the space between http and :// 
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-headers-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_i386.deb
# In the next line remove the space between http and :// 
wget http ://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.33/linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_i386.deb
dpkg -i linux-headers-2.6.33-020633_2.6.33-020633_all.deb
dpkg -i linux-headers-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_i386.deb
dpkg -i linux-image-2.6.33-020633-generic_2.6.33-020633_i386.deb
exit
Now you need to edit grub's defaults so it shows you the menu, and gives you time to choose.

Code:
gksudo gedit /etc/default/grub
The relevant bits of mine look like this
Code:
GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0
GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=true
GRUB_TIMEOUT=2
Do not change anything else in that file.
I have a 2-second timeout to use the down arrow and select a different kernel. The moment you hit the down arrow, the timer stops. Select the kernel at your leisure. Press return to boot it.
Now
Code:
sudo update-grub
Then cross your fingers and.... reboot.
 
Old 06-28-2011, 08:13 AM   #44
Toadbrooks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Yes, there is. You can get a list of the installed packages with
Code:
dpkg --get-selections > packagelist
After a fresh install just use this list to install all applications. You can do it this way:
Code:
dpkg --set-selections < packagelist
apt-get dselect-upgrade
Thanks very much! I'm going to experiment a lot more, because having a method to do a quick reload helps immensely.

Question: The list that the --get command produces ... Will it work regardless of which kernel I have installed? I mean, if I swap between 64 and 32 bit, or between kernels or distributions, will it choke on things? I wouldn't expect the 32-bit kernel to be able to load a 64-bit package, but I would hope it would give a reasonable error message, load the correct version, or at least not HCF (Halt-and-Catch-Fire, a famous early assembly language operation.)

I produced the list using the method you gave, and it has about 1100 packages. Copied it to a 16 Gig flash drive, along with my home directory. If 95% of them would reload correctly and I got reasonable message for the rest, it would be a snap to reload when I need to.

Thanks,
Toad

Last edited by Toadbrooks; 06-28-2011 at 08:17 AM. Reason: spelling ...
 
Old 06-28-2011, 08:38 AM   #45
tredegar
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Quote:
Will it work regardless of which kernel I have installed?
Some parts of it might work, others will not. For example, when I look at the output of dpkg --get-selections I see things like linux-image-2.6.32-32-generic which is obviously not going to be appropriate if I moved to a 64-bit kernel.

A better idea might be just to keep a list of the additional packages you install after the base install, and then just install that list again, should you need to reinstall.

Finally, there's always the "take a backup" and "restore the backup" method.
 
  


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