LinuxQuestions.org
Download your favorite Linux distribution at LQ ISO.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Newbie
User Name
Password
Linux - Newbie This Linux forum is for members that are new to Linux.
Just starting out and have a question? If it is not in the man pages or the how-to's this is the place!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 09-19-2011, 02:10 PM   #31
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825

I see various problems here:
1. You seem not to know much about Linux. The people you will give it to will abandon it soon if they can't ask you if they have problems with it and go back to Windows, just because it is familiar and they know how to do their things with it.
Solution: Learn Linux, not only how to use it but also how to troubleshoot it and which are the correct terms used in Linux.

2. The downloading packages and install it on a different computer way is not the Linux way. It will work, if you know how to do that, but it is not as easy as doing that on Windows.
Solution: Set up a Linux system exactly the way you want to distribute it (may be in a virtual machine) and then use tools like Remastersys, Live-Builder or the Linux Live scripts to make an ISO for redistribution. But this will bring you back to problem 1, you have to learn first.

3. Even if you do that for charity there may be legal issues when distributing copyrighted codecs or software that can be used to circumvent copy protection, for example DeCSS for playing (and ripping) commercial video DVDs. I don't know how the laws cope with that in the various African countries, but it may be better for you to look that up before starting your project.


Quote:
but the reason I am not going into that is that matching open source with Africa -- at least the part I am going -- is an eh...combination that guarantees many surprises of the unthinkable kind...
I am curious about that, can you please explain what you mean with that?
 
Click here to see the post LQ members have rated as the most helpful post in this thread.
Old 09-19-2011, 02:43 PM   #32
snanders
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 15

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Reply to theNbomr:
Years ago I considered switching to Linux but decided against it, because of the software problem.
As perceived by me, I might ad. Seems to be a lot better now.
Now that I am motivated to dig into Linux again for the purpose of promoting it in Africa I will probably make the switch myself as well. (Really dislike windows).

I have managed to download some of the software I was looking for.
For more I will go on line when in Africa, as this seems to be the more convenient way to go.
Besides, students there will have to familiarize themselves with it as part of the Linux experience.

Thanks again.

Last edited by snanders; 09-19-2011 at 02:49 PM.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 03:15 PM   #33
snanders
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 15

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Reply to TobiSGD:
1. Correct, see above post. I am not (yet) familiar with Linux.
I am dealing with youth whom I send for IT courses, it is them who should do the learning.
It is for me to make that happen.
En yes, I might become an expert of sorts in the process as well.

2. That's what I learned from this topic, that we should really go on line for this.

3. where I am going there's no market, no money. Totally not interesting for the greedy patent based part of humanity.
Where illegal copying occurs in this part of the world no money is lost because there is no money there.
Besides this is not my objective. I simply provide them with training, hardware and some software hoping this will allow them to escape unemployment and poverty.
What they do with their knowledge will not really differ from what happens in the rest of the world.

What I mean with surprises of the unthinkable kind?
You seem not to know much about Africa...
Let's just say that at this point having them experimenting with source codes would be a bridge to far.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 04:08 PM   #34
MTK358
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,443
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 720Reputation: 720Reputation: 720Reputation: 720Reputation: 720Reputation: 720Reputation: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by snanders View Post
What I mean with surprises of the unthinkable kind?
You seem not to know much about Africa...
Let's just say that at this point having them experimenting with source codes would be a bridge to far.
Why? They don't have to look at it, and if you download banary packages, you don't even get it. The important thing is that it's available instead of being kept secret.

And why is this a surprise, and why is it unthinkable?
 
Old 09-19-2011, 04:28 PM   #35
snanders
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 15

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I don't think there's any need for banana packages.
I assume you mean binary packages? You're quite right.
But the wording I used is best appreciated with imagination and some knowledge of african peculiarities, it does not refer to Linux technicalities nor does it appeal to reason and logic.
See also my last sentence of your quote.

Last edited by snanders; 09-19-2011 at 05:01 PM.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 04:36 PM   #36
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Let's just say that at this point having them experimenting with source codes would be a bridge to far.
So you mean that it is a good idea to give them the software, but keeping them from learning the inner workings and may be even improve it? To keep them from learning programming, which is a skill that actually can bring them to earn money?

Quote:
That's what I learned from this topic, that we should really go on line for this.
I think you misunderstood me. What I wanted to say is that if it is difficult, to expensive or simply impossible to get online in the parts of Africa where you want to spread the software (you mentioned that most of the people work offline), the right way to achieve what you want to do is to customize a distribution the way you need it and then spread that. This way you can download the software once with the fast internet connections in your country and spread it on installation media in Africa.


Quote:
where I am going there's no market, no money. Totally not interesting for the greedy patent based part of humanity.
Where illegal copying occurs in this part of the world no money is lost because there is no money there.
Besides this is not my objective. I simply provide them with training, hardware and some software hoping this will allow them to escape unemployment and poverty.
What they do with their knowledge will not really differ from what happens in the rest of the world.
The problem is not what they do with the software, the problem is that for a certain kind of software it may be illegal for you to spread it. So the authorities would go to you for the money, not the ones who you are giving the software to.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 04:52 PM   #37
johnsfine
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Dec 2007
Distribution: Centos
Posts: 5,286

Rep: Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181Reputation: 1181
Quote:
Originally Posted by snanders View Post
For more I will go on line when in Africa, as this seems to be the more convenient way to go.
That sounds to me like very unwise procrastination.

You want to undertake a fairly hard task, but you want to put off some important preparation until later when that preparation will be much harder to accomplish.

For example, almost any program you want to use in Linux is available with multiple choices with little to distinguish which choice really fits your needs. Do you want to download and try multiple video manipulation programs in Africa to decide which you can best explain to the people you want to help? Wouldn't you rather get that done now, while downloading many different programs is easy, while there is more time to wait for answers if you get confused and need help here at LQ, maybe also while you have access to a better computer yourself.

If you really want to do what you say, then you want to do significant learning and preparation in advance, probably including writing packages and/or a fully remastered distribution to a DVD.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 05:22 PM   #38
snanders
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 15

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
the problem is that for a certain kind of software it may be illegal for you to spread it. So the authorities would go to you for the money, not the ones who you are giving the software to.
I do not intend to spread software illegally. If I did, I might as well leave them with Windows.
I do not wish to keep them from learning to program, but first things first.
I do not know if most computers are off line, possibly, but IT students have that problem certainly.
Spreading, well I do not have the whole continent in mind. Just a limited number of students.
They can do the spreading if they wish, when they get to maintenance and repair of professionally used hardware.


@ johnsfine
Procrastination? I am doing even more than that!
I leave the spreading to the youth I sent for IT training and will spend my own time contemplating the end of the world.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 06:03 PM   #39
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Originally Posted by snanders View Post
I do not intend to spread software illegally.
Exactly that is what I am saying. You want a Linux for those people that in your own words have software like
Quote:
format converters, cd/dvd copiers,rippers, burners, anti-virus
and those rippers and converters are what I am talking about. It may be possible that in the country where you want to give that software to those people it is illegal to do so, because those rippers may use parts of software, like the mentioned DeCSS (which is needed to rip copy protected video DVDs), that are not allowed there. Do yourself a favor and look that up in the laws before doing so, or you may end up spreading illegal software without even knowing that.
This may also be true for other kinds of software, like encryption software.
 
Old 09-19-2011, 06:26 PM   #40
paulsm4
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2004
Distribution: SusE 8.2
Posts: 5,863
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
1) "Open source":
The whole point (the *WHOLE* point) of "Open software" is so that people can see the source code, learn from it, and improve upon it.

2) "Free ware":
Typically either "junk" (that nobody supports and even the original author(s) don't care about any more)
... and/or ...
A ploy: entice you to "get something for nothing", and then coerce you to buy their product, or give you a virus.

3) Either way, Linux and Open Source are *NOT* freeware.
Which is why we keep belaboring the point.

4) To try to somehow "promote" Linux without sharing the source code is WRONG. Don't do it.

5) To subvert Linux as a way to pirate commercial software is ALSO wrong. Don't do it.

IMHO .. pSM
 
Old 09-20-2011, 03:25 AM   #41
resolv_25
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Croatia
Distribution: Debian 7/Ubuntu 14.04
Posts: 57

Rep: Reputation: 9
Well, you shall learn about linux enough to perform various tasks regarding installation, troubleshooting etc.
I think Ubuntu could be simple enough for transition from windows to linux.
You can download the DVD image with a lot of available software on DVD, in case there is no internet access, you may easily install software from a DVD.
Here is a list of images for ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubunt...ative-download

When you start this DVD, it will guide you through installation, there is option to install Ubuntu next to the windows, i.e. installer will create separated partitions, and install this distribution on it.

Possibly, you will find some old PC's there, in that case, you could try some lightweight distribution as Slitaz, Puppy or Debian LXDE.
Those linux distributions are working on old PC's, even with a 64 MB of RAM, it work with a decent speed.

Anyhow, you should get familiar with linux philosophy and use, otherwise, as someone mentioned, it will not be possible to convince people about real benefit of Linux OS.
If you can attend some intensive course about linux, this would be the best.
Good luck.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 08:43 AM   #42
snanders
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Posts: 15

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
@TobiSGD
I get your point, and will deal with that. thanks.

@paulsm4
I share your view on the use of open source, of course.
But I am also mindful of the concepts 'first things first' , 'step by step' , 'mental overload'.
Programming is not in view, yet. Later? Perhaps, that would be great.

Your view on freeware is partly correct, the other part is that there is a lot of (windows based)freeware that is as good as high priced software. As for Linux based, I have no experience with that yet.

I find your point 3 confusing.
In my (windows)vocabulary freeware simply means that you do not have to pay for it (but may).
I ordered and received (by snail mail) a ubuntu CD for free. THAT is freeware in my view.
Open source is almost by definition freeware. After all, if software is not offered for free, that is as freeware, then the first thing a producer would do is to keep the source code secret.
And yes, some will offer open source software but not free of cost,then it is not freeware but open source software.
The expression 'free software' as well can hardly mean anything else then that it is free of charge.
The fact that in the Linux world it is understood to mean 'open source code that anyone may modify'
is not what 'free' means in any language. It just happens to amount to the same in the case of Linux based freeware.
The confusion seems to spring from the fact that what Linux entails is new in the world. There ought to be a new word for it, but we use existing wording such as 'free' which already has other meanings.
If you do not agree with this, I am curious to know how you define 'freeware'.
Your definition can not be different from what it is in the windows world, that would be irrealistic because Windows came before Linux.

point 4 and 5, your assumption about my intention is wrong. See other posts.


@resolv 25
Thanks for the info.
Do you know if ubuntu runs on 256 Mb RAM?
The Linux philosophy has never been a riddle for me. This philosophy belongs to a world that is in the making: Oneness experience based age of Aquarius, as opposed to now ending Pisces that gave us the illusion of separation, competition, patents, copyrights, war, destruction.

Last edited by snanders; 09-20-2011 at 08:54 AM.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 08:54 AM   #43
resolv_25
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Croatia
Distribution: Debian 7/Ubuntu 14.04
Posts: 57

Rep: Reputation: 9
Regarding Open source software, take a look on http://www.gnu.org (Licenses, what is free software, etc).

Quote:
Do you know if ubuntu runs on 256 Mb RAM?
256 RAM would be to little for a new Ubuntu, in that case Debian LXDE or Slitaz would be a better choice.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 11:16 AM   #44
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Germany
Distribution: Whatever fits the task best
Posts: 17,130
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825Reputation: 4825
Quote:
Originally Posted by snanders View Post
The expression 'free software' as well can hardly mean anything else then that it is free of charge. The fact that in the Linux world it is understood to mean 'open source code that anyone may modify' is not what 'free' means in any language.
So, actually if somebody talks to you about free speech you assume that this is the right to speak without paying for it?

Quote:
Your definition can not be different from what it is in the windows world, that would be irrealistic because Windows came before Linux.
Wrong, the Free Software Foundation was founded on October 4, 1985, the first release of Windows 1.0 was on November 20, 1985. So actually the term free software is older than Windows and is not related to Linux alone. You can get open source software for Windows also, like Firefox, Thunderbird or Open Office (why do you think it is named Open Office, not Free Office?).
 
Old 09-20-2011, 01:16 PM   #45
theNbomr
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Aug 2005
Distribution: OpenSuse, Fedora, Redhat, Debian
Posts: 5,396
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
So, actually if somebody talks to you about free speech you assume that this is the right to speak without paying for it?

Wrong, the Free Software Foundation was founded on October 4, 1985, the first release of Windows 1.0 was on November 20, 1985. So actually the term free software is older than Windows and is not related to Linux alone. You can get open source software for Windows also, like Firefox, Thunderbird or Open Office (why do you think it is named Open Office, not Free Office?).
Well put. Free can be used in the context of liberty, not just cost. In fact, Open Office has now morphed into 'LibreOffice', emphasizing the liberty aspect of freedom.
--- rod.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is HP-UX freeware. cj_cheema Other *NIX 5 07-31-2009 07:16 AM
Freeware for linux cheeseandpenguins Linux - Software 5 05-04-2007 04:44 AM
Need Palm OS Freeware mhelliwell General 3 05-29-2006 03:48 PM
freeware Skiny Linux - Software 1 06-24-2003 03:38 PM
SCORM Freeware??? Kzin General 1 11-03-2001 04:23 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration