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Old 10-06-2003, 06:25 AM   #1
abbasakhtar
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file extensions ? types ? executable files ??


hi, im new to linux redhat 9, and im so confused about the whole linux thing,

in linux, is everything like really command based ? but the graphical interface programs r like, shells for those commands ?

is the haert of using linux, like wot DOS is to Windows 98 ??

does linux hav file types ? extensions ? how does it recognize files ?? without extensions ?

wot is an exe file in linux, wot is an .exe .com .bat .scr executable files in linux ?

wot is the rpm ??

when i download some source from the net, they ask me to do this:

./configure
make
make install

why do i do that ? and why dus the size of the folder increase from 500kb to over 10mb, ??

i tried to install NMap the other day, i did ./configure and make and it wus increasing in file size ??

in windows, for nmap binary it would only take 500kb file size, but in linux why wus it growing over 10mb, i had to shut the terminal down and delete the folder,

why is the nmap thing become so big ? jus for a small tool ??

why cudnt i jus click on configure to execute it ? how does linux recognize binary files ??

i dont have a clue about linux command's, like in DOS u get cd mkdir, etc.

btu in linux i dont no any commands ? how can i learn alot of commands to work with,

wot does su mean in the terminal ?

why does linux programs take up so much file space,

wot dus make and make install mean

wot is an rpm, how do i create an rpm ? is that some sort of installation?

why is there not in graphical based installations like in windows there is installer programs that are exe files, etc.

??

how can i learn from being a beginner to linux to a intermeddiate user in linux ?

see i have so many questions ? so less answers,

and why do some programs work in GNOME and not in KDE ? isnt this a bit stupid ?

this is putting me off linux alot ?? anyway im gona login to linux now and see if i can mess about with it to understand it better,

why is linux getting me depressed
 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:39 AM   #2
XavierP
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Looks like you need to do some reading. RUTE is a very good place to start.

Linux is very different to Windows. For example, rpm is a RedHat, Mandrake, SUSE (and others) way to install programs. You would type in rpm p-ivh <package name>.rpm to install. Some progs have to be configured and made. Others still have to be set as executable first.

It seems that you really are starting at the 'bottom' (not necessarily a bad place to be. I would suggest reading up on Linux and RedHat (Redhat's website has an array of useful documents under the help and support section) and then sit down with your pc and book(s) and play around. Be prepared to totally wreck your setup a few times, but this is a very good way to learn what you should and shouldn't do.

Of course, if after all the reading and trying you still are stuck on particular things, post your questions and we'll try to help.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:44 AM   #3
Mirrorball
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I recommend the Red Hat manuals for a start.
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/
You might buy the book "Running Linux" too.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:53 AM   #4
abbasakhtar
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i dont wuna read all tht technical stuf, id prefer to read user tutorials, people who have went thru wot im goin thru, dont giv me links on books n crap, iv never learned from books, i never do learn from books,

is there any user who can anseet the above questions please
 
Old 10-06-2003, 06:55 AM   #5
abbasakhtar
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also rute link is not working ? i prefer if newbie users who have experienced it help me to understand,
 
Old 10-06-2003, 07:42 AM   #6
Hangdog42
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Quote:
in linux, is everything like really command based ? but the graphical interface programs r like, shells for those commands ?
Yes, pretty much everything is command based, but distro's like Red Hat and Mandrake frequently have graphical front ends for the commands.

Quote:
does linux hav file types ? extensions ? how does it recognize files ?? without extensions ?

wot is an exe file in linux, wot is an .exe .com .bat .scr executable files in linux ?
Linux does recognize extensions, it just doesn't depend on them. If a file doesn't have an extension, it is up to the user to remember what the file is. As far as executables, ANY file in linux can be executable. It's matter of the permissions, not the extension. Do ls -l. See those lines that have r,w and x? Any program that has an x it executable, at least by root.

Quote:
wot is the rpm ??
A precompiled program, ready to install as is, at least for RPM based distro's like RH. RPM files are probably the closest thing in the linux world to a Windows install.

Quote:
when i download some source from the net, they ask me to do this:

./configure
make
make install
You're compiling the program from the source code. ./configure reads the configuration of your computer and looks for any required software. Make does the actual compile and make install installs it on your computer. The folder size changes because you are creating new binary files.

Quote:
i dont have a clue about linux command's, like in DOS u get cd mkdir, etc
Go read Rute. Google for it if you need to. Otherwise, there is a sticky link at the top of the Linux-General forum with a pretty complete list of commands. DOS commands pale in comparison to the Linux command line.

Quote:
wot does su mean in the terminal ?
su is a command that allows you to run a program as another user. In most cases, people use it to become root for a brief period of time. Take make install for example. You should do the ./configure and make as a normal user, but make install probably requires access to parts of the disk that normal users don' t have permission to use. So you type su - and then you'll be prompted for root's password. Once you give it, you can then run make install. When it is done, type exit to become your normal user.

Quote:
and why do some programs work in GNOME and not in KDE ? isnt this a bit stupid ?
Not at all. Linux is all about choice. Ever tried to find a new desktop for your Windows machine? Besides, if you have the right libraries install, GNOME and KDE run each other's software without a hitch. If you're having trouble, start a post on the specific problem. Me, I run Fluxbox and run lots of KDE and GNOME software. It's all a question of if you have the right stuff installed.

Quote:
how can i learn from being a beginner to linux to a intermeddiate user in linux ?
Do stuff. Surf LQO. Pick a program that doesn't work, and get it to work. Write a script to do a chore. Set up a web server. Heck, the best place to start is probably figuring out how to secure your box. Just pick a project, read about it and then ask questions when you're stuck. Did I mention that you should read about it first?

Last edited by Hangdog42; 10-06-2003 at 07:44 AM.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 08:10 AM   #7
abbasakhtar
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hi thanks, i got some of the questions answered, but i dont understand the bit about binary/exe files ? how can any file be a exetuable file ? how do i create scripts ? idnt underdtand none of that, and RUTE is offline jus now
 
Old 10-06-2003, 08:23 AM   #8
XavierP
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Rute isn't offline - I just checked the link I provided. Google for it if you can't use that link - it is provided in several places.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 08:27 AM   #9
XavierP
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Or try The Linux Documentation Project. They have a wealth of information.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 09:05 AM   #10
motub
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Re: file extensions ? types ? executable files ??

The previous posters are perfectly right in sending you to documentation.

However, when you're already depressed, this is yet more depressing, and anyway I feel like testing my ability to answer these questions.

Disclaimer-- this answer does not in any way imply that you no longer need to read the documentation linked to above. READ THE DOCS. Furthermore, this answer is not exhaustive or complete, it's just an overview. There's plenty more to learn as you get used to using Linux.

That said:

Quote:
in linux, is everything like really command based ? but the graphical interface programs r like, shells for those commands ?
Yes. The same is true of Windows, actually. Or are you under the impression that changing your display resolution in the Control Panel isn't also executing internal Windows commands that you don't know and writing to Windows configuration files that are hidden from you the user by default?

The whole point of a GUI interface is to mediate between human understanding and internal system commands, which may be complex and difficult for an "average user" to understand or remember. A GUI can also 'protect' the user from serious mistakes, insofar as it's harder to mess up something unintentionally when checking a checkbox to unhide files than when doing a chmod command in Linux or attrib command in DOS.

The difference between the Linux GUI and the Windows GUI is that the Windows GUI is intended to replace the internal commands, so the user never has to know or use those commands. (This does not work, btw). The Linux GUI is intended to supplement the internal commands. You can use the GUI, you can use the command line. If the GUI fails (or you choose not to have one), the functionality of your PC is mostly unchanged, because there are command line programs for pretty much every use, and because Linux makes no attempt to hide the command line, the user is aware of the command line commands and can use them easily.

Quote:
is the haert of using linux, like wot DOS is to Windows 98 ??

This analogy is not completely valid, but for your purposes, it's more like the relationship between DOS and Windows 3.11.

Quote:
does linux hav file types ? extensions ? how does it recognize files ?? without extensions ?

File extensions are just a (Windows) convention for the user to recognize file types. File types are actually defined by a header in the file itself. That's why even if you change a .rar file extension to a .jpg file extension, you can't suddenly open the file in Photoshop, but can still open it in WinRAR. Changing a file extension does not change the file type. However, in your Linux file manager, you will be told the file type (executable binary, plain text file, compressed archive, shell script).

Quote:
wot is an exe file in linux, wot is an .exe .com .bat .scr executable files in linux ?

There are no such files in Linux, as you already know-- an .exe is a Windows executable, as is a .com file; a .bat file is a Windows batch file (script), a .scr file is a Windows screen saver.

Linux has binary executables (similar to .exe), shell scripts (designated by .sh, similar to .bat files). I don't know what format the screensavers come in, to be honest. I've never looked at the XScreensaver data files.

Quote:
wot is the rpm ??

RPM is a type of installable package (program). Most distributions have some kind of package management to ease the installation of new programs. The Red Hat Package Management system is one of these, used by the majority of distributions-- many more than just RedHat, who created the original system. RPM files are the programs packaged to be installed by this system. However, most distributions that use this system have tweaked it so that packages prepared for the Mandrake version of the RPM system don't work on SuSE or RedHat, and RedHat version 7.2 RPMs don't work on RedHat 9 or SuSE or Mandrake. So if you have an RPM distribution, it is important to install RPMs for the correct version of the correct distribution.

Quote:
when i download some source from the net, they ask me to do this:

./configure
make
make install

why do i do that ? and why dus the size of the folder increase from 500kb to over 10mb, ??

They ask you to do that because you downloaded source files, and source files have to be compiled. Source code is just that-- code. Code is nothing but text instructions on how to create a program (an executable), and how that program should do whatever it's meant to do, kinda like the blueprint for a house. You could read and edit the source files in a regular text editor, if you knew C or C++ or Python or perl or Java or whatever language was used to write the resulting program, just as you can change a blueprint without "hurting" anything, since the house itself isn't built.

To actually turn code into a program that you can run, it must be compiled, just like you have to build with bricks and wood and steel to turn a blueprint into an actual house that you could live in.

The 3 commands that you are given prepare the code to be compiled (./configure), compile the code to create an executable and support files for the program (make) and install the program (make install)-- which means that the last command informs the OS-- but not necessarily the GUI-- that the program is now available for use.

The folder size can increase for 2 reasons-- first of all, source code is distributed in compressed archives (like .zip files), so naturally when you extract them they get bigger. The second reason is that compiling a program creates a lot of new files as the code (which is only text, thus small) is transformed into an executable and whatever support files are needed for that program (such as data files, links to libraries, icons, etc.), not to mention temporary files created by the compile process, etc. This does not necessarily reflect the final size of the installed executable. The process of building a house takes up a lot more space (and makes a lot more mess) than the finished house itself.

Quote:
i dont have a clue about linux command's, like in DOS u get cd mkdir, etc.

btu in linux i dont no any commands ? how can i learn alot of commands to work with,

http://linuxcommand.org/, http://www.linuxnovice.org/

Quote:
wot does su mean in the terminal ?
This command enables a normal user to assume the powers of the root user temporarily. Once you type su and enter the root password, any subsequent commands you type in the terminal window are considered to be coming from root. So you could su then open a configuration file in a text editor with read-write permissions to edit it, without having to log out and log back in as root.

I'm going to skip many of your repeated questions.

Quote:
how can i learn from being a beginner to linux to a intermeddiate user in linux ?

Read the docs linked above. Read other docs linked on these and other forums. Use Linux and try out the things you've read. Type 'man name_of_command_you_don't_understand', or 'info name_of-command_you_don't_understand' into a terminal window (without the quotes) and read the resulting help documentation. Read more. Search Google until your eyes cross.
Quote:
and why do some programs work in GNOME and not in KDE ? isnt this a bit stupid ?
No. KDE and GNOME are Desktop Environments. This means they come with integrated programs that are designed to be run on that desktop environment. They are to some degree interoperable, but "K" programs such as Kpackage, Konqueror, KMix, KDiskFree and K3b (seeing a trend here?) are designed to run on KDE and won't run well under GNOME, just as GNOME applications such as GEdit, GNumeric, GNOME Toaster, GKrellm (there's that trend again) will not run as well under KDE as they do under GNOME, for which they were designed.

You might say that an integrated desktop environment in itself is a bit stupid, and you wouldn't be alone in saying so. Freedesktop.org is working on an interoperability standard for DEs so that the issue won't be as crucial in the future, hopefully. However many users find DEs of great benefit to them, especially if they're migrating from Windows. And overall, they work pretty well.

Quote:
why is linux getting me depressed
Maybe because you're beginning to realize how much Windows users don't know about their computers, because Windows doesn't want you to know-- whereas Linux does. So it's up to you how you want to take that-- do you want to control the operation of your PC, or do you want to be "protected" by the OS, whether or not the OS actually is successful at protecting you or not?

You've probably heard that Linux is about choice-- well, this is the first and most basic choice to be made .

Hope this was helpful in some way, and as always, corrections gratefully accepted.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 09:48 AM   #11
abbasakhtar
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hi, thanks alot, im beginnin to understand slightly, i mit be rushing myself here,

but i dont understand the bit about make install, and all that,

i hav done programming in windows, using c++, delphi, vb,

and i no wot source code is,

i think its the whole directory structure thats pissing me of inlinux like there is no my comptuer c:\ d:\ etc.

the thing is, when i do make rite, that wud compile all the soruce into the binary form right ??

then when the binary is cmopiled ? where do i find it ? and can i move just the binary to somewhere else ? and delete the folder with all the downloaded files ??

am i right here ?
 
Old 10-06-2003, 10:14 AM   #12
motub
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make install puts the binary in the right place for the filesystem (afaik), so you don't have to move it yourself.

The readme file or install file included with the original archive will usually indicate where the final compiled binary will be installed, or you could just do a 'locate program_name' (type this in a terminal) to find it.

You could delete the folder with the extracted files, but then you couldn't uninstall the program because I believe that the compilation files are needed to do a 'make_uninstall". But of course if you decided that you didn't want the program any more, you could just delete the install folder without prejudice. Linux would just think that the program was still on your system, but since you wouldn't try to use it, that shouldn't matter.

I never cease to be amazed at how many people get furious at the filesystem. I'm sure it's very nice that Windows mounts it's partitions to hard-coded locations (C:\ D:\, A:\, etc-- you did know that Windows has to mount partitions in exactly the same way that Linux does, right?), and I admit that being able, as a user, to specify where an install program puts the final binary and data files is sometimes convenient, and often comforting.

It doesn't really make up for the security of knowing that I as a user can't screw up those same binary and data files (because only root has access), knowing that I as a user don't have to remember where I installed X program, because it's either in one of two or three specific, likely locations (/usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, or /opt/), and doing a locate isn't a big deal, or being able to set up the mounted partitions in any way that I want to (mounting shared FAT32 partitions to my personal home directory, giving cerain users access to certain partitions and restricting others, etc). Not to mention that in practice, the only folders I really access are my home, /etc/ and /usr/share/pixmaps. There is a real reason that most folders don't need to be "accessible" (in fact or in spirit)-- a regular user usually doesn't need to know where everything lives, except for the one time that they need to hand-create a launcher.

I do understand that it's very different from the way Windows handles these things, but I don't get why people get furious about the filesystem, since you don't need to manage files nearly as much as you do with Windows.
 
Old 10-06-2003, 12:28 PM   #13
abbasakhtar
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o i c ic,

rite now, i did a

./configure
make depend
make

on the latest WINE which i downloaded,

the folder goes up 2 250mb, where i extracted the files,

so once the make is done, wot do i do next ? do i create an uninstall

make uninstall

or do i install it

make install

then after that, can i safely delee the huge folder, and be able to use WINE and uninstall it if i need to ??

it doesnt tell me where wine installs itself
 
Old 10-06-2003, 05:12 PM   #14
motub
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Maybe you should read the Wine Users Guide, here. It explains how to install, uninstall and configure Wine.

As for compiling from source, this tutorial on JustLinux explains it better than I could.

Have fun .
 
  


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