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Old 04-07-2012, 09:33 PM   #16
TobiSGD
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And like I said, this is not about opinions, this is about facts. Facts are not arguable, so you are right, let's end the discussion here.
 
Old 04-07-2012, 10:11 PM   #17
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
And like I said, this is not about opinions, this is about facts. Facts are not arguable, so you are right, let's end the discussion here.
You want facts, let me give you some. I ran Gnome 3 and added KDE to the mix. When I had both DEs on the one install it was slower than it was with only Gnome 3. This is a fact. I have done it myself and have seen the end result. Argue all you want I have now given you the facts of my personal experience.
 
Old 04-07-2012, 10:23 PM   #18
TobiSGD
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The some of the software you installed ran in the background. Other than running there is absolutely no way for a software to use resources (despite disk space of course, but using up disk-space will not cause your machine to run slower). Have you checked that before making such statements? Where the KDE files on your disk the cause for the slow-down? Or software that was run in the background?
I bet you have not checked that.
 
Old 04-07-2012, 10:58 PM   #19
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
The some of the software you installed ran in the background.
Which is my point. I installed it, just like the OP installed things, and it slowed the machine down.

Why do you insist on getting further into a pointless discussion. I gave the OP some advice from my personal experience you decided based on that advice that I was wrong and decided to turn this into a contest which I deliberately said I did not want to get into.

Well done Tobi, you win, you are the almighty, most high, Linux user of all time. I'm finished here before I get told by a mod to take it private.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 05:07 AM   #20
TobiSGD
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May be you should learn to read the posts carefully.
I have stated exactly what I mean with saying:
Quote:
Neither installing updates nor installing extra software is per se slowing down the system.
Quote:
If you install a few games or other software that only runs when you start it, like for example Blender, GIMP, VLC or anything of that type then the effect on the overall performance of your machine is exactly zero. This differs when you install software that runs constantly as a background daemon, like any kind of server (Samba, FTP, Apache, ...)
That is an exact statement, that is provable. Nonetheless you insist that
Quote:
But it does bloat the system and this has an effect on overall performance.
which is simply not true. But instead of trying to give any prove for your claims you are squirming around that you can't do that because you fear a moderator when you argue about the topic of the thread. Worse, you are giving your personal examples that are supporting my case and when I point that out you get personal with things like
Quote:
Well done Tobi, you win, you are the almighty, most high, Linux user of all time.
My last word on it:
Quote:
I gave the OP some advice from my personal experience you decided based on that advice that I was wrong and decided to turn this into a contest
You still don't get it. When someone asks a question here, gets an answer that can be proven to be wrong and I (or any other member) become aware of it, then, IMHO, it is not only the right of that member to correct that, it is a duty. Misinforming people and then not correcting it because you don't want to argue is not the point of this forum.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 04-08-2012 at 05:09 AM.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 05:51 AM   #21
k3lt01
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I've calmed down now
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
May be you should learn to read the posts carefully.
Ok here is the OP. The post which I answered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubunoob001 View Post
Is there something inherent in the installation of software (even from official repos that makes an OS less stable?).

My experience with Ubuntu and Mint has been that, even when installing only from official sources, that added software ends up slowing the system down, and more importantly leads to more hangups etc

Is this something distro specific? Universal? And is there a way to organize installed applications such that this is less an issue?
To which I answered
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Now back to your initial issue. Updates will over time cause a system to slow down. It is like when you get older you over eat and you put on weight. Because of this you are not as slim taught and terrific as the 19 year old you want to be, you cannot run a 4 minute mile (not that you probably ever could anyway) and your system is starting to tell you it needs cleaning up to keep running efficiently. Computers are the same, if you keep adding things without getting rid of the old unused stuff it is going to bloat and slow down. For Ubuntu and Mint, I would recommend you follow this procedure. Be very careful that you read this thoroughly and heed any warnings. This will help to clean your (computers) system up a bt and may help to bring back some of the older speed you were used to.
To which you replied
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Just to clarify that:
Neither installing updates nor installing extra software is per se slowing down the system.
When it comes to updates, the only thing that could slow down the system is when the new version is more resource hungry than the old one. This is for minor updates, like security updates or bugfixes, almost never the case. Major upgrades, like from Firefox 4 to Firefox 11 can have impacts, but do not necessary have to.
Do you see the bit on bold? these are your words Tobi, so one minute you are saying no it cant then you are saying yes it can. Then you are saying I am wrong when I said yes it can. then you try to argue and claim it is all about facts. Where are your facts Tobi? I don't see any.

So in a bit of frustration with your back and forth after I said I didn't want to argue with you I gave you facts from my own personal experience. These facts you could not refute so instead you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
The some of the software you installed ran in the background. Other than running there is absolutely no way for a software to use resources (despite disk space of course, but using up disk-space will not cause your machine to run slower). Have you checked that before making such statements? Where the KDE files on your disk the cause for the slow-down? Or software that was run in the background?
I bet you have not checked that.
The first part of which agreed with my initial statement but the second part of which asks me if I had checked things? Who do you think you are Tobi? Did I ask you for your help? After I did this I split my hard drive from 4 separate / partitions to 28 seperate / partitions (not that this is any of your business) so I could keep each DE and/or WM separate. Is that ok with you? If I can't fix a problem I'll ask for help but I could and yes it was the KDE extras that caused the slowdown. Separating the DEs fixed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
My last word on it:You still don't get it. When someone asks a question here, gets an answer that can be proven to be wrong and I (or any other member) become aware of it, then, IMHO, it is not only the right of that member to correct that, it is a duty. Misinforming people and then not correcting it because you don't want to argue is not the point of this forum.
I haven't misinformed anyone Tobi. I gave the OP and anyone else who cares to read it information based on my experience. You disagreed which was fine and not a problem. The issue is that you could not or would not let go. You have to come back after saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
And like I said, this is not about opinions, this is about facts. Facts are not arguable, so you are right, let's end the discussion here.
and yet you come back, just like I have, to keep arguing. You haven't corrected anything, you haven't supplied facts that are not arguable, you haven't even given verifiable examples. But you have said and I put it in bold in a quote above
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
When it comes to updates, the only thing that could slow down the system is when the new version is more resource hungry than the old one. This is for minor updates, like security updates or bugfixes, almost never the case. Major upgrades, like from Firefox 4 to Firefox 11 can have impacts, but do not necessary have to.
So YES it can happen even though you are adamant that it cannot. Thank you for providing me with the evidence from your own posts I appreciate it very much.

Can you let this go now? I didn't want an argument. You are correct I don't want to attract moderator attention, but, I'll be dammed if I'll let you brow beat me just because you think you are correct yet cannot give any evidence to support yourself and especially when I can use your own posts against you after saying to often that I did not want to argue with you.

@ any mod who cares to read this, sorry about this, one day I'll learn to act like a duck and let things slide like water off a ducks back.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 06:42 AM   #22
TobiSGD
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As I said before, you should learn to read posts carefully.
Here is what I said:
Quote:
When it comes to updates, the only thing that could slow down the system is when the new version is more resource hungry than the old one. This is for minor updates, like security updates or bugfixes, almost never the case. Major upgrades, like from Firefox 4 to Firefox 11 can have impacts, but do not necessary have to.
Updating from some-package-1.3.2-2 to 1.3.2-3, something that is called a minor update, like it happens all the time, will in almost no case (and I even stated almost in my above sentence) have an impact on the performance. That can be different when you make a major upgrade. Namely in that case when the new version is more resource hungry than the old one. Isn't too hard to understand, is it?
this all was regarding updating, because you stated
Quote:
Updates will over time cause a system to slow down.
That would mean that any long running system would have the need to be newly installed from time to time because of slow-downs caused by updates. I doubt that any administrator of a long running Red Hat, Slackware or Debian system will approve that.

Quote:
Do you see the bit on bold? these are your words Tobi, so one minute you are saying no it cant then you are saying yes it can.
Yes, I see the bits in bold. may be you should try to read the whole thing. As I said, minor updates will in almost no case cause a slow down, in contrary to your statement:
Quote:
Updates will over time cause a system to slow down.
And again, major updates can slow down, but don't have to. This is a can thing, not a will thing.

Quote:
The first part of which agreed with my initial statement but the second part of which asks me if I had checked things?
You are stating that installing KDE on your Gnome system caused things to slow down. This is your experience from that you seem to conclude that installing any software will slow down the system. And that is simply not true. Add GIMP to your system: no slow down. Add a bunch of browsers to your system: no slowdown. Add Audacious, LMMS, Audacity, Ardour and whatever software that only runs when you start it: no slow down.
When I ask you if you have checked if things were running in the background that weren't before after installing KDE (you know, only software that is running can compete for resources), this is your reaction:
Quote:
Well done Tobi, you win, you are the almighty, most high, Linux user of all time.
Quote:
Who do you think you are Tobi? Did I ask you for your help? After I did this I split my hard drive from 4 separate / partitions to 28 seperate / partitions (not that this is any of your business) so I could keep each DE and/or WM separate. Is that ok with you? If I can't fix a problem I'll ask for help but I could and yes it was the KDE extras that caused the slowdown. Separating the DEs fixed it.
So you not only get personal, you also admit that things running in the background caused the slow down, not installing a software.
So to answer your question:
Quote:
Where are your facts Tobi?
You delivered them to me with that sentence, you admitted it yourself, or, to use your own words:
Quote:
Thank you for providing me with the evidence from your own posts I appreciate it very much.
And to answer this statement from you
Quote:
You haven't corrected anything, you haven't supplied facts that are not arguable
Here are the facts that are not arguable (and again I think anyone who knows how computers work will approve them):
Quote:
A program that is not executed can't compete with other programs for the resources, regardless if it is on your harddisk or not.
Quote:
Other than running there is absolutely no way for a software to use resources (despite disk space of course, but using up disk-space will not cause your machine to run slower).

And to answer that:
Quote:
Can you let this go now?
As long as there are wrong statements not cleared up in any thread and I am aware of that I will not let them go uncorrected, regardless if the one who makes those statements wants to argue about them or not. No one here should, just my opinion.
If a moderator feels that I am wrong with that please contact me and clarify that.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 06:56 AM   #23
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
this all was regarding updating, because you stated That would mean that any long running system would have the need to be newly installed from time to time because of slow-downs caused by updates. I doubt that any administrator of a long running Red Hat, Slackware or Debian system will approve that.
Utter rot and you know it. I provided a link to the OP so he can clean his system, never at any stage in this thread have I insinuated that his or any other system need to be cleanly re-installed. You are clutching at straws Tobi.

And with regards to my comment about you being the almighty, if you took that as a personal slight then that is a problem you must deal with. That was my way of giving up and getting out of this fruitless, because you have contradicted yourself countless times, discussion before a real argument started.

Seriously, let go. I have had enough of your senseless back and forth with you saying one thing and then posting the opposite yet still saying your first statement is correct. Fact is, installing or updating software on a system can cause a slow down in performance. You admitted that yourself and I posted the quote in its entirety and in context, something you have neglected to do with my posts, yet you still claim it cannot.

I am done.
 
Old 04-08-2012, 07:13 AM   #24
TobiSGD
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You still fail to read and comprehend. But you are right, arguing with you is fruitless, I will solve this issue with a simple move: up to my ignore list.
 
  


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