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Old 12-20-2006, 02:37 PM   #16
farslayer
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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Willoughby, Ohio
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My wife got to switch to Linux at the same time I did, because my system was the only one in the house that was running. I was rather impressed that once I showed her which application was used to write a text document, and where the icon for the browser was she was fine on her own. I have one windows machine left which I lug out to LAN parties, it almost never gets turned on at home.

Using Linux isn't as difficult as some people make it out to be, but they also try to equate administering and troubleshooting a system to using it.. I can show you many windows users that can't perform those tasks on their windows machines..

Work is a different story. The Main applications are all windows lock-in applications so switching to a Linux desktop is pretty much an impossibility. as a matter of fact the next version of our accounting package requires all workstations to be 1.5 Ghz CPU's running Windows XP with a minimum of 512MB of RAM.. The Servers for the application must be running Server 2003. so much for all the windows 2000 workstations I have on the network, they are incompatible with Microsofts new release of their Dynamics Accounting package.

So like the OP. Switching to Linux at work just isn't going to happen any time soon..
Meanwhile I do run Linux for system monitoring, security tasks, Mail server, etc..
 
Old 12-20-2006, 03:22 PM   #17
penguiniator
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It occurs to me that when people say Linux is not ready for the desktop that often it is the case that their particular work flow cannot accommodate Linux. To me this means that they are not ready for the Linux desktop more than that Linux is not ready for "The Desktop".
 
Old 12-21-2006, 06:44 AM   #18
Electro
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Linux is strong in image editing, video editing, and sound editing. It is fair in office products like word processing, spreadsheet, presentations, database. For email and browsing the web, it is excellent and it is resistant to viruses and spyware.

The following are alternatives to Windows/MAC programs.

Macromedia Director:
None that I came across, but may have to use Gimp, Blender, and dvdauthor to create a decent looking DVD.
Gimp (http://www.gimp.org/)
Blender (http://www.blender.org)
dvdauthor (http://dvdauthor.sourceforge.net/)

Adobe Premier:
Cinelerra CVS (http://cvs.cinelerra.org/)

SoundForge:
Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)
Ardour (http://ardour.org/)

Flash MX:
Flash for Linux (http://f4l.sourceforge.net/)

ACAD14:
QCad (http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html)

QuickBooks:
GnuCash (http://www.gnucash.org/)
KMyMoney2 (http://kmymoney2.sourceforge.net/)
Moneydance (http://moneydance.com/)
Kapital (http://www.thekompany.com/products/kapital/)

DreamWeaver:
D4L (http://sourceforge.net/projects/d4l/)
bluefish (http://bluefish.openoffice.nl)
Nvu (http://www.nvu.com/)

The distribution that I suggest using to ease administrating workstation/desktops is Gentoo.

I recommend hiring some contractors to help you modify, perfect, and add features to some Linux programs. By doing this Linux programs will move forward.

Using just Open Source software can be done. The video Elephants Dream (http://orange.blender.org/) was done with Open Source software. The designers modified the code of Blender to make their jobs easier.
 
Old 12-21-2006, 07:21 AM   #19
robert.wolfe
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Registered: Jul 2006
Distribution: Debian for Sparc, OpenSUSE 11.2, Solaris 9, Debian/x86, Ubuntu Server
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Linux Desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by farslayer
Work is a different story. The Main applications are all windows lock-in applications so switching to a Linux desktop is pretty much an impossibility. as a matter of fact the next version of our accounting package requires all workstations to be 1.5 Ghz CPU's running Windows XP with a minimum of 512MB of RAM.. The Servers for the application must be running Server 2003. so much for all the windows 2000 workstations I have on the network, they are incompatible with Microsofts new release of their Dynamics Accounting package.
I would have to say that I guess I am lucky in this regards in that the majority of the machines I work with at my job are Linux or Solaris based boxes. We only use Windows for our workstations; however we do have a Linux-powered laptop that I tend to favor using over the Windows XP workstations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by farslayer
So like the OP. Switching to Linux at work just isn't going to happen any time soon.. Meanwhile I do run Linux for system monitoring, security tasks, Mail server, etc..
Aren't these just some of the things that Linux does best?
 
Old 12-21-2006, 09:37 AM   #20
smarsh
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Registered: Dec 2006
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electro
I recommend hiring some contractors to help you modify, perfect, and add features to some Linux programs. By doing this Linux programs will move forward.
No disrespect, but the business owner would laugh at us having to spend money to develop someone else's industry. Especially when we can upgrade to the latest windows for only hundreds of dollars (not that we will).

The fact that none of the mainstream companies have ported to Linux underscores why it isn't ready for mainstream desktops. I appreciate the list of alternative software but, that won't work. Our accountant takes our QuickBooks data and does his work. No QB, no accountant. And I doubt there are any firms using Linux alternatives. With graphics, sometimes we bring in a freelancer. They are only going to know the mainstream programs. To get somebody who knows a Linux equivilant and meets the needed skills is still highly unlikely and a risk to our viability.

I guess Adobe and similar companies don't see a viable business model yet with Linux and don't invest in porting to it. By default, they make it a non-viable alternative for us too. (for desktops).
 
Old 12-21-2006, 03:24 PM   #21
penguiniator
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Laughing all the way to the bank

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
No disrespect, but the business owner would laugh at us having to spend money to develop someone else's industry. Especially when we can upgrade to the latest windows for only hundreds of dollars (not that we will).
Not that you won't, either.

When you help develop free software you are not helping develop "someone else's industry". The software belongs to you as much as to anyone else, and certainly it belongs to you far more than any proprietary program you can mention. Developing it benefits you, just not exclusively you. Doing that with money or sweat is your decision. Whether you help develop it at all is entirely your option. But when you purchase licenses to run Windows and its applications, you are helping develop that software by financing it. And that is not optional; with Linux, it is. Point that out to the business owner and see if he still laughs.

No, the ones really doing the laughing are the Microsoft's and Adobe's of the world who treat their customers like suckers by conditioning them to pay outrageous prices for software, some of which is clearly shoddy, and to accept draconian restrictions on what they can do with it while making them believe that they can't live without it.

I laugh when Windows users come around complaining about their operating system and applications and then whine when they find out Linux is different and blame Linux for the fact that proprietary developers have not ported their applications to it. The bottom line is that you are stuck with what you bought, and that is not Linux's fault.

You have been given many valid suggestions to help you back away from being chained to proprietary software and Windows, but you keep throwing out new objections. You seem to be what I call an unhappily satisfied Windows user. Your satisfied that it meets your requirements, but unhappy about your relationship with the "monster in Redmond". You're willing to put up (with that "monster"), but unwilling to shut up when you don't like the help that is offered.

Yes, I'm being harsh, I know. But for six years I've been listening to and talking to Windows users just like you that only want to have the discussion as a set up for stating that Linux is not "ready" for one thing or other. Well, if that is the case, how the hell have I been able to use it exclusively for so long? No, it's you and your work flow that are not ready for Linux.

Don't blame Linux for your predicament. Blame yourself for not thinking ahead about keeping your options open and the software vendors that conspire to keep you chained to their overpriced, restrictive sucker-ready solutions.

If you want options, make sure that what you do is not dependent on proprietary tools and formats. If you feel that is impossible, then either do something to make it possible or put up with the consequences. But don't demand that disinterested third parties (free software developers) fix your problem for you. It is, after all, your problem, not their's.

Quote:
Our accountant takes our QuickBooks data and does his work. No QB, no accountant. And I doubt there are any firms using Linux alternatives. With graphics, sometimes we bring in a freelancer. They are only going to know the mainstream programs.
In an article on NewsForge I found this:

Quote:
I used QuickBooks publisher Intuit's online media inquiry form to ask, "'When will be be able to use the words 'QuickBooks' and 'Linux' in the same sentence?"

A week later, I still had no reply.

I checked the CodeWeavers Web site to see if QuickBooks might work under Linux with their Wine-based CrossOver Office product.

All I saw was QuickBooks Pro with a "Bronze" usability rating, the lowest of the three that CodeWeavers gives. Other QuickBooks versions were shown as "not tested."

On the phone, though, CodeWeavers chief operating officer Jon Parshall drew a slightly more encouraging picture. It turns out that CodeWeavers uses QuickBooks to do its own corporate books -- on Linux, through its CrossOver Office product.
The same applies to Photoshop on Linux. And Photoshop's plugins can be used directly in Gimp with the use of a Gimp plugin designed specifically for that purpose. None of this information is secret, or even hard to find. I found it by typing "linux quickbooks" and "linux photoshop" into Google's search box. How hard is that?

I'm sure similar searches for Linux paired with your other applications would turn up equally useful results. Do some homework. Declaring that you doubt any accountants use Linux alternatives to QuickBooks or that freelancers are only going to know "the mainstream programs" is not doing your homework.

Now, running Windows applications on Linux is not something I would call ideal, or even desirable, but if it helps you free yourself from having to use all proprietary software, then I would consider that a good thing. That Linux can even run some Windows applications is amazing. You have options. You also have an Internet connection. I assume you can think of ways to find more information that would help you make a real decision, that is, unless you are only trolling.
 
Old 12-21-2006, 06:28 PM   #22
smarsh
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguiniator
Yes, I'm being harsh, I know.
If you want to think so.

I'm not going to get into an argument - believe what you want and generalize about me all you need to. If you think we're suckered by the software giants and you've outsmarted them - so be it. I will only respond this one time.

I have been project manager on dozens of applications made in Director and written in VB - still in use as we speak. I understand the software model very well.

There are shortcomings in Windows and that's why we've looked at switching, We've looked at going all Mac and that doesn't work for us either. What I have learned from some very thoughtful responses to my post is that Linux is not where we need it to be yet. If that offends you, that's your interpretation.

It seems like you need to defend and prove that Linux is some sort of savior and that the enlightened can see that and that me (and those you group me with) can't.

Despite all the sleazy games MS and others have played to get to where they are, there's something in business called market share. Linux doesn't have enough of it for software houses to invest in porting the big applications to it yet. Doesn't mean Linux isn't better, it just means that the mechanics of business don't make it so, like it or not. Ever heard of Betamax? Still, none of them are loyal enough to MS to go down the tubes if Linux is what they're customers demand over Win.

I applaud the whole movement Linux has generated and I think eventually it will overcome the way things now work. Business is business and in your examples/advice to me, who will pay for the time and effort to do all the testing, debugging, searching for people who know niche software, retraining, finding a great accountant that works in Linux, etc.? Not you.

Would you buy a new semi-finished HD TV minus a tuner then have to go out and test and try various tuners to make it work, or would you wait for a user ready solution? (rhetorical question)

Bottom line: your suggestions don't wash. The real cost of implementing your strategy would far outweigh the small amount of lost productivity keeping the status quo. If you believe you have an ideology that is worth paying a high price to defend, that's great. Remember, a computer is just one tool among many and an OS is a subset of that. That's business son.

Best of luck to you.
 
Old 12-21-2006, 07:40 PM   #23
penguiniator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
If you want to think so.

I'm not going to get into an argument - believe what you want and generalize about me all you need to. If you think we're suckered by the software giants and you've outsmarted them - so be it.
I didn't outsmart them. Richard Stallman did when he wrote the GPL and created the GNU project. Linus Torvalds did when he created Linux. And a whole host of programmers and distributors did when they contributed all of the code that goes into a complete distribution.

And I'm sorry, but Microsoft and many others have suckered their customers. They are very practiced at talking a great talk. But their history clearly shows that they don't believe in their own products enough to let them stand on their merits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
I have been project manager on dozens of applications made in Director and written in VB - still in use as we speak. I understand the software model very well.

There are shortcomings in Windows and that's why we've looked at switching, We've looked at going all Mac and that doesn't work for us either. What I have learned from some very thoughtful responses to my post is that Linux is not where we need it to be yet. If that offends you, that's your interpretation.
No, that doesn't offend me. What I don't understand is why you are making it an all one or all the other proposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
It seems like you need to defend and prove that Linux is some sort of savior and that the enlightened can see that and that me (and those you group me with) can't.
Sorry, but this isn't some sort of religious issue for me. I don't care whether you are enlightened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
Despite all the sleazy games MS and others have played to get to where they are, there's something in business called market share. Linux doesn't have enough of it for software houses to invest in porting the big applications to it yet. Doesn't mean Linux isn't better, it just means that the mechanics of business don't make it so, like it or not. Ever heard of Betamax? Still, none of them are loyal enough to MS to go down the tubes if Linux is what they're customers demand over Win.
That doesn't mean you can't run them on Linux if Linux is how you want to go. And getting from point A to point B doesn't have to depend on applications that limit your options. Frankly, I don't care if you want to run your entire business on non-free software running on Windows. We didn't seek you out trying to convert you to the Linux religion. You came to us. And we presented you with several options and strategies you can use if you want. No one's forcing you, or wants to force you, to use any software you don't want to use or to follow a path you consider to expensive, time consuming, or that involves more effort than you want to expend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
I applaud the whole movement Linux has generated and I think eventually it will overcome the way things now work. Business is business and in your examples/advice to me, who will pay for the time and effort to do all the testing, debugging, searching for people who know niche software, retraining, finding a great accountant that works in Linux, etc.? Not you.
That's right, not me. It isn't my problem. It's yours. You are the one in a proprietary predicament who is looking, but not quite willing to do what you now see it would take, to get out of it. That's what service contracts and consultants are for. And that was already suggested to you. Now your acting as if it was never suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
Would you buy a new semi-finished HD TV minus a tuner then have to go out and test and try various tuners to make it work, or would you wait for a user ready solution? (rhetorical question)
You mean like buying Windows and then having to piece together all the applications from different sources to get your work done. I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarsh
Bottom line: your suggestions don't wash. The real cost of implementing your strategy would far outweigh the small amount of lost productivity keeping the status quo. If you believe you have an ideology that is worth paying a high price to defend, that's great. Remember, a computer is just one tool among many and an OS is a subset of that. That's business son.
Okay, Dad. We'll just ignore all of the success stories being published on an almost daily basis now testifying to the contrary.
 
  


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