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Old 10-02-2013, 08:58 PM   #1
Traviata
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Considering switch to Linux - several newbie questions as to how and with what


Greetings everybody,

I'm hoping for some friendly advice, as I'm about to enter undiscovered lands...


I'm thinking of switching from Windows XP to Linux; and I'm not quite sure how to go about it. Linux and me seems an unlikely match, as I'm really not very tech-savvy and the thought of ghastly terminals, 'sudo this' and 'cat that' scares me. Heck, I cannot even install XP without my step-to-step-idot's-guide. About 11 or 12 years ago I once tried a dual boot with Win98 and some Linux (Suse, I guess), and it ended in shambles. I just never got the hang of it; and then the dual boot thingy screwed up royally and that was the end of it.

Anyhow, I'd like to try again in hopes of a more noob-friendly Linux. After reading around for a while, my choices are down to either

Linux Mint 15 Olivia KDE (or maybe Mint 14 which had nicer reviews)
or
Mageia 3 KDE


Those are said to be newbie-friendly, windows-like and easy to use without writing codelines into any terminals. A third option might be SimpleMepis, but it somewhat got overshadowed by all the Mint articles (for me, which of course doesn't say much).

I picked KDE versions because KDE seems to have a very customizable desktop (I'm always dreaming of a neat steampunk desktop and, of course, I might need some Windows resemblance to get along), but mostly because it has K-Mail, which is told to have an in-built Mailwasher function that allows to review (an delete) emails right on the server before shoveling the whole lumber on the hdd. Also, the Krusader file manager seems to come closest to my Free Commander. But I do have to admit that I probably couldn't part a KDE desktop from any other one if it bit me in the nose - maybe xfce is just as changeable and just doesn't have such a neat website as kde.org...

Linux Mint seems to have the nose ahead in reviews and popularity, and I'm heavily leaning towards it because it's supposed to come with a lot of programs 'out of the box'. It's also told to make no fuss with drivers and hardware.

But I'm also a bit fractious about its short release times (a new version every couple of months or so). I hate change, and once I'm fine with a system, I'd like to keep it. I stuck to WIN98SE until 2008 or so, and only parted with it because I just couldn't get any decent browsers for it anymore. And since I'll likely need a year or so to really get to know the new Linux os, it might be useless if the darn thing quits service after 4 months.

Apart from the 'which-Linux'-problem, I'm pondering what would be the best way to make the change. I've read that the often recommended Live-CD-testing only gives an incomplete impression, as the systems behave a lot different there than in a real installation. Thus I reckon I'd better try the real installation. Since I only have one comp and the mere thought of 'dual boot' gives me the willies, I thought of installing the Oracle Virtualbox and run Linux as a guest in the virtual box. That would allow to keep XP for the time being and I'd have a fully installed Linux, Mint or whatever, to check and test and learn. By and by, I might find Linux equivalents for my programs - I've read for example that LibreOffice can read wpd-files, so at least my WordPerfect would be taken care of.

Later on I could change the setup - run Linux as the main os or 'host system', and put XP into the virtual box, as I need it for a few age-old programs I just cannot live without. Or even better - forget about XP and put 98SE in the guest box...

Problem - I never worked with Virtualbox before; and I don't know how stable the whole thing is - or if my comp is big enough to handle all that.

As for the comp, it's an Intel Pentium Dual Core G1620 2.7 GHz with 2 mb cache and 4 gb RAM.

The GPU is a nVidia PCI Express ASUS GT610-SL-1GD3-L GeForce GT 610 1GB

Sound is onboard of an ASRock H77 Pro4-M mainboard and I always have the comp connected with the Hifi-system to make use of the good speakers.


A final question about Linux: how safe is it really?

I go a bit off-track with my security, have ditched my AV along with Windows' security center and fully rely on my old Sygate firewall, Sandboxie and Timefreeze to keep my XP safe. Fool's luck or not - it works well. I run on-demand virus scanners like MBam or SAS regularly and they never find anything.

Since XP won't be supported much longer (not that I ever needed their updates after wsusoffline did its job), I thought of keeping it for my offline programs and the old dears that would never run on Win7 or something and use Linux for mail, ftp, web browsing and my Formula 1 livestream watching. Besides, I'm sick and tired of Windows's activation crap et all - I got a new comp and had a hell of trouble getting my old (properly bought) XP activated. Part of the trouble was that my beautiful dial operated 1960 bakelite telephone was useless for the registration process and I had to beg around in the neighborhood to find someone with one of these new-fangled mobile phones. Never again!!

However, I've read a few not so nice opinions that Linux isn't safe at all and that the old adagio about safe Linux vs buggy, vulnerable windows isn't quite up-to-date anymore.

My tried and tested, beloved security trio of SB/TF/Sygate won't work in Linux, so what's to do? I don't really like the thought of fussing around with any AVs and overblown and bloated 'Firewall Solutions' again. I still cherish that day I had the guts to finally kick out pesky Avira.

As an afterthought, I have my way with XP's windows services and one cannot look as fast as I disable the bulk of them until only 14 are left. But, I wouldn't have the slightest idea what 'services' are fooling around on Linux.

Is there a major flaw in my 'I-want-to-change-to-Linux-for-my-online-stuff' plan?


This is a long and jumbled post with a lot of questions. I'm truly thankful to everyone reading it, and will be very thankful for every advice and thought from you.


Many thanks in advance

Traviata
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:24 PM   #2
frankbell
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I'll try to hit the high points:

As regards security of your own computer, the Linux security model is much more secure than that of Windows. In addition, it is virus-free (there are almost no Linux viruses in the wild), though it's wise to have a firewall. Many Linux users to do not run an AV. I do, because I trust nobody.

Note that Linux comes with built-in firewall capablity (it's called iptables). Generally, Linux "firewall" programs are frontends for configuring iptables, not add-ons, so bloat is not an issue.

Linux, however, is not immune from browser exploits or "social engineering." (That is, if you have a habit of responding to phishing emails in Windows, Linux won't keep you from responding to phishing emails.) However, Linux distros tend to provide security updates more quickly than Windows does.

As regards choice of distro, I have used both Mint and Mageia (I have Mageia on a computer right next to me right now). Either one would be a good choice, though I would lean slightly towards Mint. If you are leary of the Mint update cycle, choose an LTS (long term support) version. Mint 13 will be supported until 2017.

I have used VirtualBox for years. It works quite nicely. There are also other excellent virtualizers, but I've never been moved to try them.

I can understand your "willies" about dual-boot on your only computer. Back when we had the one "family" computer, that kept me from trying Linux for several years. When I finally started with Linux, I was lucky--one of my coworkers gave me a surplus computer, so I didn't have to touch the "family" computer.

You might consider getting a used computer and experimenting with that; if you only have one keyboard and monitor, you could use a KVM switch. (If you were in the US, I'd suggest a computer from Good Will or possibly even a yard sale, but you don't mention where you are).

I can say, from personal experience, that Mint makes setting up dual-boot about as easy as it can be and dollars to doughnuts you can find some tutorials on Youtube.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by frankbell; 10-03-2013 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Spellink, grammar
 
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #3
Traviata
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Thanks a lot for your reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I'll try to hit the high points:

As regards security of your own computer, the Linux security model is much more secure than that of Windows. In addition, it is virus-free (there are almost no Linux viruses in the wild), though it's wise to have a firewall. Many Linux users to do not run an AV. I do, because I trust nobody.
Same here, but then I found out an AV can make more trouble than a virus and come close to Malware itself. Avira, at least, turned out to be a pain in the back, and I was glad when I got rid of it.

Agree with the Firewall - too bad I cannot use my old Sygate. I've read Firestart is very similar to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Note that Linux comes with built-in firewall capablity (it's called iptables). Generally, Linux "firewall" programs are frontends for configuring iptables, not add-ons, so bloat is not an issue.
Oh dear... 'frontend'... 'iptables'... seems I'll have a lot to learn. (Just stuck my nose into this board's security thread and fell out backwards)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Linux, however, is not immune from browser exploits or "social engineering." (That is, if you have a habit of responding to phishing emails in Windows, Linux won't keep you from responding to phishing emails.) However, Linux distros tend to provide security updates more quickly than Windows does.
True, the biggest security hole always sits in front of the comp. As for the security updates, I hope they really are what they say they are - and not like with Windows XP tons of useless stuff that more often than not just screws up the system. After the change from 98SE to XP I quickly learned that the biggest malware onboard was that dreadful thing called 'Automatic Updates'.

(I hope I don't appear too negative - it will take a while to get out of Windows-influenced thinking.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
As regards choice of distro, I have used both Mint and Mageia (I have Mageia on a computer right next to me right now). Either one would be a good choice, though I would like lean slightly towards Mint. If you are leary of the Mint update cycle, choose an LTS (long term support) version. Mint 13 will be supported until 2017.
I thought of Mint 13 - but then I read much about how Mint 14 was a lot cleaner, much improved, much more stable and all in all a heap of a lot better. Even when cutting off half of the praise as new-release-hype, it still seems that 14 was a big step from 13; and so I'm hesitant to take the not-so-good variant.

I also wonder if it is really necessary to have the latest Linux release running. It certainly wasn't with Windows. 98SE was perfectly fine until browser support ran out - years after I was the last dinosaur using it - and my current XP hasn't seen an update since its installation with wsusoffline.

Maybe I can just take a Linux like Mint 14 or 15 and if it runs fine for me, keep on sitting on it until websites start telling me to get rid of my outdated browser...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I have used VirtualBox for years. It works quite nicely. There are also other excellent virtualizers, but I've never been moved to try them.
Sounds good. I haven't tried Virtualbox yet, but I certainly will. If Mint (or Mageia, or Mepis) runs well in it, I see no need for a dual boot.

Because, unfortunately, I cannot afford a second computer, at least not one like mine. I do have an old machine flying around in some corner, but it makes a noise like a vacuum cleaner and isn't very stable - glitch in the RAM sticks, I guess. But alas, everything that requires a screwdriver is out of bounds for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Hope this helps.
It does, thanks a lot for it. And I certainly will keep on reading information and watch the tutorials on YouTube. It's just that it's all a bit overwhelming and I cannot really part between what I need to know and what can wait for later.

Thanks,

Traviata
 
Old 10-02-2013, 10:51 PM   #4
frieza
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to be honest, the command line isn't as painful as it sounds, that being said, there are quite a few distributions, such as debian and ubuntu, that have graphical tools for installing packages and whatnot, and require little to no interaction with the command line for average day to day use. that being said, the 'terminal emulator' programs that come with most desktop environments allow you to paste text into them, so at least at the beginning, a lot of the interaction you have with the command line is probably going to be reading a document that tells you to issue a command, pasting that command from the site into the command line, maybe adjusting a file name or something based on the instructions, hitting enter, sitting back and watching the fireworks :P
but seriously good luck and i bet the more proficient you become with linux the less scary the command line will seem and perhaps you will find yourself using it more often
 
Old 10-02-2013, 11:22 PM   #5
Traviata
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Thanks for the kind words, Frieza! I really hope I can learn what I have to learn, but I'm still glad that Linux - or some distros - seems to be a lot easier to access than what I looked at 10+ years ago. I gave up on it then, I hope I won't do it again.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 11:27 PM   #6
haertig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traviata View Post
Linux and me seems an unlikely match, as I'm really not very tech-savvy...
If my elderly parents (my mom is in her mid-80's) can do it, so can you! They've been using Linux for about 5 years now, and are so grateful to be off of Windows. Linux might seem scary if all's you've ever known is Windows. But truth be told, Linux is a heckuva lot more stable and safer. You wouldn't believe how much crap they had to put up with all the Windows problems. No more, with Linux. I think the LESS tech-savvy you are, the better off you'll be with Linux. Of course, Linux is also the choice of the heavily tech-savvy. It's the people in the middle that whine and complain. They know enough to not be called a "newbie" (in the Windows world, that is), but in the overall computer world (outside of Windows) they are like infants. This is hard for their pride to swallow, and thus they whine and complain about how "Linux is not like Windows".

Go into Linux with the right attitude, a willingness to learn, and an understanding that Windows is not the king of operating systems that every other OS wishes they were, and you'll do great!
 
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:38 PM   #7
frieza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traviata View Post
Thanks for the kind words, Frieza! I really hope I can learn what I have to learn, but I'm still glad that Linux - or some distros - seems to be a lot easier to access than what I looked at 10+ years ago. I gave up on it then, I hope I won't do it again.
You're quite welcome, and yes I started using about Linux 13 years ago myself, so I can understand quite well why you might have shied away back then (I myself lost count of how many times I blew up my Linux installation and had to re-install it back then). Things have changed quite a bit since, so I do hope you find your experiences more to your liking this go around ^^.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:56 AM   #8
Traviata
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Haertig, thank you, those are soothing words...

I think my best bet might be to dive back into the Virtualbox manuals (it seems to be a complex thing, judging from those manuals) and make sure I'll have a stable foundation for the new Linux to stand on.

Meanwhile, I can try and make up my mind which Linux it will be - Mageia or Mint something (14, 15, 13...). Or maybe Mepis.

If there is some point in the one or other distro that might stand out, or a difference to be considered, I'd be glad if someone would tell me.

Also KDE - I read it's a tad overloaded with bells and whistles, which is actually something I don't really like. But then again, I want to customize my desktop - change wallpapers, icons, menu colors, fonts and whatnot - without screwing up the system or damaging whatever is the Linux equivalent for the registry. It seems one can do that with KDE. And as said, Kmail seems to be the only option to get a Mailwasher function, Krusader is like Free Commander and what I saw of Konqueror reminds me a lot of K-Meleon, my favorite browser for a long time. Unfortunately, it got abandoned by its developers.

(My other two browsers are Firefox and SW Iron, but Firefox got terribly bloated and sluggish in the past couple of years and SW Iron is fast and sometimes useful, but just plain ugly. I never got used to the chrome-type things.

So it seems KDE is the way to go, unless of course, I overlook something in my cluelessness.

AS for the whining and complaining of the Windows users, don't forget they're slightly screwed up by their experience. When Frankbell (in the first reply) wrote something about 'security updates', my first thought was "Security updates?? Hell, NO!!" You simply lose your open mind, smell a rat in every flowerbed and Windows is not the king of operating systems, but merely the devil you know (and therefore think you can handle).


Frieza, thanks - and I think things have changed a lot since ten+ years ago. And the settings as well, as I have high hopes the Virtualbox will be a great help in the coming months.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 01:04 AM   #9
graeyhat
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Try to go for a dual-boot system (it will allow you to enter the Linux world gracefully while still being able to use your computer).

Use Windows to partition your drive to make room for the Linux stuff. As for the Linux stuff, that will require two partitions itself (one for the swap area (2.5 times the size of your RAM card is a good rule of thumb) and one big one (maybe at least 32 GB) for mounting the '/').

Mint is good for beginners and for those who just want it to work right the first time. It will also automatically set up the dual boot feature when you do the install.



I personally use Debian along with some pretty complicated partition schemes but the above is the best I can think of for somebody new to the Linux experience. As for your concern about release cycles with Mint, Mint 13 is based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (long term support or something). Go with Mint 13.
 
Old 10-03-2013, 01:11 AM   #10
frieza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traviata View Post
Haertig, thank you, those are soothing words...

I think my best bet might be to dive back into the Virtualbox manuals (it seems to be a complex thing, judging from those manuals) and make sure I'll have a stable foundation for the new Linux to stand on.
hmm, virtualbox is one of those things that is less complicated then it first seems. it's configured through a GUI that is actually fairly intuitive and rather well self-explanatory, a good lot of the more confusing options are optional.

the main process of creating a virtual box
1) create the 'virtual machine' (machine menu, click 'new')
2) you will be asked to name your machine, and chose the OS you intend to install
3) you get to assign it a chunk of ram to use
4) you create a virtual 'hard drive' which is just a file that the virtual machine uses as a hard drive
5) you click 'create'
6) you 'start' the virtual machine, under 'devices' 'cd/dvd' you can either chose your real cdrom, or a linux .iso file you downloaded,
7)let the machine boot (might have to select 'reset' under Machine first
8) install Linux as if you were on a REAL machine, then reboot and make sure to remove the disc from the virtual drive (under 'devices->cd/dvd')
9) enjoy



[QUOTE=Traviata;5039022
Frieza, thanks - and I think things have changed a lot since ten+ years ago. And the settings as well, as I have high hopes the Virtualbox will be a great help in the coming months.[/QUOTE]

you're welcome again
 
Old 10-03-2013, 03:29 AM   #11
chrism01
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Live-CDs are definitely worth a look if you're worried about dual-boot or Vbox.
Handy to get your feet wet and choose a distro you like.

Basically runs the same as normal system, but
1. slower (because it runs off the DVD )
2. you may not be able to save any settings (DVD is read-only)

Note that some Live CDs do allow install to hard disk as an option, saves getting another copy. OTOH, Linux is basically free (avoiding RHEL).

Have a look at distrowatch.com
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #12
DavidMcCann
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Try a couple of live DVDs (or live USB sticks) to see what you like. Mint is very easy to use and has the choice of the Mate (plain) and Cinnamon (fancy) desktops, both less "in your face" than KDE and just as customisable. Also, I'd suggest looking at PCLinuxOS or Mepis for KDE; more reliable than Mageia in my opinion.

Linux should be easier to install than Windows, providing you read the instructions first.

On the subject of firewalls, if you're connected via a router you probably don't need one but you must have one if you use a modem or a mobile phone company's dongle. With Linuxes based on Debian (Mint, Mepis) it's switched off by default. Run the program gufw, click on the "unlock" button and give your password, then click on the "on" button. That's it!
 
Old 10-03-2013, 06:56 PM   #13
chrism01
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Might also be worth having a quick read of this http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
 
Old 10-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #14
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Just adding my 2 cents here.
I just found out yesterday that there is another Ubuntu-based distro (just like Linux Mint) called Zorin OS. It has the look-and-feel of Windows and you can choose and switch on-the-fly from different graphical environments. Anyway, it's worth taking a look. In this link you will find their website and on this one a full review of their last release, and another one here.
Hope it helps!
 
Old 10-03-2013, 09:45 PM   #15
frankbell
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Just a couple of notes.

The Firestarter firewall configurator is no longer supported. There are no plans to make it ipv6-compliant. I had used it for years and really liked the interface.

The Arch wiki has a great article on Linux firewalls. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/firewalls

I'm using gufw now and it's a good substitute.
http://gufw.org/

For an AV, I use AVG free for Linux. It has never found a virus (that doesn't surprise me, given there aren't any in the wild--it's strictly a precaution on my part) and I can say that it uses minimal resources (normally, it doesn't even show up on top) and has never interfered with my computing in any way.

I would suggest to OP that, whatever distro he decides to install for real the first time, he stick with it for at least three months to get a feel for how Linux works before "distro-hopping" to try another.
 
  


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