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Old 06-10-2005, 07:38 AM   #16
mafiltenborg
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Doesn't Knoppix do that by default? Install a bootloader, that is?
 
Old 06-11-2005, 11:09 AM   #17
tb28025
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thanks.

I disabled everything and nothing. I now also believe it is my video card. Actually I have on board video so I think ill go to a computer parts store and buy an old PCI VGA adapter.

So far I tried taking everything out that wasnt needed. I left a Brand bew (just out of the box infact) HD, A CD drive, the CPU, VGA, and ram. First it booted up to the normal Knopix screen then when it started to boot-up it died.

Also I was looking through my note, because i have been trying to install linux for 3 weeks now and saw an earlier eror message. "You passed an undefined mode number, return to 80x25. After researching this it also had something to do with the display. after trying all of the "linux vga=whatever" modes nothing still happened. so Im going to buy one of those old PCI video cards, and if it helps ill probably go get an all-in-wonder card.
 
Old 06-11-2005, 11:13 AM   #18
tb28025
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Quote:
Originally posted by mafiltenborg
Doesn't Knoppix do that by default? Install a bootloader, that is?
No, knoppix lets you make boot floppies. yes bootable floppies and two of them at that. If you dont use the floppies you can use the CD to boot it with "knoppix fromhd=/dev/hda1" THere is a way around that explained on the Knoppix site but im nolt that much worried about it right now. I really need to install linux first, I just realized that linux has hardly any spyware and viruses. my brother has been running linux (which i installed 3 versions on his PC) for three weeks and been spyware free.

Last edited by tb28025; 06-11-2005 at 11:15 AM.
 
Old 06-11-2005, 12:13 PM   #19
shane25119
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I've seen this before. It is a hardware problem, in my expierence it was a heatsink not properly on so the processor was overheating when something as intensive as a big compile or an OS install was going on. Check your heat sink.
 
Old 06-11-2005, 01:12 PM   #20
tb28025
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check it as in clean it and place it back. I keep my entire CPU free of dust and other things but your saying i should maybe clean it and put some more of the Pprocessor grease on it? Grease as in that white adhensive that is on the back of my hot sink. or maybe you are even suggestiing buying a new hot sink.
 
Old 06-11-2005, 02:38 PM   #21
tb28025
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-update-

I checked it and there was a tiny bit of dust under the fan so I blew it off. Still no starting up. My brother also reminded me that i had ran a linux installer about a month ago but aborted it because i was really not ready for an OS change. I was running a web-server through Windows and didnt want to make a partition or erase the HD and lose any Online material (i.e.- HTML's PHP's and other online documents that I made.) Im going to try and think back to any changes that i made after this installation. The only one that comes to mind currently is the 512 stick of ram that I added.

Windows will install but linux will not.

Last edited by tb28025; 06-11-2005 at 05:17 PM.
 
Old 06-12-2005, 07:52 AM   #22
scowles
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Quote:
Originally posted by tb28025
Ok

Compaq Stock CPU
-upgraded with-
Celeron 2.53GHz processor
760 MB of RAM PC2700 DDR SDRAM DIMMs
Sony CD-RW drive
Hypermedia DVD+RW drive
Maxtor 40GB HD [Master]
Maxtor 120 GB HD
Western Digital 80 GB HD
What chipset?

The reason I ask - I have been unable to load FC3 on a MSI motherboard based on the 915P chipset. The kernel will boot from the CD, but then initrd errors with a kernel panic. I tried tinkering with every BIOS setting with no success. Since this 915P nightmare, I have successfully loaded 4 other FC3 systems with the same FC3 CD's on non 915P based motherboards. Based on the cryptic kernel panic error, it looks like it does not understand the pci-x devices.
 
Old 06-12-2005, 09:18 AM   #23
tb28025
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you got me there. How would I go about finding the chipset?
 
Old 06-12-2005, 10:14 AM   #24
scowles
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When it comes to Compaq, I don't really know how you would go about determining the MB chipset. Knowing compaq, its probably a proprietary chipset.

Sorry
 
Old 06-12-2005, 05:54 PM   #25
tb28025
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Ok, so this means that I will need to find a distro that works with that type of chipset or maybe even buying a new chipset. Or does this mean that its still a hardware issue?
 
Old 06-13-2005, 04:00 AM   #26
mafiltenborg
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All this talk about chipsets makes me thinke the following thoughts:

tb28025:

You can't buy a 'new chipset' - it's soldered permanently onto the motherboard.

Compaq stock CPU? Compaq doesn't make CPU's. Intel, AMD and a few others do. If you have upgraded the stock cpu with a Celeron, my guess would be that the ctock cpu is an intel. Now for the upgrade-bit: if you've upgraded the cpu, are you 100% sure the motherboard supports that new - and most likely considerably faster - cpu in the first place???

Next thought along the 'Compaq-PC'-line: Compaq PC's - as well as IBM's, Dell's and all the other brand-name-PC's out there have given med bad upgrade-experiences all the way.
My number one reason for NOT buying brand-name-pre-assembled PC's is the fact that they're not very upgradable. Manufacturer doesn't want you to be able to lifespan-extend the machines - he'd rather you bought new ones. More earnings and less hassle (warranty etc.).

To put things in perspective, a new motherboard can be bought in my local computerstore for approximately the same amount of money ten BigMacs cost. 40 Euro - or 300 danish 'kroner'. Approximating pocket change...

You get: a new chipset, an onboard VGA, a LANport, soundcard and a few other basic features. Follow this link for proof: http://www.shg.dk/link.asp?goto=infobox&varenr=310664 - An ASRock motherboard carrying 'Varenr 310664' will set you back 289 kroner.

Your Compaq cabinet most likely will not accept this motherboard. Tough luck.
Brand name PC's have a bad reputation for being picky with RAM as well.

So i'd suggest you try this:
Replace your upgrade cpu with the stock cpu. Remove any additional RAM you added. Use only what was in the machine when you got it. As for the chipset, i'd have no worries. The upside of having a brand name PC is that it's usually VERY stable if you don't try tweaking it. (The inner logic in this postulate is that brand name manufacturers sell gear to end users who will return any and all malfunctioning machines for RMA. They wil actually USE their guarantee, and manufacturers don't like throwing money back at consumers. Besides that, they have a reputation to uphold.)

This will cost you nothing at all.

I believe you have a hardware issue. To resolve it, i suggest you revert back to 'known good' - being stock cpu and RAM according to manufacturers specs. As far back as you can go. And remove any expansion cards, too. I once had a brand name TV-card that made my machine go bonkers. Wacko! Random reboots and freezes. Worked fine in another machine. Sold it, bought the cheapest noname-card i could possibly find - works like a charm.

If reverting back to basics gets you in the air, try adding stuff back to the system. Locate the offending component. Either live without it or replace it with something that works.

This, assuming you want to avoid spending money on the project.

Now, knowing you have seen and made working systems (using other people's hardware), we can agree on the fact that it's just *your* hardware that isn't behaving. Right.

So you'll either have to fix it or get new, depending on what is most important to you.
If knowing WHY it doesn't work is most important - fix it.
If getting on with the project is most important - my advice would be to buy the cheapest cabinet and a similar (cheapest!) motherboard to go with it, then transfer your Celeron, the RAM, disks, optical drives and floppy drives to this new 'home'. OK, this ElCheapo cabinet will be noisy, and you'll most likely have a hard time finding a motherboard that accepts your Celeron AND accepts your ram AND has a reasonable onboard vga/lan AND is really cheap.

But you will be free. Free to choose a motherboard. Free to choose a VGA card. Free to tinker with all the stuff on the market. Going all component-crazy is no bad thing. Motherboards must be compatible - otherwise people won't buy them. RAM must be compatible - same reason. Graphics cards must not only be compatible, they must have proper driver support and be cheap, because there's a war going on in this market segment.

Assuming all your stuff can be moved, this operation may cost less than 70 Euro. Less than you pay for 17 BigMacs.

Success isn't guaranteed. But close...

//Martin

Note on heatsink 'grease': This compound is NOT lubricant. It's intended to improve thermal contact between CPU and heatsink, and adding MORE is a bad idea. Less is better - unless you use too little. Then THAT will be bad. Choosing the right amount of thermal compound is something of an art. But most people use waaaay too much 'just to be sure'.
Don't.
First, ONLY the contact surface between CPU and heatsink must contain compound. Athlon/Duron CPU's have capacitors onboard. these must be clean and dry. Same thing goes for the green PCB sarrying the CPU core. Clean. Dunno about Celerons. But keep it clean.
Second, having smeared some compound onto your CPU core, you should be able to read the lettering on the surface through the compound layer. If you can't, IMHO you have applied way too much.

And another thing; many heatsinks come preconfigured with a 'heatsink compound tape'.
IMHO this tape is usable one time only. If you remove the heatsink, remove the tape and replace it with compound. It will require some work on your part.
 
Old 06-13-2005, 03:12 PM   #27
tb28025
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Thanks for all your help. I didnt know all the correct terms but it seems as though we are on the same page. So to answer your post ill have to revise my earlier statements.

my computer is

Compaq stock PC
Celeron 2.3GHz processor [stock]
760 MB of RAM PC2700 DDR SDRAM DIMMs [256 stick stock]
Sony CD-RW drive [stock]
Hypermedia DVD+RW drive
Maxtor 40GB HD [Master] [stock]
Maxtor 120 GB HD
Western Digital 80 GB HD

And I have put it back to the stock configuration. although it boots slower. I have come to the conclusion that I have to buy a new motherboard [in which I will also buy a new chipset] and transfer all of my components over to it. And like you said it could possibly make a better computer. I also agree with you when it comes to buying a brand name computer. I built my brothers and know exactly what is in it. But when my parents offer to buy me a 1000$ computer I kept my mouth closed. Given that this computer is about two years old I know that a built one would have possibly been more efficient.

Thanks for your advice I will take that as my next step.


I did find out my chipset using EVEREST home edition.

Field Value
North Bridge Properties
North Bridge Intel Brookdale-G i845GEV
Revision 03
Package Type 760 Pin FC-BGA
Package Size 3.75 cm x 3.75 cm
Core Voltage 1.5 V
In-Order Queue Depth 12

Memory Timings
CAS Latency (CL) 2.5T
RAS To CAS Delay (tRCD) 3T
RAS Precharge (tRP) 3T
RAS Active Time (tRAS) 6T

Error Correction
ECC Not Supported
ChipKill ECC Not Supported
ECC Scrubbing Not Supported

Memory Slots
DRAM Slot #1 256 MB (DDR SDRAM)
DRAM Slot #2 512 MB (DDR SDRAM)

Integrated Graphics Controller
Graphics Controller Type Intel Extreme Graphics
Graphics Controller Status Enabled
Shared Memory Size 8 MB

Chipset Manufacturer
Company Name Intel Corporation
Product Information http://www.intel.com/products/browse/chipsets.htm
Driver Download http://support.intel.com/support/chipsets/index.htm

Last edited by tb28025; 06-13-2005 at 03:44 PM.
 
Old 06-15-2005, 10:37 PM   #28
tb28025
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my system is propietary.
 
Old 06-16-2005, 03:27 AM   #29
mafiltenborg
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Cheer up

All systems are proprietary. Yours look all right.

You've got a Brookdale (Intel) northbridge and some sort of Intel graphics chip - most likely that one comes with the Brookdale north bridge, and my guess is that it's an 845Extreme.
The southbridge (AFAIK the subsystem responsible for connecting to the off-chip (that is, not-Cache RAM; Main memory) RAM) handles DDR2700, and you've got plenty of that too.

Intel chipsets are in widespread use. Some of them have known issues, but again AFAIK there are workarounds to these issues.

Specs call for a nice (perhaps not bleeding-edge powerhouse, but still nice) and stability-focused setup aimed at mainstream office or serious SOHO use.

I'm puzzled. Did you apply any and all BIOS updates? Is the machine stable when using only the RAM it was sold with (probably the 256-stick)?

Is the power supply big enough? I see you have a total of FIVE IDE-disks, and not only am i puzzled as to how you manage to connect 'em all at the same time (having only four IDE channels available, right?) - all those disks could put a heavy load on your PSU. Heavily loaded PSUs can cause the weirdest of problems. Really.

Perhaps you could try to lighten the burden your PSU must carry? Try for one optical drive and one harddisk. Oh, you've tried that already... Well, it was just an idea.

The one thing that bothers me most about brand-name-computers is that they are usually constructed so that you can't /replace/ the motherboard or the PSU - or the internal ventilation system for that matter. They're 'buy, use, discard'-machines.

Luckily, cabinets are actually quite cheap these days. 250 kroner - 2.5 cases of Carlsberg beer or 8 BigMacs. Manageable. And this includes a 300W PSU.
Add to that a new ElCheapo motherboard with onboard graphics, lan, sound etc. and you are up 'n running for 500 kroner total.
Considering the complexity of the components and the workmanship required to put the stuff in your hands, it's a bargain!

Do not, however, expect this kind of system to emanate the same sensation of 'quality' as your brand-name-PC. But look at the bright side - you can upgrade components individually. A bigger/better/quieter PSU fits right in. ANY atx-formfactor motherboard will work. You can go nuts with graphics adapters - just remember to buy PCIe-cards. First-hand experience is "works better!" My Debian Etch runs with a GF6600 PCIe-card, and it works like a charm. Have tried ATI a couple of times, but I always end up with NVidia. And if you use your PC for any kind of gaming, these are the only two serious contenders for PixelPowerPlay Visit a gamers-review-site, and you'll soon agree.

But for starters, any odd onboard vga-chip will get you running in 2D. My advice would be to buy a motherboard with PCIexpress slots and use the onboard graphics - just to get off the ground, rather than buying an AGP-motherboard to reuse an existing AGP-videocard. Later on, you'll be glad you did so, because AGP is last years technology. Tomorrow belongs to PCI express, and tomorrow you'll buy that nice PCIe-PixelBaster. Think ahead.

I know. The computer industry is an ever-changing scenario. Latest news from the standardization-front is a motherboard+cabinet_design combo addressing both noise and heat issues. All very nice, but it's an upcoming standard, and my local computer component pusher doesn't have any of those parts yet. So I wouldn't think THAT far ahead...
 
Old 06-16-2005, 04:17 AM   #30
vinbob
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I still think it's your RAM...

There's no point confusing the matter by discussing BIOS updates and chipsets, if the PC is doing random hard reboots it's gonna be a hardware fault.

Try removing one of your sticks of RAM, if the problems still occur with a Knoppix live CD then swap it with the other stick and try booting again.

Last edited by vinbob; 06-16-2005 at 04:19 AM.
 
  


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