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Old 12-21-2010, 10:27 PM   #46
1nf3s73d
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um you can always wait for the "idiot-proof" chrome OS (based on linux), but made for those who really don't want to be hassled with anything (when it comes to the OS), heck even the updates happen in the back ground. if your system gets compromised google will do the reloading of everything for you, heck not even M$ can make that claim. so from what I've been reading the chrome OS is just the right fit for you and everyone you know
google it,
they are handing out trial ware lap tops... at least the last time I checked them out
 
Old 12-22-2010, 12:44 PM   #47
frieza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodguy View Post
In all fairness however, I have owned a dozen microwave ovens, cooked thousands of items in them, and never once did I consider the need to over-ride the safety switch.
neither have I, disabling security on a computer isn't a risk of potentially exposing oneself to fatal doses of radiation either but tampering with a microwave oven is, it was just an analogy, point being that if the tool doesn't fit the job it's better to go with a more proper tool then modifying the tool to suit the needs of the job, you risk compromising the integrity of the tool in the process
 
Old 12-22-2010, 03:16 PM   #48
honeybadger
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Sorry to say this but then there are some things that you said are plain wrong. We are NOT technocrats. Even I want to use the computer and not know why a process is creating a bottleneck. And I enjoy my slackware and debian installations to the fullest.
It makes no sence to me to carry on with something that you are not happy with. In this case I would suggest win xp if you can find it or get win 7.
Hope this helps.
 
Old 12-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #49
Redwoodguy
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I really like the Chrome OS idea. I visited the site briefly and it looks promising. However, the site was not very "informative." You know, I should state more clearly that I have all the "abilities" I need to operate all kinds of computers. I am not making a case of "dis-ability." I am simply making a case for a preference for a certain kind of machine, which is my netbook. I have erased both Win XP and Win 7 from two different computers I have, and replaced it with Ubuntu in both cases. Forgetting security issues, I felt WinXXX was simply so slow and ponderous it was not useable.

As to the microwaves - once more. I now think the analogy works in MY favor!:-) 1. It is an appliance. 2. It has a computer inside. 3. It never needs an update just because I decide to cook a "duck" instead of a "chicken." 4. It needs no password. 5. It doesn't break itself by trying to upgrade its firmware. I'd call that a nice use of a computer to create an useful appliance.

Are you all ready to boot me off this board yet? :-)Please don't take this stuff too seriously.
 
Old 12-23-2010, 04:00 AM   #50
djsmiley2k
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Redwoodguy BUT ALL IT DOES IT COOK!. AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

Earlier on you proved my point.

You want a browser....

which displays webpages
plays mp3s
plays movies
sends email
I'm guessing you also want some storage
... and as you use it you'll want more such as...

flash
shockwave
silverlight
adobe air
pdf reader
compression/decompression tools
some sort of chat program
bookmarks
security updates
drivers for a webcam maybe
a small dog which jumps around your screen


Ok the last one was a joke but suddenly you dont want a browser anymore. There IS appliances which do each of these jobs VERY well, but they do ONLY that job. This is the issue you've encountered. PC's try to do multiple tasks for multiple people in multiple roles. This is why its not as simple as you wish.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 03:45 AM   #51
rich_c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsmiley2k View Post
do multiple tasks for multiple people in multiple roles. This is why its not as simple as you wish.
Including providing a method of controlling microwave ovens in the form of an embedded device, amongst many other things!

As you pointed out. A tool that versatile will pretty much have to require a degree of skill to operate.

Another analogy is the good old car one. By wanting to disable security features, you are effectively saying you don't want to wear a seatbelt because it's inconvenient and chafes a bit... @ Redwoodguy, before you object to that comparison, my understanding is that analogies may well be exaggerated to illustrate the point. I'm well aware that disabling passwords etc. won't result in you hitting your head on the monitor!
 
Old 12-24-2010, 08:10 AM   #52
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodguy View Post
As to the microwaves - once more. I now think the analogy works in MY favor!:-) 1. It is an appliance. 2. It has a computer inside. 3. It never needs an update just because I decide to cook a "duck" instead of a "chicken." 4. It needs no password. 5. It doesn't break itself by trying to upgrade its firmware. I'd call that a nice use of a computer to create an useful appliance.
First of all, I want to say that I think that this whole idea of a computer being an appliance is impossible. Why? A PC's inner workings are probably thousands or even millions of times more complex than a kitchen appliance!

Also, a kitchen appliance is not connected to the internet, so security is not a concern. But a PC is.

Also, each model of microwave has its own custom firmware made just for that particular circuit board, so no configuration needed. PCs, on the other hand, use the same universal OS (such as Linux or Windows), so that OS has to be capable of having modular drivers for all the different types of hardware inside, and it needs to be configured when the built-in drivers don't work with the hardware.

Also, the reason updates exist is because you probably want the newest, fastest, easiest to use software that supports the newest file formats. A PC's universal interface allows this. But a microwave just has a few hardwired, pre-labeled buttons (thus the UI can't be improved by software), and for the kind of processing it does speed doesn't really matter. And a microwave doesn't deal with files, so no updates are needed for the newest formats.

So a PC isn't an appliance! (If we have near-100% hardware support, be incredibly careful about every package update, and make incredibly complex tools that can automagically configure everything, then it might come close to an appliance. But still, if something even slightly goes wrong, you'll have to become an "expert" and we'll still probably find it easier just to tell you to type a terminal command rather than walking you through what to click )

Last edited by MTK358; 12-24-2010 at 08:23 AM.
 
Old 12-24-2010, 08:37 AM   #53
djsmiley2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358 View Post
So a PC isn't an appliance! (If we have near-100% hardware support, be incredibly careful about every package update, and make incredibly complex tools that can automagically configure everything, then it might come close to an appliance. But still, if something even slightly goes wrong, you'll have to become an "expert" and we'll still probably find it easier just to tell you to type a terminal command rather than walking you through what to click )
Or take away the option of choosing, but how I pointed out in my previous post, he still wants the option of choosing, choosing to have email, choosing to have mp3 support, choosing to not upgrade.

The point is, he never HAD to upgrade, he chose to. :|
 
Old 12-24-2010, 08:52 AM   #54
MTK358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsmiley2k View Post
Or take away the option of choosing, but how I pointed out in my previous post, he still wants the option of choosing, choosing to have email, choosing to have mp3 support, choosing to not upgrade.

The point is, he never HAD to upgrade, he chose to. :|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTK358
Also, the reason updates exist is because you probably want the newest, fastest, easiest to use software that supports the newest file formats. A PC's universal interface allows this. But a microwave just has a few hardwired, pre-labeled buttons (thus the UI can't be improved by software), and for the kind of processing it does speed doesn't really matter. And a microwave doesn't deal with files, so no updates are needed for the newest formats.
...

Last edited by MTK358; 12-24-2010 at 08:53 AM.
 
Old 12-25-2010, 02:46 AM   #55
jthill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodguy View Post
I felt WinXXX was simply so slow and ponderous it was not useable.
Linux asks for your password a few times a day to keep from getting that way. Your choice is less than a minute a day for extra safety checks on Linux, or back to "so slow it was not useable" Windows.

BTW, there was something wrong with your system. XP when maintained properly is fast and stable. But then, keeping it that way takes a lot more time than just typing your password every so often.
 
Old 12-25-2010, 11:54 AM   #56
snowpine
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A better analogy than "appliance" is "car." Most automobiles segregate the controls that are necessary to operate the vehicle (in easy reach of the driver's seat) from the controls necessary to maintain and repair the vehicle (under the hood). Some drivers choose to change their own oil, and others choose to take it to the shop.

ps It is absolutely possible to set up Windows XP with a separate administrator account; in fact doing so is a great way to keep your system running safe and secure.
 
Old 12-25-2010, 12:28 PM   #57
dotancohen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodguy View Post
I like it except for the constant, perpetual, ever-present, super-annoying need to be entering passwords and "becoming root user" and so on.
This is easy to take care of. I suggest that you configure the system to log you in without a password. You can also configure Gnome-Keyring to not ask for your password. When else do you need to enter your password? Let me know when these constant, perpetual, ever-present password prompts pop up and I'll help you configure them to not bother you.
 
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