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Old 02-04-2007, 05:30 PM   #16
Junior Hacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saikee

I am probably the worst one to pick and persuade that there is a boot loader better than Grub's ability to boot 140+ systems, requiring no more than 3 lines of commands universally applicable to every Dos, Windows, Linix, BSD and Solaris and can be implemented even before any of the operating system is installed. I am actually very interested to know any boot loader that can outperform than Grub.
Also
In a prior thread, this member said that a Linux system installed in another area fo the HDD other than the partition it came from will not boot.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #17
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior Hacker
Also
In a prior thread, this member said that a Linux system installed in another area fo the HDD other than the partition it came from will not boot.
What is your point? Taken by itself, this sentence means nothing.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 05:47 PM   #18
teckk
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http://gag.sourceforge.net/
Here is another solution. I didn't see anyone mention it yet.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 06:02 PM   #19
saikee
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Junior Hacker,

Be very clear what I did in all of my work are 100% Linux and Windows compliance. I never use third party non-PC standard stuff.

The 63 partitions is Linux own standard. Not mine. If you use Gparted you will also see the same 63 partitions limit stated there. If you do a search in the Internet you will see the limit has been explained in many places.

If you think I am misleading the public because you do not know the Linux own standard then that is truly regretable.

Like I stated earlier I don't have any issue with the 3rd party software, paid or unpaid. I want to make sure I know what Linux cannot provide before going out for the 3rd party software route. So far I have not been convinced.

Much of what you wrote is handled better already by VMware as only one host system needed to be booted while all other systems can reside inside as guest. When you are actually using it you will realise its many limitation.

Seem to me all 3rd party software has it place and usage. I am here to learn Linux and wish to know how the system works. By introducing another layer of management system the Linux will be restricted. For example I think it is very important for a user to know how to mount a partition. You can't mount a Linux in VMware because it is a file inside the host Windows. That Linux has no real device name to identify. As there is no need to boot a Linux guests because we only boot their common host Windows we learn nothing from Linux loaders Grub or Lilo. Would this the way to learn Linux?

If we introduce a management layer to trick Linux in believing there are 255 primary partitions you think Fedora would allow this happen automatically and detectable by udev? I think you may end up with a severe head ache if you start to mount various partitions.

By your own admission Linux installed in a lower end may have a limitation of requiring to be addressed within the first 1024 cylinders and migrating to further away can cause kernel to fail. Using the management layer to overcome the problem is exactly what is done in VMware too because the Linux is just one large file and not in a real device as exists in Linux. If users do not know the basic before switching to a 3rd party management layer then this is counterproductive to the basic understanding of Linux.
---------------------------------

teckk,

I have not tried Gag but am aware of its existence. Like Junior Hacker here you are trying to show us Gag which has a declared limit of booting 9 operating systems. Are we supposed to be grateful of this information since a standard Lilo boots only a maximum of 27 images and my Grub is booting a mere 145 systems?

I don't have an issue with the 3rd party stuff but it is a bit disappointing if Linux users turn to them without knowing what Linux own boot loaders can do first.

Is it really that hard to learn the same 3 lines of commands in Grub or Lilo that can boot universally every PC system? I would have thought user would like to know such simple thing and then put away for good the booting problems.

I think the problem is more to do with the users prefer GUI and not wanting to do anything with CLI (Command line inferafce).

Last edited by saikee; 02-04-2007 at 06:14 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 06:25 PM   #20
saikee
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Quote:
In a prior thread, this member said that a Linux system installed in another area fo the HDD other than the partition it came from will not boot.
Let's be very careful about what we know and what we do not know.

An installed Linux always has a record of its kernel location and the name of the root partition. If the same Linux is migrate to another partition it should not boot because the kernel and root partition address are wrong. If these information is corrected the Linux will boot again.

I routinely shift my Linux around 5 hard disks between 200+ partitions and can say most modern distros will allow us to migrate. Old distros with old kernel may have a problem with not able to cross the 137Gb barrier in a hard disk. Since I do use the last permitted logical partition in hda63, hdc63 and hdd63 I can certify the modern distros can indeed be migrated but to boot them a user need to amend the partition references too.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #21
Junior Hacker
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Alright

Allow me to show you the real advantages of the software I use.

First:

It makes me money $$$$. I repair virus infected or turtle Windows computers with to much poorly configured software. I use Lavalys Everest Ultimate Edition (which I downloaded for free), to gather info on the computer and some bench mark tests on performance. I have found on the older computers I work on, that having the OS on a smaller partition at the begging of the drive improves performance. I back up all data and wipe the drive, then make two partitions, one for OS with 75% free space, and the rest is the larger data drive (using one set of tools). Then after re-installing the OS, I pump in as many updates as I have in my collection via my USB Maxtor drive, then put it on-line and get the rest, I tweak the start up folder and make an image, put the image in the data partition and on DVD along with others (my back up copy). When the customer brings it back because they screwed it up again, depending on the hardware, I re-load the image and give it back in less than an hour in most cases and it is fully updated and configure without third party software, and charge again $$$$.

Second:

I do a lot of movie editing, my XP partitions are 15GB in size, my data partition is Fat32 with max. 4GB file size, not enough for editing, I use a trial version (30 day) editing suite with powerful features, but it is expensive to buy. I'll make a quick 15GB partition, load an image, and re-size it to 40GB in about 6 minutes as I avoid the wipe step, then from the data drive I install this trial editor along with many other software needed, and work on movies without having to install too much software in my primary copy of XP, to just form a 40GB NTFS partition and have the software use it as a temp. directory, takes too much time for Windows to format it. Also when the 30 days are up, I just wipe that partition and leave it till I need to do some more editing. Then just take another 6 minutes to load a fresh, fast copy of XP and do it all over again. So I use a powerful $400.00 US editing suite FOR FREE!. Thanks to my boot manager that has been paid for many times over.

The reason I recommend these tools are not solely for multi-booting, trust me, the real benefits lie beyond it's basic features. I also have had many OS's on a computer and found it was just a learning experience, it is not practical to have 200+ systems. Maybe for Windows, as it is better to spread your software between many of them for the sake of performance, but not practical to have many Linux that all use the same kernel, same basic tools included etc. The novelty wears off, I found I was not using most of my systems, so now on my every day computer I am down to:

Casual use XP Media Center
Playground XP Pro
Mandrake 10.2 32 bit
Fedora Core 6 64 bit, with yum not working, sent in bug report, cannot update.
Fedora Core 6 64 bit from same image, modem dies, just put it together 2 nights ago.
Fedora Core 6 64 bit I put together last night, waiting to see if modem holds out before deleting copy 2

The first copy of Fedora I will leave incase needed because of the bug report.

I could go on and on showing you the every day advantages I have with bootitng, as the web site states after listing it's features "And lots more". The benefits just keep showing up every day, and it put's money in my pocket.

Does grub do that for you?
 
Old 02-04-2007, 07:48 PM   #22
saikee
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Junior Hacker,

Grub is just a boot loader it can't clone or resize a partition.

Having read your post my feeling is you have found software that fit your usage and doesn't want to get your hand dirty to write own scripts. May be you are not sure but I suppose you know many of the tasks can be achieved in Linux with dd and gparted. You just find it expedient to buy ready-made programs to click what you want. You don't have a real need for Linux at all except it costs you nothing and there is no harm in having it. I see it as your personal choice.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 08:01 PM   #23
Junior Hacker
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You fail to open your eyes.

I make money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ working on Windows computers with my $35.00 investment, grub & dd are useless in a Windows environment. And my $35.00 investment does what so many Linux tools can do just as proficient.

You just have to have the last word right?
That is what I see
You can't be wrong, you're perfect.

Last edited by Junior Hacker; 02-05-2007 at 02:41 AM.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 08:31 PM   #24
saikee
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Quite incorrect. I am human and can make mistakes.

I don't think I have said anything you've done is wrong in the previous post. You have your own way of doing it and Linux like you just said isn't much use to you, especially you are working mainly in Windows environment. That is your choice which nobody should interfere including me.

If you want I can thank you for telling us the background with which your arrive at the arrangement and the helpful information you have provided.

Good luck to your money making business too.
 
Old 02-04-2007, 08:42 PM   #25
gilead
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So you can use some software to overcharge your customers? OK if you have a fixed price arrangement with them and you're saving time, but not so good if you are time based and not telling them about the time (and price) savings.

And you can avoid the legitimate costs of other software? Yes, I know lots of people do things like that - it doesn't make it right.

None of this is helping the OP with booting Linux from the Windows NT loader - hopefully they're reading through the links in the posts and not just sitting there shaking their head...
 
Old 02-04-2007, 09:25 PM   #26
Junior Hacker
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I am a business person,

One thing I've learned in the business world:

If you want to be a big boy,
You're going to have to play with the big boys,
You're going to have to pay the big boys before the real returns show,

No pay, no play.
 
Old 02-05-2007, 12:10 AM   #27
pixellany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior Hacker
You fail to open your eyes.

You just have to have the last word right?
That is what I see
YOU CAN'T BE WRONG, YOU'RE PERFECT
The reason for this kind of ranting escapes me. We are all thrilled that you have SW tools that you like. And I am sure that many here appreciate being informed about your current personal favorite.

That said, I think your soapbox needs a rest....
 
Old 02-05-2007, 01:05 AM   #28
Hitboxx
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The OP has got his/her answer and this is turning into a pointless debate. If any of you want to discuss this debate, please start a new thread, we may contribute, but not here, i believe it will become more confusing to the OP and newbies. Just my
 
Old 02-05-2007, 11:48 AM   #29
pxumsgdxpcvjm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guguma
What I want to do is to boot Kubuntu from the NTloader.
This program used to do that.

Code:
BootPart 2.60: Boot Partitions for WinNT
BootPart is an easy tool for adding additional partitions to the Windows NT multi boot menu (for example, add the OS/2 boot manager or a Linux partition).  

Bootpart 2.60 is compatible with Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows XP.
I used to use it some time ago, but I had problems getting it to boot partitions on SATA drives when I got them and went to grub instead. Maybe they fixed that now.

Good luck!
 
Old 02-06-2007, 05:16 PM   #30
guguma
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Wooooooooooow. Guys what is going on in here.

I have solved my problem thank you and i am ashamed of myself that I cannot state my problems clearly.

So I managed to boot Kubuntu from the NTloader. The copying of the boot sector problem is solved by sudo command. And (what a newbie am i) the problem that I could not copy the file I created to a stupid floppy disk was because I did not mount it pffffff.

Although in the mounting and the copy process many weird things did occur.

1. Kubuntu saying to me that the floppy was already mounted but I could not find it in the media.

2. After a second try it was mounted and I could see it.

3. I used copy to command in the KDE shell extension and it did not work.

4. After a bunch of tries it worked.

5. I do not know if I suffered these trivial maybe tiny problems i stated just right now but if not then what? I guess it would be better to carry these questions to ubuntu forums rather than discussing it here.

But anyways THANKS A LOT

(By the way I could not find an option to make a topic header say (RESOLVED) if there is a way tell me because this is solved and if the 255 primary partitions (weird) problem is not to be discussed anymore there is nothing necessary to discuss more on this topic.)
 
  


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