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Old 09-02-2016, 11:56 PM   #46
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrevell View Post
NEWBIES GOING THROUGH WHAT I AM GOING THROUGH (50+ hours trying to get Linux onboard an older machine), READ THIS!
(re: "What I am looking for is an exe like "wubi.exe", circa 2001")
============================================================


*********************** Why, after writing off LQ as a mecca for self-aggrandizing juveniles and rude bitter
sexegenarians, am I suddenly being graced with the attentions of veritable Linux GODS????
Who IS this guy??????
YANCEK, that is possibly the most beautifully-written piece of human communication I have seen in
decades ! Nailed it, point by point, made it sound like you have a degree in Tech Nightmares.
Thank you very very much!
The bad news, kiddies, is that the gist of it all is this:
If it is even possible to find a one-click downloader/installer for Linux that actually works on the first try,
the search is more exhausting and frustrating than just going with the current circuitous convoluted approach.
Abandon sanity; download an ISO, download the ISO-transmogrifiers, download the transmogrified-ISO-installers, just
download and do everything they tell you to until you find a compilation of programs and processes that work on
your machine. Have faith, work long and hard (or have a few extraordinary strokes of luck), and Linux will come to
you.
This is the way of the modern world. Deal with it.
Our Guru yancek is exceptionally good at what he does here at LQ.

He has been my teacher in many things-
 
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:50 AM   #47
yancek
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Quote:
Will it help to pare down and/or eliminate some Winblows components on my old partition?
Can't image that would help. I expect your problem is the limited RAM which you indicated earlier was 512MB. That is the minimum required for a recent Ubuntu install. Ubuntu is installed as a "program" inside windows and if you boot windows and open My Computer and C:\ you should see a folder named Ubuntu. That would be your wubi install so your Ubuntu wubi is on the same partition as your xp. It wouldn't make such sense to try to run wine inside Ubuntu which is in your windows isntall. I expect it would be extremely slow.

Last edited by yancek; 09-03-2016 at 08:10 AM.
 
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:52 AM   #48
NessieH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
The link below has what is claimed to be a solution to the problem. You would have to be pretty serious about using wubi to go through that entire process. It is specifically for Ubuntu but supposedly would work with other Ubuntu's.

http://askubuntu.com/questions/69803...is-not-defined
Good news. As I read in the 2nd answer, hakuna_matata has fixed the issue. In fact, I have never gotten the error message with his versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danrevell View Post
Will it help to pare down and/or eliminate some Winblows components on my old partition?
My experience on that topic:

It makes no sense to eleminate some Windows components except you need the free space for Ubuntu. If you run Ubuntu, Windows doesn't run at same time. So it doesn't matter how many components run within Windows.

Theoretically, it should speed up your Ubuntu if you defrag your Windows drive which contains the Ubuntu folder. But if your Ubuntu is freshly installed, the fragmentation shouldn't be a huge problem.

In the past, I installed on a slow computer Lubuntu. 14.04 or 16.04 could be an option. I tested it for Lubuntu 14.04.5 and 16.04.1 with the github Wubi versions without any problems. The new Lubuntu versions also seem faster than the older one. But it depends on your hardware and the needed software. Lubuntu site means
Quote:
For advanced internet services like Google+, YouTube, Google Docs and Facebook, your computer needs about 1 GB of RAM.

For local programs like LibreOffice and simple browsing habits, your computer needs about 512 MB of RAM.

Last edited by NessieH; 09-03-2016 at 11:19 AM.
 
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:16 AM   #49
danrevell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
Our Guru yancek is exceptionally good at what he does here at LQ.

He has been my teacher in many things-
Thanks, Zt, for confirming my raving. While Yancek is by no means the only kind, courteous, incredibly-knowledgeable first-responder I encountered here at LQ (I have shrines to 5 others of his stellar calibre in my personal Linux Temple), he is indeed "exceptionally good". Do you happen to know his planetary origin?
 
Old 09-04-2016, 01:48 AM   #50
danrevell
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On "paring down Windows/components" to speed up Ubuntu

Quote:
Originally Posted by yancek View Post
Can't image that would help. I expect your problem is the limited RAM which you indicated earlier was 512MB. That is the minimum required for a recent Ubuntu install. Ubuntu is installed as a "program" inside windows and if you boot windows and open My Computer and C:\ you should see a folder named Ubuntu. That would be your wubi install so your Ubuntu wubi is on the same partition as your xp. It wouldn't make such sense to try to run wine inside Ubuntu which is in your windows isntall. I expect it would be extremely slow.
Okay, this is a bit weird.
I just posted a response to a response on one of my raves about you; someone else here is tossing around unsolicited testimonials to you. You are so awesome.
I also just noticed, not an hour ago, exactly what you refer to in the above quote.... and recall wondering how Winblows knew that Ubuntu and Puppy were onboard, or if those two Linux "programs" had slipped innocuous folders in there for their own mysterious purposes, or.......
But I am having a bit of difficulty with your third, fourth, and fifth statements.
3) Did you enclose "program" in parentheses because that's how Winblows sees that folder and its contents? Surely you didn't mean to blaspheme, implying that Linux is just a program for Winblows.
4) "That would be" my "wubi install" ?? My "Ubuntu wubi is on the same partition as" my "xp" ??? Please tell me that I need to take this literally, remembering that wubi <> Ubuntu... you are only referring to, perhaps, the "wubi" portion of my Ubuntu install, not the system files and heart/soul/mind of Ubuntu itself. I have centered my life around believing that the Ubuntu Spirit, and Linux Spirits in general, reside on separate partitions of my HDD, and that they merely tricked Windows into not noticing that there is another OS onboard. ( I have seen the fit that Winblows pitches when it detects another OS, it is not pretty.)
5) "It wouldn't make such sense to try to run wine inside Ubuntu which is in your windows isntall."
Okay, Yance, you totally lost me here, I think I need alcohol for this.
When I ran WINE, many moons ago, it was FROM inside Ubuntu... I booted Ubuntu, I invoked WINE from Ubuntu, I offered the obligatory virgin from my Ubuntu desktop, I was so spiritually advanced that I didn't even RUN Winblows any more... but I missed certain Winblows games, and was delighted to learn that I could play them in Ubuntu without rebooting to Winblows. Have I been deceived? Is it all just a cruel joke? What is going on? < glug glug glug >
 
Old 09-04-2016, 02:02 AM   #51
danrevell
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Oh, and one more thing....
Is it safe to uninstall Puppy from the Winblows Control Panel? Or does Puppy have an uninstaller in its innards which would serve better?
( Puppy Linux is so cute yet cool, fellow noobs; tiny tiny little Linux OS crammed into less than half-a-Gig, yet serves up wordprocessor, spreadsheets, web browser, and more. Absolutely amazing, loads itself into my paltry gig of RAM for the trial run. That's right -- RAM. Which means it actually FLIES on my dinosaur. Bogs down with too many tabs open on the browser, and won't run a lot of apps from the depositories, but dynamite in a small package!)

Sorry if I misspoke, Yancek; I have an entire whopping GIG of RAM on my dinosaur. What I probably meant to say was that Puppy listed in TaskManager as taking up about a half-gig of memory.
 
Old 09-04-2016, 02:35 AM   #52
danrevell
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re: #48

[QUOTE=NessieH;

[I]It makes no sense to eleminate some Windows components except you need the free space for Ubuntu. If you run Ubuntu, Windows doesn't run at same time. So it doesn't matter how many components run within Windows.

Theoretically, it should speed up your Ubuntu if you defrag your Windows drive which contains the Ubuntu folder. But if your Ubuntu is freshly installed, the fragmentation shouldn't be a huge problem.
[/I] <end QUOTE>

Thanx, Ness, you are a goddess. I'll post this to my noobie blog, LINUX 001.
But, with the audacity of the brash young child that has its own partition somewhere in my psyche, I submit that a clean harddrive is next to godliness, and that removing Winblows components, or the entire virus, would surely make Ubuntu's HDD-searches faster and smoother... but then, I thought the same thing about cleaning my desk out. (Fail.) But your point is well-taken anyway.
What bothers me here is the second part... if defragging Winblows should speed up Ubuntu, wouldn't the Ultimate Defrag Solution (removal and wipe) be even better? But THIS -- " your Windows drive which contains the Ubuntu folder " -- is really starting to bake my noodle. Just finished a stiff one necessitated by my perception of some of Yancek's earlier post on this thread as being near-blasphemy, to wit, that Ubuntu is a program within Winblows.
Rod Serling just told me that all my previous perceptions of Ubuntu could not possibly be so far off-base, but that theme from his show just will NOT stop playing.

Last edited by danrevell; 09-05-2016 at 12:08 AM.
 
Old 09-04-2016, 07:47 AM   #53
yancek
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No. "Linux is not just a program for winblows". I don't know if you are familiar with virtualization software such as Virtualbox or VMWare but a wubi install is somewhat similar. To quote from the wubi guide:

Quote:
Wubi is an officially supported installer for Windows XP, Vista and 7 users that allows Ubuntu to be installed and uninstalled in a safe, easy way as with any other Windows application.
A wubi install is a non-standard installation. Generally, one would install any Linux distribution to a separate partition but a wubi install is like an installation using virtual software which installs on the host partition. So in your case, with xp as the host your wubi Ubuntu is on the xp partition. So with wubi, your Ubuntu is inside the xp system and is on the same partition and this is possible because the developers at Canonical/Ubuntu wrote the software to enable it. A wubi install also modifies your windows bootloader and creates an entry on the windows boot menu for Ubuntu which you can see when you boot. That's how windows knows that Ubuntu is on the computer. As to Puppy, I expect you must have the Grub bootloader installed to boot it. I haven't used Puppy for years but windows generally won't boot anything non-windows system although it is possible but somewhat convoluted to accomplish.

People generally use wine on Linux to run windows programs because they don't have windows so using wine inside Ubuntu which with a wubi install, is inside your windows doesn't make much sense although you could do it. I doubt it would work very well.

Puppy should be on a separate partition so you would not be able to remove it from windows the way you can your wubi-Ubuntu. You can see the partitions when booting Puppy and opening a terminal and running the command:

fdisk -l(Lower Case Letter L in the command)

Wubi was created as a simple way to get Ubuntu and use it to try it and wasn't meant to be used permanently although I'm sure a lot of people do that. It's not the standard way Linux is installed which would be on it's own partition.

In your last post, you refer to removing windows. I expect that the Grub bootloader from Puppy is used to boot and then you can select the windows boot menu and get xp and Ubuntu. If you remove windows, you will also be removing the Ubuntu wubi.

Last edited by yancek; 09-04-2016 at 07:56 AM.
 
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:43 AM   #54
NessieH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrevell View Post
But THIS -- " your Windows drive which contains the Ubuntu folder " -- is really starting to bake my noodle.
The standard installer for Ubuntu uses real partitions by default. Wubi uses virtual partitions by default. Wubi creates a virtual partition as a large file within an existing Windows partition. The Windows partition is a Windows drive e.g. C: on Windows. You can select this drive if you install with Wubi.

The virtual partitions are within folder ubuntu. The full file path is e.g. C:\ubuntu\disks\root.disk . Virtual partitions should avoid risky operations for beginners with real partitions. It is also easy to create a backup with "copy & paste".

If you use Wubi to install Ubuntu, it is not intended that you remove Windows. But it is possible.

You can remove all Windows files except wubildr.mbr, wubildr and all files and folders within folder ubuntu. Additionally, you need a new boot manager as replacement for deleted Windows Boot Manager.

If you installed other linux distros with GRUB 2, you can use the existing GRUB 2 as boot manager. Currently, I use this method with some GRUB 2 scripts like:
Code:
#! /bin/sh -e

echo "Add entry for Wubi"  >&2

cat << EOF
menuentry 'Wubi Ubuntu' {
insmod ntfs
search -s -f -n /ubuntu/disks/root.disk
if loopback loop1 /ubuntu/disks/root.disk; then
   set root='(loop1)'
   configfile (\$root)/boot/grub/grub.cfg
fi
}
EOF
i.e. I created the script with an editor like gedit and saved as /etc/grub.d/29_wubi
Code:
gksudo gedit /etc/grub.d/29_wubi
Then it was necessary to make it executable:
Code:
sudo chmod +x /etc/grub.d/29_wubi
and finally I updated GRUB 2 with
Code:
sudo update-grub
I know that it is also possible to copy wubildr.mbr to real MBR to bypass Windows Boot Manager. But if you are interested in this method, I need more time to create a how-to. Currently, I don't use this method and you need dd command which is powerful but risky. I don't want that you erase your disk because of my mistake.
 
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Old 09-04-2016, 03:31 PM   #55
rokytnji
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Quote:
But, due to time constraints, I must hoist you on your own petard.
Don't get it twisted.
 
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:35 PM   #56
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danrevell View Post
Thanks, Zt, for confirming my raving. While Yancek is by no means the only kind, courteous, incredibly-knowledgeable first-responder I encountered here at LQ (I have shrines to 5 others of his stellar calibre in my personal Linux Temple), he is indeed "exceptionally good". Do you happen to know his planetary origin?
You're Welcome.

Planetary origin? No. Generally if a member wants their location revealed it shows in their profile.

I normally run Puppy via a Live CD or in VBox.
Never installed it to HDD.
 
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:13 PM   #57
danrevell
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Still in awe of the Magnificent Six.... "wubi = virtual"

[QUOTE=yancek;5600522]No. "Linux is not just a program for winblows". I don't know if you are familiar with virtualization software such as Virtualbox or VMWare but a wubi install is somewhat similar.
To quote from the wubi guide:
A wubi install is a non-standard installation. Generally, one would install any Linux distribution to a separate partition but a wubi install is like an installation using virtual software which installs on the host partition.

[END QUOTE]
Thanx, Yance, beautifully executed as usual.
While up till now unaware of this, I can accept it readily, being, yes, familiar with "virtual machines" software, including the two you mention. I'll break this down for my fellow lost travelers on my blog, LINUX 001.
[QUOTE}
So in your case, with xp as the host your wubi Ubuntu is on the xp partition. So with wubi, your Ubuntu is inside the xp system and is on the same partition and this is possible because the developers at Canonical/Ubuntu wrote the software to enable it. A wubi install also modifies your windows bootloader and creates an entry on the windows boot menu for Ubuntu which you can see when you boot. That's how windows knows that Ubuntu is on the computer.
[END QUoTE]
Yes, that logically follows, that's how VM works if I understand it correctly. <<(Slim odds but possible)
Wasn't always that way, was it? Because I first tried Ubuntu YEARS before I even heard of VM.
[QUOTE]
As to Puppy, I expect you must have the Grub bootloader installed to boot it. I haven't used Puppy for years but windows generally won't boot anything non-windows system although it is possible but somewhat convoluted to accomplish.

Ummmm..... it's never safe to assume anything with me; to make matters worse, I often-as-not can't tell you whether the assumption is valid or not. eg, in this case, I do not remember at any time installing or using the Grub bootloader, and I cannot even recall how I managed to get Puppy onboard. It's called "senility". Sorry.
[QUOTE]
People generally use wine on Linux to run windows programs because they don't have windows so using wine inside Ubuntu which with a wubi install, is inside your windows doesn't make much sense although you could do it. I doubt it would work very well.

Well.....ummmmm... I think I seem to recall doing exactly that back in the days of Hardy Heron, or Gallant Gnu, and I don't believe I ever cut the cord and actually eliminated the Winblows virus from my HD (go ahead, call me a wuss). Which would indicate that I did indeed have Ubuntu on a separate partition, and ran WINE from there. But then there's the senility issue.
[QUOTE]
Puppy should be on a separate partition so you would not be able to remove it from windows the way you can your wubi-Ubuntu. You can see the partitions when booting Puppy and opening a terminal and running the command:

fdisk -l(Lower Case Letter L in the command)

[end QUOTE]
And here I am again, skewing the curve... I somehow installed Puppy the same as Ubuntu 12.04.1, i.e. apparently as a VM prog inside of XP. I can see the folders for both while in Winblows, and "Remove Programs" in the Control Panel lists and offers to remove both. I'm sorry, I don't know why I have always been prone to discover new ways to muck up things.
Quote:
In your last post, you refer to removing windows. I expect that the Grub bootloader from Puppy is used to boot and then you can select the windows boot menu and get xp and Ubuntu. If you remove windows, you will also be removing the Ubuntu wubi.
Sigh. Sorry. I buggered this as well. A tri-boot-option menu comes up after BIOS loads, offering Puppy, Ubuntu, or Winblows. I don't know why, it worked that way with Puppy onboard and now it works that way with all three OS options.
[QUOTE]
Wubi was created as a simple way to get Ubuntu and use it to try it and wasn't meant to be used permanently although I'm sure a lot of people do that. It's not the standard way Linux is installed which would be on it's own partition.
{endQUOTE]
And that, folks, is why yancek is one of the Magnificent Six.
Clear, concise, focused, informative, with a wrap-up like a burrito. I think I see my problem, and it are I.
Thanx, yance, impeccable as usual.
 
Old 09-04-2016, 10:35 PM   #58
danrevell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NessieH View Post
The standard installer for Ubuntu uses real partitions by default. Wubi uses virtual partitions by default. Wubi creates a virtual partition as a large file within an existing Windows partition. The Windows partition is a Windows drive e.g. C: on Windows. You can select this drive if you install with Wubi. [endQUOTE]
This, folks, is why Nessie is also one of the Magnificent Six. This is another concise, precise, straightforward
answer to the question I posed, albeit one shaded by its own ramifications. She elucidates and expands with:

The virtual partitions are within folder ubuntu. The full file path is e.g. C:\ubuntu\disks\root.disk . Virtual partitions should avoid risky operations for beginners with real partitions. It is also easy to create a backup with "copy & paste".
If you use Wubi to install Ubuntu, it is not intended that you remove Windows. But it is possible.
You can remove all Windows files except wubildr.mbr, wubildr and all files and folders within folder ubuntu. Additionally, you need a new boot manager as replacement for deleted Windows Boot Manager.


And THAT is enough information to get ME into trouble indefinitely.

[/I]I know that it is also possible to copy wubildr.mbr to real MBR to bypass Windows Boot Manager. But if you are interested in this method, I need more time to create a how-to. Currently, I don't use this method and you need dd command which is powerful but risky. I don't want that you erase your disk because of my mistake.[/I]
I feel my brain starting to spin, and realise that it is just my inability to deal with the juju of these youngsters. Sadly, I remember what it was like to be considered a guru, but that was back when that perception was based on one's ability to use all the DOS commands and write programs in BASIC. Sigh.... the good old days. It appears that the knowledge equivalent to a Bachelor's in Computer Science plus specialisation in a half-dozen areas comprises the basic make-up of a good responder here.
It's been so long... I wonder if I will ever catch up.
Thanks, Nessie. You rock.

Last edited by danrevell; 09-04-2016 at 10:37 PM. Reason: italics
 
Old 09-05-2016, 12:31 AM   #59
danrevell
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[QUOTE rokytnji:

(Quoting me
But, due to time constraints, I must hoist you on your own petard.
<end quoting me>

Apparently, not only did rokytnji grok this archaic allusion, he/she replied in a succint, chilling fashion, with a link that I will not plagiarise here out of respect for an individual I seem to have underestimated. (Besides, he/she posted it on an open forum, it's a chuckler, worth backing up for....)
But today's hats-off for best tagline goes to rokytnji for THIS: (priceless!!!)

Sometimes you have to burn bridges to keep the crazies from following you.


Please bear in mind that I have been off the grid (and the internet) for several years, and this may be old hack to some of you... but then, old is not bad, it's just old. Still priceless.
 
Old 09-05-2016, 08:28 AM   #60
yancek
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Quote:
Which would indicate that I did indeed have Ubuntu on a separate partition, and ran WINE from there.
If you had Ubuntu on a separate partition, you didn't use wubi to install it. Wubi just doesn't work that way. You could install wine on Ubuntu with a wubi install but there wouldn't be much point and I expect running anything that way would be really slow.

The wubi install puts a menu entry in the windows bootloader so if you see Puppy on that menu then that would indicate you use windows to boot all. You can download and run the bootinfoscript or the boot repair script which will output a file with that and a lot more information including which system has code in the MBR and your partitions, their sizes and much more.

I'm not sure what's up with your quote input but it would be more readable if when you want to quote someone, look at the row of icons just above the text entry box. The far right is blue with php on it. Go to the icon two to the left and click it and then paste in your quote in the text entry window.

Did you run the fdisk command I suggested? You didn't post it.

Last edited by yancek; 09-05-2016 at 11:48 AM.
 
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