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Old 02-28-2005, 12:48 AM   #1
Thoughtscape
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Question Absolute-Know-Nothing-About-Linux Beginner


Hi guys,
A few days ago a friend of mine convinced me to give Linux a try. I have always been a PC man [never mac. ever. ever lol.] Not to bag Linux b4 I get to know it but there is a reason it is so big. Useability. I am comparing the two before I make up my mind. So far I am having trouble installing programs.

I recently bought Linux Format magazine that had a copy of Fedore Core 3 on a DVD as well as some other utilites [one being MoreAmp]. Now I already have WinXP on mine and setting up another partition and installing Linux as a second boot option was not a problem.

I have it installed and, besides from FC3 running significantly slower than WinXP [2.8gig Prescott, 120 gig HDD, 40 gig HDD, 1 Gig DDR 3200 Ram. So its no slouch], cannot work out even the basics like how to install programs.

I have worked out that you have to 'make' it or 'compile' it or something and have tried it but for the life of me I cannot work out how to do it. Its little basic things like that that are impeding my comparison process

So. If anyone knows a GREAT newbie FC3 site which assumes NO knowledge of Linux/Unix could you get back to me?

Also I have a digital tv tuner card that I cannot get to work with FC3. Now this is not surprising. I read in Australian Linux Journal that the more recent TV Tuners are problematic in terms of getting them to work.

Can someone tell me how to compile source code so I can download the source and compile it myself. As per what all the documentation points at having to do.

I don't mind chasing down the source code for the drivers for all my peripherals and whatnot. I just don't know how to compile.

Bear in mind, however, that I am a complete beginner. I was a computer tech before my current job so I am not a beginner in all things computing but just in Linux. The difference between the two OSs is quite marked. Assume I have never even thought about programming. [All I know is that to get source code to run you need to compile it. I do not know how or with what you do such a thing ].

Anyway guys, thanks in advance and I hope you get back to me.

Cheers,

Michael
 
Old 02-28-2005, 01:01 AM   #2
detpenguin
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check out this site:

rute tutorial

it's full if excellent info, especially about rpm based distros like fedora, and it's very easy to follow.
 
Old 02-28-2005, 01:04 AM   #3
Thoughtscape
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Nearly forgot - Shared Partition

Hi guys, nearly forgot to ask.

How do I create a shared HDD so that I can access both Win XP and Fedore Core 3 Files. The friend that convinced me told me that you can do this and since I am comparing the two OSs I need to access all my previous files.

Thanks guys,
Michael
 
Old 02-28-2005, 01:23 AM   #4
chris318
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I have it installed and, besides from FC3 running significantly slower than WinXP
FC3 is meant to a very user friendly linux. Everything is turned on by default which is why it runs so slow. Good to learn on though. Once you get the feel of linux you can go get a more raw distro and then you'll be watching it run circles around xp.

You create another partition and make fat32.
Then mount in in linux like:

shell$ mount -t vfat /dev/hda? /mnt/hda4
where hda? is the partition you created... hda1 ,hda2 ,hda3

or you can simple just mount your windows xp partition in linux
For example, assuming it is the first partition of you hard drive.

shell$ mkdir /mnt/win
shell$ mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win

Linux can also read ntfs ... mount -t ntfs, however is has limited write support to ntfs. It can only edit files and save them back (if the size is not changed)
 
Old 02-28-2005, 07:28 PM   #5
Thoughtscape
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Thanks for the immediate response guys. Ok, here is how I have it all partitioned. I have a 120 gig and a 40 gig. The 120 gig is Primary Master and is C - 25gig, D - 45gig, E - 50gig with the WINXP on C as NTFS [or FAT32 I can't remember].

The 40 gig is Primary Slave and thus is, I think hdb1 and hdb2 [2nd HDD, divided into C - 12gig and D - 26gig]. Is that right? [re hdb1 and 2?]

Now if I mount an NTFS/FAT32 in CL, will it show up in the gui? How is that possible seeing that I cannot see it in CL nor the GUI?

->"shell$ mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win"
Ahh yes, and what does the t mean in the mounting command?

Thanks for the link to that rute site. I don't know if it for FC3 or not as there is a picture in part 3 [Hardware] of one archaic piece of technology lol but I have saved it all [downloads corrupted. both of them] so I just saved every page. But damn! There is a lot of information there. Thanks again.

Re MoreAmp/installing programs. Is it just a matter of "make" then "make install"?
If so can you put the correct syntax as a post pretty please? lol Coz I have no idea where to look. The readme assumes you know what you are doing. I, of course do not lol.

No doubt I will be back if I have any more problems lol

Cheers, and thanks.

Michael
 
Old 02-28-2005, 07:42 PM   #6
chris318
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Now if I mount an NTFS/FAT32 in CL

I don't know what CL is?

->"shell$ mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win"
Ahh yes, and what does the -t mean in the mounting command?


t is for type of file system. vfat or ntfs. don't forget you have to make the win directory in /mnt or wherever you want to mount it.

you are correct, hdb is you second hard driver

To make a program from source you have to do a configure first.

./configure
make
make install

there all lots of options you can put in there do a
./configure --help | less
 
Old 02-28-2005, 07:47 PM   #7
ploosh
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I don't know if you're set on your distro or not, but I just installed Mandrake 10.1 and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. For installing programs, Mandrake has a tool called rpmdrake that pretty much makes finding and installing lots of applications simple. This post is probably the most thorough and rewarding on the topic. Coupled with another piece called Easy URPMI and there are almost too many applications to choose from. Basically, I just log into rpmdrake, search on what type of app I want (ie Wifi), then look through the list that comes up. When I find something, I just select it to install. If there's a prerequisite component, it will tell you. Once you have it installed, it's removed from the list. It's a fantastic tool.
Being a new Linux user (I just became a convert last week - and I don't want to go back) I can sympathize with your concerns, but re-assure you that there are solutions if you're patient enough to find them.
 
Old 02-28-2005, 08:44 PM   #8
Thoughtscape
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Hi guys,
Sorry CL = command line. I did try that 'mount' thing exactly as stated except I added the partition I wished to try, in this case hda3 [E:50gig]. And it couldn't find it.

How can I get the command line interface to return a list of all my drives and all their partitions? I know fdisk et al can do these things but I just want a list from a CL command. Know what I mean? Because all I can do is get a ls of my pwd et al. I have done all this as Root. I have also "mkdir" a directory called /mnt/win exactly as instructed.

Though one thing did confuse me lol the "Shell$" I took that for being typed in. I started with mount instead and it worked. Well it woulda lol thus my current problem.

Thanks ploosh. I have no intention of giving up on Linux [ahh yes, FC is the only destrib I can get my hands on and apparently is the 2nd best in a review I read so I thought 'why not' lol. It is noted for not being as user friendly as Mandrake 10.1 <- which is, interestingly enough, the destrib my friend showed me. What is WiFi?

Chris, I chose the full installation for exactly that purpose [learning ALL lol]. With that configure command
"./configure
make
make install
"
Do I have to put the files in any particular directory or make like
"./configure <name of app to be installed>
make <name of app to be installed>
make install <name of app to be installed>
"
or something? Haven't tried it yet. Am still at work and won't be able to reply til tomorrow so as detailed as you can get will be absolutely appreciated

And re:
"You create another partition and make fat32.
Then mount in in linux like:

shell$ mount -t vfat /dev/hda? /mnt/hda4
where hda? is the partition you created... hda1 ,hda2 ,hda3
"
I have tried both [during lunch] and didn't work. Is the 'hda4' in the above example anything in particular or is it just the name of the new one I 'created' in the above example? Dumb question, I know

Dazed and [Still] Confused

Cheers guys,

Michael
 
Old 02-28-2005, 09:26 PM   #9
KimVette
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I noticed that no one else mentioned this but a lot of the questions you're asking are covered by other threads. You can often find an answer by using Search more quickly than posting and then potentially waiting hours or even days for a reply.
 
Old 02-28-2005, 09:41 PM   #10
JaseP
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XPee is faster?!?!? In what capacity??? Do you mean launching the word processing and spreadsheet software??? Do yo understand why that is??? XPee loads part of Office code every time your machine starts. That way it only has to load a part of the code to start the app. Linux doesn't do this by default... In fact its somewhat of a process to make it do that. Also, Fedora tends to be bloated. Go with a leaner Linux or learn how to cut out apps and processes you don't need.

System architecture is very different as you note. Linux is a REAL OS,... unlike WinTendo... You have to understand,... everything in Linux is a file... hardware, software,... everything. Some "files" are special, like those contained in /dev, which are the system hardware. File structure is generally along the following lines:

/ -- root the root directory of the system (not just a particular drive)
/usr -- where installed user programs are stored
/opt -- similar to user (not contained in all Linux variants)
/home -- where user accounts are stored (user accounts are where you do your work, you should rarely if ever log in as root, but instead su to root from your user account) -- This partition should be partitioned out seperately for an ideal situation. That way you can re-install or upgrade more easily without erasing your user data. The bigger this partition, the more room you create for your files, and any programs that you install for your particular user account (such as Wine/WineX/Cedega Windoze emulation).
/mnt -- where mounted drives that are not part of the main architecture are mounted
/media -- where mass storage devices (CDs, DVDs, USB Keydrives, etc.) are mounted (not on all Linux variants).

The most common shells are bash and sh. To launch a script, you type:
bash scriptname
or
sh scriptname

As far as your tuner card, please specify the make and model, it will help us help you.
 
Old 02-28-2005, 10:53 PM   #11
Thoughtscape
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lol Jasep, In this case indeed XP is faster. It is far quicker to load both itself and apps. Obviously this is because I am an XP expert and have tweaked it to be thus lol. And re the part of office loading every time I start windows. That is as simple as either deleting it from your start folder [which I have done] or msconfig. Then theres the regedit menushowdelay that speeds that up also. But thats all by the by. I need to learn linux. Not for any particular project. I just want to. So lets not start comparing them just yet lol. I know too little about Linux. Though I don't really mind the speed difference atm. I installed the whole thing of a chunky destrib b/c the reviews it gave said it was more stable than any of the others.

At the moment I am not interested in learning how to cut out apps I don't need. I need to learn the basics first lol.

lol isn't everything in any computer/os a file as well? is that different from linux. You mentioned it specifically. I am sure there is a reason

How do you list the harddrives? atm that is all i am concerned about as I wish to access my vfat files. The next step is to install this mp3 player called MoreAmp. Once that is done I will probably start trying to get the digital tv tuner to work [I don't remember the brand name/model etc, sorry ]

I am also sorry about asking qns to which there may be posts. I have looked over the entire length of this and othe forums and as I don't know what I am looking for I don't recognise it and thus can't search for it in the forums. I have tried make, make install. but, for example, none of them tell me what Chris did re ./configure

Ahh yes, if there are posts could you give me some BAAAAAASIC topics to search for? lol

Again thanks.

Michael
- Ever The DumbAss
 
Old 03-01-2005, 02:13 PM   #12
JaseP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thoughtscape
lol isn't everything in any computer/os a file as well? is that different from linux. You mentioned it specifically. I am sure there is a reason
Actually, no. In Windoze architecture, hardware is not a file, it is a device,... not addressed on the system AS A FILE, as it is in Linux. For example:
Windoze;
Drive 0 and Drive 1, each with 2 partitions, would look like 4 devices to the system, Drives C, D, E, and F.
Linux;
Drive 0 and Drive 1, each with 2 partitions, would look like 4 FILES to the system,... /dev/hda0, /dev/hda1, /dev/hdb0 and /dev/hdb1. Each of those partitions would then get mapped to a mount point such as /, /usr, swap, or /home,... etc.
In Linux your graphics card would be a file as well,... located in /dev, as would your USB ports, your other serial ports, etc.

Quote:
How do you list the harddrives? atm that is all i am concerned about as I wish to access my vfat files. The next step is to install this mp3 player called MoreAmp. Once that is done I will probably start trying to get the digital tv tuner to work [I don't remember the brand name/model etc, sorry ]
Again, the hard drives are located in /dev as a device, with a name like /dev/hda0, or /dev/hdb1, etc. You must determine which of those drives contains your vFAT partition and instruct the system to mount it in the file located at /etc/fstab as a FAT drive. Chances are, the installation will see the drive and set it as a mount point at something like; /mnt/windows, for you. If not, you may have to do so manually, as root (but don't stay root, only be root for making the changes).

For details on how to mount and unmount drive with the mount and umount [not s spelling error] commands, type man mount in a console. the switch "-t" means "type" of filesystem (in this case, a FAT filesystem).
 
Old 03-02-2005, 10:26 AM   #13
PTrenholme
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Just read this thread, and I notice that nobody mentioned that Fedora does NOT support NTFS "out-of-the-box." (I understand the Fedora is intended to be completely open source, and there are "possible" legal issues with NTFS support since M$ has (copyrighted | trade marked) NTFS.)

So, Thoughtscape, if your XP drives are NTFS (which is the default) search these fourms (or just "google") for NTFS. There's lots here.

Oh, to automatically have your drives mounted when you boot, you'll need to add a few lines to /etc/ftab. Again, there is lots about this in these forums.

Re speed vs. XP, I'm running FC3 on an old 3GHz Intel HT CPU, with a terabyte of disk, and a GB of RAM, dual booting with XP Pro, and find FC3 MUCH faster lhan XP. (I do have the "development" FC3 installed, but I don't think that would make any difference. Just uses a little more disk space.)

I haven't "tweeked" anything, just put in the DVD, loaded, and I was off and running -- to this forum.
 
Old 03-02-2005, 04:27 PM   #14
shengchieh
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> So. If anyone knows a GREAT newbie FC3 site which assumes
> NO knowledge of Linux/Unix could you get back to me?

Take a look at some of the links in my webpage,

http://www.websamba.com/Linux_Docs_Links

Welcome to linux.

Sheng-Chieh
 
Old 03-02-2005, 04:48 PM   #15
chris318
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> So. If anyone knows a GREAT newbie FC3 site which assumes
> NO knowledge of Linux/Unix could you get back to me?

are you kidding. ever try google. they are all over the place man.
 
  


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