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Old 07-09-2009, 10:50 PM   #1
twerked
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a wee bit overwhelmed, just need some guidance


so i got a new computer, a cheap emachines from wallyworld. it's an emachines el1300g. this guy here: http://www.emachines.com/products/pr...od=EL1300G-01w. as soon as i got it home i put in an xp professional 64 bit installation disk. installed, and all was well...for about a month or two. then it just started pissing me off and getting stuff to work in 64 bit was just a pita. so i tried to reinstall 32 bit xp professional. the product key doesn't work for some reason. so i figured i would try to switch to linux because i don't want to have to pay for a new windows disk. i don't even know where to start. there are so many forums/user guides/distros/etc. i'm basically trying to find something that i can watch movies, play music, browse the web, and maybe do some light video/photo editing. i have some a very small background in programming, and it makes sense to me, i just am overwhelmed with the information that abounds everywhere. i apologise if this is the wrong forum. i tried looking around for a 'how-to' start from scratch type of thing, and i couldn't find it. so any help is greatly appreciated. if this is in the wrong place or there is a how to i missed, just mods, just send me a link and lock it up. thanks
 
Old 07-09-2009, 11:06 PM   #2
jefro
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Let me try to give it a shot.

Linux for most people is what we call a disto. Distro's are pre-made collections of collections of base software. What that means to you is that you can for the most part choose a disto that more closely suites your needs. Might see distrowatch.com for the latest list of what tends to be downloaded. Not exact numbers of course. See the write up.

Second good news is most distro's offer live cd's. You burn and boot and try. If you don't want to waste cd's or dvd's then consider a virtual machine or even boot to usb flash.

Third is that everything you know to do in windows is usually mirrored in some way in linux. The words that are used are the only barrier. The names of the applications are new and different is all.


See screen shots at screen shot places, look at distrowatch comments on each, try out live cd's and or install.

The top 20 or so might be worth looking at.
 
Old 07-09-2009, 11:11 PM   #3
Johnnie J
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Hi twerked,

I'm pretty new to Linux/BSD distros myself, but have been two that I like. Ubuntu and PC-BSD, both available in 64 bit distros and should be able to do all that you've mentioned. The GUIs (graphical user interfaces) are quite good, but different than windows and do take a little getting used to. PC-BSD has a nice short newbies guide to the GUI and I'm sure Ubuntu has more than one.
 
Old 07-09-2009, 11:16 PM   #4
onebuck
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Hi,

Welcome to LQ!

'The LiveCD List' is a great place to start. You can use a LiveCD to test drive the distribution without doing a install to your HD. Some allow you to load to memory if you have sufficient resources.

The above link and others available from 'Slackware-Links'. More than just Slackware® links!

If you take gander at the 'Slackware® links' wiki you will find all kinds of informational links that can aid you.
 
Old 07-09-2009, 11:21 PM   #5
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnie J View Post
Hi twerked,

I'm pretty new to Linux/BSD distros myself, but have been two that I like. Ubuntu and PC-BSD, both available in 64 bit distros and should be able to do all that you've mentioned. The GUIs (graphical user interfaces) are quite good, but different than windows and do take a little getting used to. PC-BSD has a nice short newbies guide to the GUI and I'm sure Ubuntu has more than one.
Most '64bit' distribution don't have the 32bit apps available for them. '32bit' does. If the 64bit doesn't have multilibs then your 32bit app is not going to work. Just remember that not all 32bit apps will move to 64bit.
 
Old 07-10-2009, 01:41 AM   #6
jay73
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@onebuck

Which applications do you have in mind exactly? I think flash and the sun jre plug-in were the only ones holding back 64 bit but that stopped being about two years ago when the nspluginwrapper was introduced. And have become available as 64 applications in the meantime. I also think that this is a non-issue for twerked as the 32 bit applications he has in mind are probably windows applications; which will run on wine regardless of the architecture of the underlying OS - or not at all, again regardless of the underlying OS.

Last edited by jay73; 07-10-2009 at 01:44 AM.
 
Old 07-10-2009, 08:13 AM   #7
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
@onebuck

Which applications do you have in mind exactly? I think flash and the sun jre plug-in were the only ones holding back 64 bit but that stopped being about two years ago when the nspluginwrapper was introduced. And have become available as 64 applications in the meantime. I also think that this is a non-issue for twerked as the 32 bit applications he has in mind are probably windows applications; which will run on wine regardless of the architecture of the underlying OS - or not at all, again regardless of the underlying OS.
There are loads of 32bit that will not migrate to 64bit. That's one of the things with lots of GNU/Linux distributions trying to move things to 64bit. I think Slackware moving to a parallel releases of x86_32bit & x86_64bit will be a monumental release that meets the needs of the world. If the user requires 64bit with 32bit applications then again 'multilib' capable will be advantageous. Otherwise just use the 32bit release.

I did not read M$ 32bit as the applications needs of the OP. But a general need to do the following;
Quote:
i'm basically trying to find something that i can watch movies, play music, browse the web, and maybe do some light video/photo editing.
So generally it would suit the OP to run 32bit since his/her request seemed to me to be winxp based experience. The OP did say issues with XP64;
Quote:
then it just started pissing me off and getting stuff to work in 64 bit was just a pita.
That leads me to think that 32bit apps in general for the OP not necessarily M$ based applications. GNU/Linux has enough 32bit apps to meet his/her needs.

As I stated before 32bit applications would not necessarily move to 64bit. The 64bit requirements are low for the general public. '32bit' will be around for a long time. There are just too many low end machines(32bit) around the world that won't be upgraded let alone replaced. The 32bit needs will be around for a long time. Now for people that can afford to move to 64bit on a whim then 'multilib' will meet their 32bit applications on a 64bit machine.

As for 'WINE' on a GNU/Linux platform, I would prefer a 'VM' over a emulator anytime. Especially on that whimsical 64bit machine of mine.
 
Old 07-10-2009, 10:20 AM   #8
twerked
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thanks for all the help everyone. the biggest issue right now is that the windows install is stopped at the 'insert product key' stage, so i don't even have a fully functioning os on the computer right now. (i'm using my roommates ancient dell laptop with windows 2000)

32 vs 64 bit isn't a huge deal for me, i'd like to have it run in 64 bit but i'm thinking it will be easier to just run it in 32.

i'll have a look around and try some out. thanks again
 
Old 07-12-2009, 08:10 PM   #9
twerked
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well, i went ahead and installed ubuntu jaunty jackalope 32 bit. seems to work just fine, and i'm starting to get the hang of it. the only thing that is taking me some time is the whole synaptic package manager and knowing what to download and such. but i assume that just takes some time. i can't seem to find the mp3 plugin for rhythmbox. and it appears rhythmbox will keep my music folder organised? which is huge if it does.

thanks for the advise everyone, i'll keep checking back in and reading up on stuff.
 
Old 07-12-2009, 08:21 PM   #10
jay73
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You will need to set up the medibuntu repository to get most of the unofficial plug-ins. Just search google; the site has a how-to.
 
Old 07-12-2009, 08:42 PM   #11
lazlow
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Onebuck

I really would like to hear more about these 32 bit linux apps that are not available in 64bit. In RHEL/Centos and Fedora I cannot think of a single application that is not available in both. Flash is available in 64bit(and has been for a couple of years). It was the the last major thing that I knew of that was not available in 64 bit. I watched and tried 64 bit from FC4 to F8, and until F8 I agreed with you and dropped 64bit(on each version) in favor of 32bit. When F8 was released (about the same time as 64bit flash) there was no longer anything that I (or most users IMHO) needed that was missing in 64bit. 64bit now runs on all my 64bit machines and there is nothing that I can run on my 32bit machines that I cannot run on my 64bit machines.
 
Old 07-12-2009, 08:46 PM   #12
i92guboj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twerked View Post
so i got a new computer, a cheap emachines from wallyworld. it's an emachines el1300g. this guy here: http://www.emachines.com/products/pr...od=EL1300G-01w. as soon as i got it home i put in an xp professional 64 bit installation disk. installed, and all was well...for about a month or two. then it just started pissing me off and getting stuff to work in 64 bit was just a pita. so i tried to reinstall 32 bit xp professional. the product key doesn't work for some reason. so i figured i would try to switch to linux because i don't want to have to pay for a new windows disk. i don't even know where to start. there are so many forums/user guides/distros/etc. i'm basically trying to find something that i can watch movies, play music, browse the web, and maybe do some light video/photo editing. i have some a very small background in programming, and it makes sense to me, i just am overwhelmed with the information that abounds everywhere. i apologise if this is the wrong forum. i tried looking around for a 'how-to' start from scratch type of thing, and i couldn't find it. so any help is greatly appreciated. if this is in the wrong place or there is a how to i missed, just mods, just send me a link and lock it up. thanks
Welcome, and yes, you've come to the right place.

In comparison with your windows experience, you will find that 64 bits linux will be more satisfactory. Most OSS programmers do care about portability, and since Linux runs in a very wide range of architectures, most OSS software can be compiled and run for any architecture, and not just x86 like for most windows applications.

Some common distros for starters are Mandriva, SuSE, Ubuntu and Fedora, in no particular order. But there are lots more. You can check distrowatch.com, and you can download livecd images to test the distro before installing it on your HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,


Most '64bit' distribution don't have the 32bit apps available for them. '32bit' does. If the 64bit doesn't have multilibs then your 32bit app is not going to work. Just remember that not all 32bit apps will move to 64bit.
I have no personal experience but I'd guess that most do. As a rule of thumb, any distro that can run wine in amd64 supports multilib, and 99% of the distros will run wine, so, they support multilib. Wine can't be compiled for x86_64, only x86. Same goes for grub.

As these are just a couple of exceptions, as said above, most software is available for x86_64. Including java, flash, graphics drivers, etc. There's no need to use nspluginwrapper any longer.

I am not saying that he must run x86 or x86_64. I am not going into that debate because there's already enough of that in the net and this forum, and in any case that's up for him to decide. All I say is that there's no downside to run x86_64 nowadays, unless it's for a very specific case with a very concrete application.

x86_64 will fulfill his requisites just as well as x86.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
As for 'WINE' on a GNU/Linux platform, I would prefer a 'VM' over a emulator anytime. Especially on that whimsical 64bit machine of mine.
[/quote]

One of the main stuff that people use wine for are games. And virtual machines can't run anything better than a solitaire, at least not until now. VirtualBox 3.0 is supposed to have support for directx and opengl acceleration, I haven't tested it though, and I am still a bit skeptical about that.

Wine Is Not an Emulator (in fact that's what the "wine" acronym is supposed to mean) either, but a reimplementation of the windows apis using the linux kernel and xlib amongst other pieces to achieve binary compatibility with windows binaries. In a certain way, windows exes run natively when using wine, at least, as natively as a bash script does. But in any case, this is just a semantic issue which is not too relevant here either. It just depends on how do you define "emulator".

Last edited by i92guboj; 07-12-2009 at 08:47 PM.
 
Old 07-12-2009, 11:36 PM   #13
twerked
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i burned a 32 bit and a 64 bit copy of ubuntu each, but i think i'm just gonna stay with 32 bit. i really have no need for 64 bit, and i right now i don't have enough memory to really justify 64 bit (only 2 gigs). all i really use it for is interweb, music, movies, and maybe some light video editing, as i said before.

so i set up mediabuntu repository, and thought i had gotten the mp3 plugin, but the mp3s still cannot be read.

so far i really like linux/ubuntu. it does really all that i need. it's just going to take some getting used to.

are there any programs like mediamonkey to manage/organise music? i had been using songbird in windows as a player, and mediamonkey to keep it organised. for some reason i thought i should let songbird manage my folders instead of mediamonkey and it fugged everything up. i've been trying to reorganise it, but mediamonkey kept crashing in windows, then my windows crapped the bed. so my music folder is in near total disarray and is in need of fixing
 
Old 07-13-2009, 10:13 AM   #14
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by i92guboj View Post
<snip>
One of the main stuff that people use wine for are games. And virtual machines can't run anything better than a solitaire, at least not until now. VirtualBox 3.0 is supposed to have support for directx and opengl acceleration, I haven't tested it though, and I am still a bit skeptical about that.

Wine Is Not an Emulator (in fact that's what the "wine" acronym is supposed to mean) either, but a reimplementation of the windows apis using the linux kernel and xlib amongst other pieces to achieve binary compatibility with windows binaries. In a certain way, windows exes run natively when using wine, at least, as natively as a bash script does. But in any case, this is just a semantic issue which is not too relevant here either. It just depends on how do you define "emulator".
My choice of words for 'emulator' vs 'translator' was incorrect.
The 'translation layer' is slow and the resultant actions are somewhat the same. As for the GNU/Linux kernel running the 'M$ API', that's the quirk. 'WINE';

Quote:
excerpt from 'WINE';

Wine is a translation layer (a program loader) capable of running Windows applications on Linux and other POSIX compatible operating systems. Windows programs running in Wine act as native programs would, running without the performance or memory usage penalties of an emulator, with a similar look and feel to other applications on your desktop.
Their claim of not being an emulator but a 'program loader'.

The comparison of a native operation is not correct. Plus to use 'bash' makes your argument even weaker. My semantics error is do in part to the mis-use of the term emulator instead of translator.

'WINE' basically takes the machine instructions for an application meant for a M$ Windows and presents the code translation(s) to the kernel in a form that will hopefully be presented in the original(native) format. The code that is presented to the kernel is not native but a translated code. Hopefully the result will be in a form that is presented on the resident will be the same as it would be on the native.
The weak point of the translator is having the same libraries as one would have on the native machine. The build of the library will be what will decide how or what is presented.
 
Old 07-13-2009, 10:54 AM   #15
tredegar
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Quote:
so i set up mediabuntu repository, and thought i had gotten the mp3 plugin, but the mp3s still cannot be read.
You need these if you want mp3 support, and other useful stuff.
Obviously change "hardy" if you are running jaunty or whatever:

Code:
deb http://packages.medibuntu.org/ hardy free non-free
deb-src http://packages.medibuntu.org/ hardy free non-free
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy universe
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates universe
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates universe
Then you'll need to install libxine1-ffmpeg
Might as well get lame whilst you are at it, then you can encode MP3s as well as play them.
Quote:
are there any programs like mediamonkey to manage/organise music?
I like amarok which is in the 'buntu repositories.
Install it, start it, Settings-> configure Amarok -> collection and tell it which directories to scan for your music. The interface is highly customisable, so just play with it until you are satisfied.
 
  


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