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Old 05-03-2011, 01:03 AM   #1
m4ckntosh@gmail.com
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a noob attempting to learn the way


I have black ubuntu installed on a slave. i would like to setup a dummy network to start learning the different progs. i have an old system that i can use. i have tried to DL DVL, but everywhere i go the mirrors are down or the site is under construction. what would be a good OS that i can use as the victim and what prog would be good to start with in ubuntu. I have learned some basics of linux, but find it hard to even install progs that are not in the ubuntu software manager. i AM A WINDOWS USER AND HAVE BEEN FOR ALL MY COMP LIFE. Thank you for any help that is offered, NOOB.
 
Old 05-03-2011, 02:21 AM   #2
kbp
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Have you tried Hackerdemia ?
 
Old 05-03-2011, 02:53 AM   #3
m4ckntosh@gmail.com
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nope, but i'll give it a try- thanx
 
Old 05-03-2011, 09:02 AM   #4
Bruce Hill
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IMHO Ubuntu is not designed for someone to learn "Linux", as we say, when we
are actually referring to using a Linux distro. Because Ubuntu hacks and patches
so much upstream source to conform it to The Ubuntu Way (TM).

My recommendation would be Gentoo. It is a source based distro that you build as
you install it, and if you follow the Gentoo Handbook, and get help from the IRC channel
#gentoo at irc.freenode.net you will get a Linux distribution installed that is built for
your computer.

You could also learn much more by starting with Linux From Scratch, where you build
the entire thing in a chroot environment from another distro -- that black ubuntu thing
may or may not have all the tools you need to start.

Then there is Slackware, but it's built for older computers. If you're still using something
either i686 or earlier, it will be built for your computer. If you're past that, it will run much
slower than Gentoo, or LFS, on the same hardware.

Either of those three will allow you to build your own software with a good set of tools, and
learn more generalized Linux. Ubuntu is going to require you to learn Ubuntu, and you will
find the standards followed by the older, stable Linux distros are mostly changed or hidden.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-03-2011, 09:20 AM   #5
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Hill View Post
Then there is Slackware, but it's built for older computers. If you're still using something
either i686 or earlier, it will be built for your computer. If you're past that, it will run much
slower than Gentoo, or LFS, on the same hardware.
I disagree. I run Slackware 13.37 x86_64 on my AMD Phenom X6 1055T (I wouldn't consider that an older computer) and the performance differences to any other distro is negligible, if there even is any.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-03-2011, 10:34 AM   #6
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
I disagree. I run Slackware 13.37 x86_64 on my AMD Phenom X6 1055T (I wouldn't consider that an older computer) and the performance differences to any other distro is negligible, if there even is any.
How would you even know the performance on Slackware vs. Gentoo?
(we will be specific, not 'any other distro')

Which distros have you compared to Slackware? Let's rid ourselves of FUD

You should read the SlackBuild scripts:
Code:
# Automatically determine the architecture we're building on:
if [ -z "$ARCH" ]; then
  case "$( uname -m )" in
    i?86) export ARCH=i486 ;;
    arm*) export ARCH=arm ;;
    # Unless $ARCH is already set, use uname -m for all other archs:
       *) export ARCH=$( uname -m ) ;;
  esac
fi
Slackware64-leet-glibc
Code:
  x86_64)
    OPTIMIZ="-O3 -fPIC"
    LIBDIRSUFFIX="64"
    ;;

case $ARCH in
  x86_64)
    TARGET=${TARGET:-x86_64}
    ;;
  i486)
    # This should be i486 for all 32-bit x86 arch:
    TARGET=${TARGET:-i486}
    ;;
esac
Slackware64-leet-make
Code:
elif [ "$ARCH" = "x86_64" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -fPIC"
  LIBDIRSUFFIX="64"
else
Slackware64-leet-MPlayer
Code:
# Automatically determine the architecture we're building on:
if [ -z "$ARCH" ]; then
  case "$( uname -m )" in
    i?86) export ARCH=i486 ;;
    arm*) export ARCH=arm ;;
    # Unless $ARCH is already set, use uname -m for all other archs:
       *) export ARCH=$( uname -m ) ;;
  esac
fi

DOCS="AUTHORS Changelog Copyright LICENSE README DOCS/HTML DOCS/tech"

DEFSKIN=${DEFSKIN:-"Blue"}  # Download more skins at the following url:
SKINVER=${SKINVER:-"1.7"}   # http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html

# Available languages: all bg cs de dk el en es fr hu it ja
# ko mk nb nl pl ro ru sk sv tr uk pt_BR zh_CN zh_TW
LANGUAGES="en nl fr de es"  # The default is to just add "en" documentation

if [ "$ARCH" = "x86_64" ]; then
  LIBDIRSUFFIX="64"
  # --enable-runtime-cpudetection is supported only for x86, x86_64, and PPC
  EXTRACONFIGUREOPTIONS="--enable-runtime-cpudetection"
elif [ "$ARCH" = "i486" -o \
       "$ARCH" = "i586" -o \
       "$ARCH" = "i686" ]; then
  LIBDIRSUFFIX=""
  EXTRACONFIGUREOPTIONS="--enable-runtime-cpudetection"
else
  LIBDIRSUFFIX=""
  EXTRACONFIGUREOPTIONS=""
fi
You are not getting optimizations for your specific CPU, and it's not even
consistent across packages.

Last edited by Bruce Hill; 05-03-2011 at 10:35 AM.
 
Old 05-03-2011, 11:12 AM   #7
Perceptor
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Try Arch Linux or Slackware. Both have excellent documentation.
 
Old 05-03-2011, 11:15 AM   #8
TobiSGD
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You are writing that it will be much slower on Slackware. That is what I doubt. But for a fair comparison, when I have some time I will install Gentoo and run some benchmarks.
 
Old 05-03-2011, 02:18 PM   #9
m4ckntosh@gmail.com
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WOW!!!! lot more info than i expected. if i understand this correctly, I should build my own linux OS using slackware or gentoo and then learn how to use the pentest progs?
 
Old 05-03-2011, 02:44 PM   #10
markush
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Hello,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Hill View Post
...
Then there is Slackware, but it's built for older computers. If you're still using something
either i686 or earlier, it will be built for your computer. If you're past that, it will run much
slower than Gentoo, or LFS, on the same hardware.
...
Slackware isn't built for older computers, I'm running Slackware64-13.37 on my three computers with AMD-K8 and AMD-K10 boards and all the hardware is supported.

I agree in that Slackware does support older hardware very well. Since the old versions of Slackware are still maintained one can install older versions without any lack of security. One will still get security-patches.

About faster and slower systems: Slackware is not (noticeable) slower than Gentoo. The only programs where I noticed that Gentoo is noticeable faster are those with elaborate localization-packages as KDE and OpenOffice. Here Gentoo has the advantage that via the LINGUAS-USE-flag the support for german menus etc. is built directly into the program whereas with Slackware an additional localization-package is installed. This causes such programs to start much faster on a Gentoo-system.

I'm using Gentoo since since about 1.5 years and Slackware since 17 years.

Markus

Last edited by markush; 05-03-2011 at 02:45 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old 05-03-2011, 03:48 PM   #11
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ckntosh@gmail.com View Post
WOW!!!! lot more info than i expected. if i understand this correctly, I should build my own linux OS using slackware or gentoo and then learn how to use the pentest progs?
Maybe this article will help you.

My suggestion was another distro rather than Ubuntu, because personally...
and we can still have personal choices...
Ubuntu hacks and patches too much source, beginning with the Linux kernel,
for me to consider using it for any serious work. Now if you just want a desktop
Linux which supposedly updates itself like Windows, maybe it's for you.

On the other hand, I have friends who are developers who use Ubuntu.

Again, these are all just opinions...
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-03-2011, 04:17 PM   #12
culaterout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Hill View Post

My recommendation would be Gentoo. It is a source based distro that you build as
you install it, and if you follow the Gentoo Handbook, and get help from the IRC channel
#gentoo at irc.freenode.net you will get a Linux distribution installed that is built for
your computer.

You could also learn much more by starting with Linux From Scratch, where you build
the entire thing in a chroot environment from another distro -- that black ubuntu thing
may or may not have all the tools you need to start.

Then there is Slackware, but it's built for older computers. If you're still using something
either i686 or earlier, it will be built for your computer. If you're past that, it will run much
slower than Gentoo, or LFS, on the same hardware.

Either of those three will allow you to build your own software with a good set of tools, and
learn more generalized Linux. Ubuntu is going to require you to learn Ubuntu, and you will
find the standards followed by the older, stable Linux distros are mostly changed or hidden.

I think comparing anyone of these distros is a mistake......


Personally I would express the differences... let user decide on there own what level of understanding there after....

Gentoos = expert level (for a beginner this may take a long time to install) (frustration could set in)

Arch Linux = intermediate level ( for a beginner this may take several hours to install) ( range of emotions may set in)

Slackware = intermediate ( for beginners this may take several hours to install) ( range of emotions may set in)


I would look into the structure of the system not all are the same.......

This is definitely Alice going down the rabbit hole

I think u need to look at what is realistic in time if u need to suck out every ounce of process power then gentoo... if u could live with extra few seconds in access time then look into intermediate level distro....

This idea of going straight into the fire is going to depend on ur ability to read and apply the knowledge.... if ur attention to detail is not ur strong point then this could lead to a lot of miss steps....
 
Old 05-03-2011, 08:42 PM   #13
thund3rstruck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ckntosh@gmail.com View Post
what would be a good OS that i can use as the victim
Windows XP is the best target/victim period. Every conceivable malware runs on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ckntosh@gmail.com View Post
what prog would be good to start with in ubuntu. I have learned some basics of linux, but find it hard to even install progs that are not in the ubuntu software manager
I personally can't stand Ubuntu but it's very user friendly so it might be a good choice for you.

[mod_edit]dubious bits removed[/mod_edit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ckntosh@gmail.com View Post
i AM A WINDOWS USER AND HAVE BEEN FOR ALL MY COMP LIFE. Thank you for any help that is offered, NOOB.
The only thing Linux and Windows share is the fact that they run on electrical equipment. Be prepared to dedicate some serious time and energy to learning Linux. It's certainly worth it in the end, but it takes some discipline to stick with it if you're a windows power user.

Last edited by Tinkster; 05-03-2011 at 11:05 PM.
 
  


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