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Old 11-25-2005, 05:04 PM   #31
MRDucks
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Quote:
For the thread: All you have to do is buy yourself a second cable, connect both disk and run Mandrake bootloader coinfig program. It'll see the XP for himself.
Thank you!I asked that quite a few posts ago.Now a few questions.I have extra cables.I have 2 ide sockets on my mobo.My cd burner needs to be plugged into the #2 slot on my mobo.How should I set the hd's/burner as master/slave?The reason I'm asking is that it may reguire physically moving the drives around to get things to plug up correctly.Thanks
Quote:
you need to type
cat /boot/grub/menu.lst
and cut and paste the result
That command didnt work.But this did.Look what I did at the bottom.Does this mean I'll see a different screen at startup?
[root@24-151-235-197 ~]# which lilo
/sbin/lilo
[root@24-151-235-197 ~]# /sbin/lilo .lst
usage: lilo [ -C config_file ] -q [ -m map_file ] [ -v N | -v ... ]
lilo [ -C config_file ] [ -b boot_device ] [ -c ] [ -g | -l | -L ]
[ -F ] [ -i boot_loader ] [ -m map_file ] [ -d delay ]
[ -v N | -v ... ] [ -t ] [ -s save_file | -S save_file ]
[ -p ][ -P fix | -P ignore ] [ -r root_dir ] [ -w | -w+ ]
lilo [ -C config_file ] [ -m map_file ] -R [ word ... ]
lilo [ -C config_file ] -I name [ options ]
lilo [ -C config_file ] [ -s save_file ] -u | -U [ boot_device ]
lilo -A /dev/XXX [ N ] inquire/activate a partition
lilo -M /dev/XXX [ mbr | ext ] install master boot record
lilo -T help list additional options
lilo -X internal compile-time options
lilo -V [ -v ] version information

[root@24-151-235-197 ~]# lilo -c
Added linux *
Added linux-nonfb
Added failsafe
[root@24-151-235-197 ~]#

when I type /sbin/grub .lst The terminal goes to this :

GNU GRUB version 0.97-13mdk (640K lower / 3072K upper memory)

[ Minimal BASH-like line editing is supported. For
the first word, TAB lists possible command
completions. Anywhere else TAB lists the possible
completions of a device/filename. ]

grub>

I can find lilo and grub both using the gui file browsing tool.Both folders contain a .config file I can save as a text doc.and post If thats what we are looking for.
Thanks
 
Old 11-25-2005, 05:38 PM   #32
jadedbat
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Hard Drives

You could run both hard drives on one cable, Set one as Master and one as Slave (with jumpers). Set the burner as master on its own. Get into your bios and set it to boot from cd first, then hard drive. Come up with a linux boot disk for your distro and try and boot with that when you want to run linux. That might work.

Or

Personally I would start completely over. Back up files. Set up the hard drives Master, Slave. Wipe both of them, Install Windows on the Master and then Linux on the slave,.. Lilo or grub will handle the duel boot configuration. Be sure to install Linux after Windows,.. windows obviously wants to rule the boot.. Linux is kind and considers the other OS... of course. Giving you options of what OS you want to boot to, upon boot up. ie. Windows, Linux


That help?

ps. Think ahead when partitioning.

Last edited by jadedbat; 11-25-2005 at 05:42 PM.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 05:41 PM   #33
jadedbat
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oh ya,..

I generally have the Master at the end of the cable and the SLave in the middle.. usually works.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 07:04 PM   #34
saikee
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There are 3 issues here.

(1) Hardware confusion - Just set everything "cable select". The drive that connected to the end plug is alway the master and the disk if connected to the middle plug is automatically the slave. You can swap the master and slave by their plugging point and never have to touch the jumpers again.

(2) Newbie inexperience in Linux terms and simple navigation in Linux. The "fdisk -l" is a Linux command issued at the terminal mode. /boot/grub/menu.lst isn't a command. It is a text file called menu.lst stored inside the subdirectory /boot/grub. Linux always has a /boot subdirectory for storing the kernels. If you type "grub" at the terminal you get a Grub shell, with which you can do certain amount of rescue work.

(3) There is a problem of booting. There is a total confusion here as the guy himself has no idea what was the original canble connection after expereimenting different setup.

I think there are too many cooks here so I am prepared to let others to have a go. For my money I would

(a) Find a connection setting where XP can be booted and never touch the hardware again, as Grub can re-map the drive on-the-fly.

(b) If the Linux is unbootable then get hold of a Live CD, any one from Slax, Puppy, Mepis will do, to boot up the system. Do a fdisk -l and print a copy out as a record.

(c) Use the change root technique to hoop from the Live CD Linux into the Mandriva to alter Grub to boot both systems.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 07:14 PM   #35
MRDucks
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Quote:
Personally I would start completely over. Back up files. Set up the hard drives Master, Slave. Wipe both of them, Install Windows on the Master and then Linux on the slave,.. Lilo or grub will handle the duel boot configuration. Be sure to install Linux after Windows,.. windows obviously wants to rule the boot..
Thats not a problem with linux.I'll set it as slave.(my ide cables are marked) and re-install.My install is only 2 days old now.Not much to back up....just a bunch of cookies from linuxquestions.org and I'm getting pretty good at installing java and the other stuff that doesnt come with the free iso's.Think I could leave xp installed?My copy is over 4 yrs old.Usually some form of weird virus runs in before I can get to the ms site to update.

I'll try win/master,linux/slave and a linux boot floppy first.Never thought of that.

Thanks
 
Old 11-25-2005, 08:44 PM   #36
MRDucks
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Sorry saikee,I was typing while you were posting and didnt read your last post.
I have set both hd to cable select like you suggested.(I didnt know what cable select meant until I googled it).

Both os's(hd's) were installed seperately as a single hd system,hd set to master,plugged to master ide#1 of 2.Thats a moot point now as either switching the jumper to cs,handling(static),or
[root@24-151-235-197 ~]# lilo -c
Added linux *
Added linux-nonfb
Added failsafe
This little trick has rendered the linux hd unbootable.I dont care.So lets start over.

I have a box with a master hd with xp on it and a slave hd with ext3(I think) partitons #1(small) and #6(large) on it.
My mandriva 2006 install disk identified these as hdb1 and hdb6 (hdb meaning it is on a slave drive) and wants to format them to install the os.Think this is a good choice?

I know after it installs it will want to know where to put the bootloader.The default choice is the MBR is this a good choice?

Thanks alot.

Last edited by MRDucks; 11-25-2005 at 08:45 PM.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 10:37 PM   #37
MRDucks
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Quote:
Personally I would start completely over. Back up files. Set up the hard drives Master, Slave. Wipe both of them, Install Windows on the Master and then Linux on the slave,.. Lilo or grub will handle the duel boot configuration
Thats exactly the way it went.Now when I start my box lilo gives me 10 seconds to choose which os to start.
And both start perfectly.

I've already did the easyurpmi/update thing.Now its off to tackle java for the millionth time.

Thanks alot for all the help everybody.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 10:37 PM   #38
jadedbat
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I dig

I think its the way to go.

saikee is on the money though if you wanted to save the Linux install and progs you have, but since you dont,.. go for it,.. reinstall it.. and your right you will get a new boot loader.

Good luck, report back.



ps. This is just a side not, and only MY opinion go w/SUSE 9.3 or 10.0 a very easy install and my favorite distro,..have you tried it?
 
Old 11-25-2005, 10:40 PM   #39
jadedbat
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Hip Hip

HOORAY
 
Old 11-26-2005, 12:23 AM   #40
MRDucks
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Quote:
MY opinion go w/SUSE 9.3 or 10.0 a very easy install and my favorite distro,..have you tried it?
I just started linux about 3 months ago.I've tried about 10(live cd's inc.) different distros.
I think maybe I tried it and thought it was kinda plain like ubuntu.I've been using mand.2005le for about the last month.It started developing a lot of annoying quirks.Now I have 2006.I dont know if I like it or not yet.maybe i'll try suse again.
My first linux try was a debian net install.NOT a good choice for a linux newbie

Thanks saikee for trying to save my stuff.I should have made it clear there was nothing of much importance on that drive.I'll ask better questions next time.

Thanks again
 
Old 11-26-2005, 05:25 AM   #41
saikee
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MRDucks

The MBR refers to the first 512 bytes of the "1st" bootable disk because that is what the BIOS always reads on a power up.

You can put XP's boot loader, Linix Lilo or Grub there to do multi boot. Grub needs about 1/10 of the Xp's effort but performing 10 times better.

In your case and with 2 disks you should considering keeping every Linux you install. Why throw each one away? I keep mine and there are over 50 distros in my box. I partition the disk with 5Gb each and fill each one gradually. One Grub can boot all of them. So just proceed to have as many 5Gb empty partitions as you can create in your disk.

The laziest way to do this (laziest is the easiest!) is to install the first Linux to take over the MBR, Mandriva is an ideal case for you as it has Grub.

When Mandriva is up and running you can edit its /boot/grub/menu.lst and add

title System @ hdb7
root (hd1,6)
chainloader +1

title System @ hdb8
root (hd1,7)
chainloader +1

title System @ hdb9
root (hd1,8)
chainloader +1

and so on to include all your empty partitions, remeber Grub counts from 0 and so (hd1) to Grub is hdb in Linux and (hd1,7) =hdb8 etc, etc. You obvious save the file. You save your arxe also by dulpicating Mandriva's Grub in a floppy by typing

grub-install /dev/fd0

so that when the MBR is accidentally nuked you can still boot Mandriva back with the full set of menu by this floppy. I shouldn't have to tell you that you can use the above statement to duplicate Grub into MBR or its root partition hdb1 (hdb1 as an example) by changing fd0 to hda and hdb1 respectively, should I?

The hdb7, 8,9..... are your empty partitions

Therefore you can start installing any Linux into an empty partition, say hdb9. You do this by "commanding" the distro installer to install its "/" in hdb9. The swap will be automatically picked up by every distro. The most important bit for your multi-boot is to instruct every distro to place its boot loader in its root partition, so that it can answer the "chainloader +1" command in Mandriva's /boot/grub/menu.lst. You can choose either Lilo or Grub for other distros and it wouldn't matter Mandriva's Grub one bit.

If you use a hard disk larger than 137 Gb or have partition number exceeding 20 then have a read of #8 of this thread

------------

Lastly when a distro has been installed and operational there is no need to re-install it again. In most case you can move it between partitions, between hard disks and even between computers by altering the partition reference in its /boot/grub/menu.lst (/etc/lilo.conf for Lilo) and /etc/fstab.

When one Linux isn't working you boot to another, mount the distressed Linux partition, change root into it to put it right.

Stop messing around with the cables and installation and just sit back and enjoy what Linux can do for you.
 
Old 11-26-2005, 11:49 AM   #42
MRDucks
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Quote:
I shouldn't have to tell you that you can use the above statement to duplicate Grub into MBR or its root partition hdb1 (hdb1 as an example) by changing fd0 to hda and hdb1 respectively, should I?
No you shouldnt but thanks.

You just gave me multiple answers to questions I have been wanting to ask but didnt know exactly how.
Its been killing me trying distros,not sure if I want to keep them so I try another and just erase the entire disk because I didnt know how to make partitions.I would love to have some of the other distros I've tried back.I think I can do it now.I have 2-80gb hd's with never any more than 5gb used on either.

now a few more questions please:
1. what is a good partition tool I can d/l for floppy or cd or is the ones that are pkgd with the distros install disk adequate?
2.when installing mandrake I used lilo.was this a mistake?Will the commands you gave me work if I just substitute lilo in place of grub?
3.
Quote:
The most important bit for your multi-boot is to instruct every distro to place its boot loader in its root partition
Mandrivas root partition or the distro i"m installings root?

Quote:
Stop messing around with the cables and installation and just sit back and enjoy what Linux can do for you.
Yes I'm sick of working ON my box.I like to get to work WITH it occasionally.

Thanks a bunch.
 
Old 11-26-2005, 04:27 PM   #43
Emmanuel_uk
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Partitiion creations with qtparted for example)
or drakdisk in mandriva (part of the MCC mandy control center)
or mandriva move live distro

You can find qtparted in knoppix live distro for example
 
Old 11-26-2005, 06:08 PM   #44
saikee
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With the exception of the Red Hat family which uses sfdisk I found

cfdisk

to be the most logical and bomb-proof as a partitioning tool. One does not needs a fancy partitioning tool. It is an extremly dangerous operation and so something that is simple, easy to understand, shows you the mistake immediately when one happens and available nearly in every distro will have to be

cfdisk & fdisk.

You make the first logical partition and it will show up as hda5. You delete one logical partition in the middle of a chain then an empty space will be created in its position with the partitions behind the space having their partition numbers all shifted up by one. It should you that space created inside the logical partitions cannot be mixed with the space in the primaries. Every response is logical and makes sense to the user if he/she bother to read up the literature.

For those embarking to put a lot of distros in the disk do make your partition table simple by type a regular size of say 5000 Mb each time. This is because when the partition is accidentally trashed completely you can still re-build it with out suffering any loss of data.

A hard disk can accept only 4 primaries, with reserved names hda1 to hda4. One primary must be given up as the only extended partition permitted. Inside the extended partition, which has no storage itself, one can have up to 63 logical partitions in an IDE and 15 for a Sata. It would be a good idea to use the hda4 as the extended partition so that trailing empty space can be progressively used up without becoming dead spaces..

In the cfdisk program the extended partition is generated automatically when the first logical partition is created and disappears automatically when the last logical is deleted.

Boot loaders can boot each other and so one can have all of them inside the PC. So no mistake if you select Lilo to boot Mandrake. The choice is really which one should be placed in the MBR. Grub out-guns everyone because it is the only boot loader alive that can boot each system "manually", step by step by a floppy. It can of course boot unlimited number of systems either in the MBR (or in its root partition when booted to).

My suggested strategy is to use Mandriva's Grub to boot anther Grub, Lilo or NTldr. Therefore if you install a new distro you should tell the installer to place its boot loader inside its root partition. Mandriva's root partition should has a copy of the Grub that you put into the MBR.
 
Old 11-26-2005, 08:10 PM   #45
dhlw
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Hi Saikee,

As a newbie wrestling to install Ubuntu 5.10 Install CD to completion for dual-boot WinXP and Breezy Badger without success to-date I just spotted your mention about a hidden partition in factory default install by a PC vendor. That's exactly my case and wonder if this can be what's preventing me from ever reaching the end of completing the install. Details below:

Quote:
Originally posted by saikee
...

The above will work unless you have complication in the disk, like a hidden partition for backing XP or left behind by the PC vendor.
This is a docked HP Pavilion xz148 notebook purchased 2002, HP never updated the BIOS and BIOS offers no removable disk (Firewire or USB) boot options.

Currently internal disk #1 is IDE 30.0 GB
/dev/hda1 primary FAT16 hidden HP Factory Software recovery partition
/dev/hda2 primary ntfs WinXP HE SP2 root partition

External Firewire disk #2 is 160GB Seagate ST316002 3A (notebook has 4-pin Firewire port)
/dev/sda1 primary / ext3 Breezy root
/dev/sda5 logical sw swap Linux swap used Ubuntu guided partitioning!

I also added eight modules for sbp2/ieee1394 and USB to recompile initrd.img

So I seem to face two problems:

(problem #1) After twice destroying MBR on Windows C: drive I now type /dev/sda where to save GRUB boot loader during installtion. As root I alter and save last four entries in /boot/grub/menu.lst, changing root (hd1,0) to root (hd0,0) and then Windows root (hd0,1) to (hd1,1).
When Ubuntu Install CD ejects CD-ROM and I remove it for final installation reboot for first login to Ubuntu all that happens is notebook reboots Windows, no GRUB activity at all.


(problem #2) Subsequently running Ubuntu Live CD shows on the external Firewire Seagate disk at /media/ieee1394disk/boot/grub/menu.lst everything seems to be ready to go.
Do I have to mount this, re-install GRUB or what? Frankly, I'm hopelessly lost.

# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
/dev/sda1 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/sda5 none swap sw 0 0
/dev/hdc /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0
/dev/scd0 /media/cdrom1 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0
/dev/sdb /media/usb0 auto rw,user,noauto 0 0
/dev/hda2 /Windows ntfs defaults 0 0


ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo ls -l /media/ieee1394disk/boot
total 7392
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 239770 2005-10-10 13:16 abi-2.6.12-9-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 64135 2005-10-10 12:12 config-2.6.12-9-386
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2005-11-26 22:26 grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5017476 2005-11-25 16:20 initrd.img-2.6.12-9-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 94664 2005-06-30 15:49 memtest86+.bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 897159 2005-10-10 13:16 System.map-2.6.12-9-386
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1206555 2005-10-10 13:16 vmlinuz-2.6.12-9-386


My edited GRUB menu.lst, as explained above, now reads
...
## ## End Default Options ##

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.12-9-386
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.12-9-386 root=/dev/sda1 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-386
savedefault
boot

title Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.12-9-386 (recovery mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.12-9-386 root=/dev/sda1 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-386
boot

title Ubuntu, memtest86+
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/hda2
title Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
root (hd1,1)
savedefault
chainloader +1



Thanks for any help.
 
  


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