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Having trouble installing a piece of hardware? Want to know if that peripheral is compatible with Linux?

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Old 08-12-2009, 02:40 PM   #1
kevin63661
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Windows boot loop...


im running kubuntu 9.04 right now and it works fine but for some reason I can boot windows OS i don't have it on my hard drive but i got the hard drive from my other computer and stuck it in the one with kubuntu and it just keeps doing a boot loop and so i got my old hard drive that has windows 98 on it and it does the same thing. people said its caused by bad ram but im pretty sure its not for me. Anyone have any ideas??
 
Old 08-12-2009, 03:26 PM   #2
thorkelljarl
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Punctuation...

There are good reasons why the English language in its written form uses capital letters to start a sentence and a period to end one; to wit: clarity, comprehensibility, simplicity.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 03:27 PM   #3
pljvaldez
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Can you clarify a bit? You mean you can't boot Windows? Or that you boot into Windows and it just reboots? Or when the other drive is plugged in, you can't boot Kubuntu. Sorry, but I'm a bit confused by what your problem is.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 03:48 PM   #4
thorkelljarl
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A solution as to what boots...

Check the the boot order setting in your BIOS to see if you can choose which HDD will boot first. You might get your system to boot linux and as root in a terminal use the command "fdisk -l" to identify the HDDs and partitions.

If you cannot specify the boot order of the HDDs, install the connections of the HDD such that the HDD you wish to boot first is Master on the first controller of your motherboard, and any other HDD is Slave or set as Master on the second controller.

You were not clear as to what you want to do with the second HDD with Windows. Do you want to dual boot using separate HDDs?

Read this.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/...Ask_a_Question

Last edited by thorkelljarl; 08-12-2009 at 04:52 PM.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 03:49 PM   #5
David the H.
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What thorkelljarl said. This isn't twitter here. This is a technical forum and clarity is very important.

I don't think you can just rip a Windows hard drive out of one computer and place it in another and expect it to work. The software is not configured to handle the differences in hardware. At the very least the drive order is probably different. And Windows is usually much less tolerant about such things than most Linux distros. You probably need to do a new install.

There's a ton of information about setting up dual-boot systems on the net. Google it.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 04:30 PM   #6
mushroomboy
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depends on the hardware, but you can rip one hdd out of a computer and slap it in another most of the time, most of windows drivers are included in the install, thus why a windows install is bulky. Windows 7 is over 3G (idk something like 7+?). Though as for this post, the punctuation is so bad I agree with the above people, clarify!!!

And windows is a lot more tolerant than linux as far as drive order.... Well... It used to be. I used to have to make sure that all my SATA drives were on the proper ports, if I switched them grub wouldn't boot, despite what my bios has for settings. But if I swap any of the discs around and boot windows it doesn't matter what drive is first, if my ATA drives are plugged in, if one SATA drive is plugged in....

Though in the end you shouldn't stick a windows hdd in any random computer, it will not perform up to par. Though it is possible, hence the Win XP disc that runs off DVD/CD only. Really a base install of Vista/Win 7 is made to work on any system. All the installer does is copy a base system, kind of like a OS backup, onto the HDD and then you reboot into a "setup" that just auto sets your settings. If you take that same hdd and put it in another sytem it'll boot, just takes a while because it has to re-configure everything. XP wasn't as good with that type of scenario, but you could make an XP system that could boot off any computer. It's also possible to make an external HDD with Windows so you can boot from anywhere with your external drive as the windows drive, I'm betting the same can be done for linux.


[edit]
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/For...9-296334968fd2

mentions win 7 on an esata, i'm pretty sure you could do it.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Boot_Cam...External_Drive

Really base drivers are always on windows, well they should be, and should always boot.

Last edited by mushroomboy; 08-12-2009 at 04:45 PM.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 05:21 PM   #7
Erik_FL
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Windows NT based operating systems (NT 4.0, 2000, XP, Vista, Windows 7) often do not boot when you move them to a different computer. Windows Setup only installs the driver for the boot device and other detected devices are installed by plug and play. If you move a hard disk to some other computer then the driver for the disk controller might not be installed.

You have a better chance moving a hard disk from an Intel IDE chip set to another Intel IDE chip set but even that is no guarantee. Assuming that the Windows OS boots you will still have to activate Windows XP and later Windows versions in order to log on.

In some cases the BIOS CHS to LBA address translation is different and the boot sectors can't load the boot loader.

Windows 98 and ME were a little more tolerant of moving hard disks between computers but even they sometimes did not boot on new hardware.

You can reinstall Windows on top of the existing Windows system and that will keep most of your installed programs and settings. Go through the steps as if you are installing Windows using the Setup CD and then it will tell you that there is an existing Windows OS detected. At that point you have the option to repair the existing Windows. Choose repair to keep your existing settings and programs. You will still have to enter a CD key and Activate Windows.

Windows XP does not have drivers for many newer SATA controller chips. You may have to slipstream drivers or use a floppy disk to load an OEM mass storage driver in order to install or repair Windows XP.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 06:26 PM   #8
mushroomboy
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Most of the time I have been able to get XP to boot into safe mode, and yes you can have problems. But most of the overhead and bulk in windows is drivers, though back in XP it wasn't so much the case.

I would like to correct something though, as I stated earlier Vista/7 doesn't install as a normal install, it's more like a disc image.

http://blogs.technet.com/askcore/arc...-so-large.aspx

http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...ployments.html

It's basically a system put in a compressed archive, then uncompressed and all the new Win installer does is configure desktop settings, set up links, ect.... Really as of Vista you can move the hdd anywhere, as it's a flat install. Basically when they updated WAIK it now uses .wim, you have two .wim files on Vista/7, install.wim boot.wim... If you had been in testing during the original Vista Beta's you would have probably learned some of the modifying/hacking we were doing to the install discs. Pretty much instead of an installer running off the cd and copying the files you need the boot.wim is extracted to a ram disk then all that does is decompress install.wim to your hdd. And the true reality of all that is, we can now install windows without a CD, all you need is an iso. I'll be honest, I haven't had a working copy of my Vista for years, the disc got lent too many times and one day never came back. Now all I have is Win 7 Beta as an iso somewhere and a linux net boot.

Last edited by mushroomboy; 08-12-2009 at 06:29 PM.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 07:32 PM   #9
Erik_FL
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All that Setup magic happens BEFORE you have an installed, working copy of Windows. After installation your copy of Windows has only the drivers that are used by your hardware. Since Windows can't install more drivers until after it has booted, your Windows OS won't boot if the boot device driver hasn't been installed and configured before you boot Windows. It doesn't matter if the drivers are sitting in an archive in the WINDOWS folder because the OS hasn't yet booted and can't install them.

The Windows Setup program is designed to boot on nearly anything, but after installing Windows, Windows is NOT designed boot on other hardware. That's why people create boot discs using the Pre-installation Environment and not the standard Windows OS.

There was nothing done to make Vista or Windows 7 able to move to other hardware more easily than Windows XP or Windows 2000. The only things that I've ever mostly been able to move between hardware were Windows NT 4.0 or Windows 98/ME.

If you want an OS that will mostly boot when moved between hardware, Linux is your best bet. You still might have to change the information in the boot menu for the correct hard disk device name and root partition.

Linux CAN load drivers before it finishes booting. It uses an "initrd" RAM disk image to load drivers during booting. That only helps if the "initrd" has drivers for the boot device or the boot device is built into the kernel. Windows has no such capability and in essence the Setup is done by a completely different OS than the one being installed. How Windows Setup finds drivers for booting is completely different than how the installed Windows OS finds drivers for booting. After it is installed, the Windows boot process only starts drivers that have ALREADY been configured in the registry.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:13 PM   #10
mushroomboy
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http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kba...rcomputer.html

A lot of the time if you don't install specific drivers for the IDE/SATA controllers it uses generic drivers, which works anywhere. Every machine I have used Vista with doesn't usually have vender specific drivers installed, why? What's the point, most people don't install Windows then search for vender specific drivers unless a problem occurs, how many people out there do you think have drivers for that vender? It's probably running generic drivers for that system. Infact, out of the majority of average home users, how many people probably even know what the SATA controller does? With all the various different venders out there MS's generic driver works most of the time. Heck, I've even had MBs that didn't have drivers for any of that, Epox for example is dead, anyone running an epox board can't even get vender drivers. Trust me I suffer. =( Ask people who work hardware shops, how many people even know how to install drivers, run virus scanners properly, even use msconfig? Not many, and I'm betting all of them don't even have vender drivers. The goal of MS's drivers is beauty, works on everything without vender support.

[edit] thank god for the day and age of plug and play, where everything should "run"
Attached Images
File Type: jpg standard drivers.jpg (223.4 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by mushroomboy; 08-12-2009 at 08:25 PM.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 10:52 PM   #11
Erik_FL
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Compatibility is only getting worse. Although you can sometimes get away with using the wrong driver it's more likely that you'll have to reinstall Windows. Anything in Windows that makes it possible to move between computers is purely accidental and more a matter of luck than design. Microsoft clearly does not care about moving Windows between computers after it has been installed. In fact the EULA does not permit that except for retail versions.

Expecting Microsoft to do anything to helpful for migrating Windows to different hardware is just wishful thinking.
 
  


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