Hello;

I personally have ruined two USB 2.0 Flash drives putting Linux on them. They do not handle running like a disc drive. Then there is talk about S.L.O.W.

Sluggish
Low on storage
Overwhelming
Waste of a device

I made a bootable DVD of the Distro I use most and have it mount the Stick as the “/home” directory. I still do not like that.

I thought I was doing something great and was very dissatisfied with my result. Boot time was terrible and the sticks lasted only about 8 months. If you have the monies to throw away 64Gig memory sicks every eight months go for it. I know Kingston likes me. I bought two more sticks.

Hmmm, i suspect that the 'dead' usb sticks could probably be revived by reformatting them.

Also, perhaps try using a smaller, more rugged usb stick for the os part? Have you tried setting the Mount Point of the log-file folders to sit on the hard-drive to reduce the amount for read/writes to the usb sticks?


A proper hard-drive install as a dual-boot to avoid losing existing operating systems (such as an existing working Windows) is obviously a lot better for most purposes
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
Sorry that's ubuntu again but they all work very much the same. Also it assumes Windows is the existing OS but again that could be something else quite easily. Ubuntu will need 15Gb of hard-drive to feel comfortable but most other versions of linux take up a lot less space.

Then ideally use the usb, as a data storage device.

I'm curious how well Windows looks after a usb stick if the main part of a Windows OS is installed to Usb. Typically i would expect Windows to store the boot-loader to the Usb stick but have the actual OS & "Documents&Settings" on the hard-drive, with the Usb stick an optional storage space for data (but not the default space), as people have suggested doing for linux in this thread. The implication from the TheUnixGuy's post is that "linux killed the usb but Windows would still have worked for years and years" which i think is blatantly untrue/untested. Or perhaps installing Unix on a usb has worked better for him in the past?? Getting Windows to exclusively use the usb-stick as it's "Documents & Settings" folder is also a non-starter, even if you do manage to hack the Windows Registry to accept it. Even most Windows registry experts avoid touching the registry whenever possible.

Note that even the most bloated distro only needs 15Gb of drive-space and that includes space for storing plenty of Office documents. Bloated = fully featured of course.

TheUnixGuy would seem to be a Windows fanboy spreading MicroSquish FUD as his experience is far from typical. It is of course always important to back-up (create a spare copy) of any data on any system. Also it might take a little care and involve learning (perhaps through trial & error) about how to setup a good system this way. Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch where someone returns a tortoise to the pet shop because dragging it backwards several times along the table doesn't make it go "voom"?

Anyway, good luck and regards from
Tom

I know this is breaking forum rules but in this case I really do not care.

TheUnixGuy would seem to be a Windows fanboy spreading MicroSquish FUD as his experience is far from typical. It is of course always important to back-up (create a spare copy) of any data on any system. Also it might take a little care and involve learning (perhaps through trial & error) about how to setup a good system this way. Does anyone remember the Monty Python sketch where someone returns a tortoise to the pet shop because dragging it backwards several times along the table doesn't make it go "voom"?

The comment above is why I find public forums difficult to post in. Ignorant people who call others names such as “Windows Fanboy” and spreading what ever :”MicroSquish FUD” is I have no clue. I am from the old school. When a poster must build him/her self up by putting down others is one of the best indicators of both morality and character. Tom(Boy)6 obviously has not read any of my posts here, else where, or looked at my profile. Another good indicator of ignorance.

I have been in the computer industry for over 35 years now. Probably longer than Tom(Boy)6 has been on the planet. The computers I first worked on where Data General Nova series and DEC-10's by Digital Equipment Corporation. I graduated onto PDP-8 and PDP-11 series computers. Most of my languages were Pascal, Cobol, Assembly, Fortran, and Microcode. Long before C & C++. Being in my late 50's I was hoping to share some of my experiences. Sometimes I honestly do not know if I really want to anymore.

In case anyone wishes to know. I did the development on one memory stick. I started to get errors after a few months of playing with it. I started to get errors. I thought I had a great idea going, and just had a defective memory stick. So I tried again with another memory stick.. I went beyond the recommended 100,000 reads and writes to the memory stick stated by the manufacture. I thought I could sell preloaded memory sticks with a Knoppix like environment with one extra. A Swap space for older computers with less than 256Meg of memory. Hey I failed.

My post was to inform MBA_Whore of my findings, nothing more nothing less. I failed at my task which involved trial and error. How anyone can assume that is not trial and error is beyond me. They must have thought I got it right the first time. Go figure.

When I called Kingston they did not recommended what I was trying to do as a great idea. ( Yes I called the manufacture. )I was advised that Iomega has a 80Gig USB drive. You can now get a 350Gig USB drive that is not much larger than two sticks is available for under $75.00. ( Fry's has it this week for $59.00 and change. ), Or find battery backed up memory. Basically I was told Flash is not meant for this type of abuse.

My idea of a forum is: A place where anyone can come for advice, help, or solutions. Not a place to bash other contributors. No questions were asked on how it was done or what tools were needed. No questions were asked what happened to the memory sticks as to why they failed or what I found out. I see this happen in too many forums. I find it sad.

I will never slam someone for a post no matter how far in left field it may be. Even if it is meant to help me. I will always thank the person for their input. That is what forums are all about. Not being Boys or Girls, but being Adult Men and Women, and replying in an adult manner.

I hope I never see anything like this in this forum again.

Let's please all calm down everyone.

UnixGuy, I think your mistake was putting swap on the flash drive. I can see how that would wear it out quickly.

SnowPine;

I know why the USB stick failed. I stated it in my response. I went far, far beyond the limits of the stick. I did not do my homework. I thought of the stick as a regular disc drive. That was my error. In all honesty I screwed up.

I was not angry when writing the above response. Something as trivial as this does not get my nickers in a twist. What caused me to write the response the way I did was reading crap like the following.

The implication from the TheUnixGuy's post is that "Linux killed the usb but Windows would still have worked for years and years" which i think is blatantly untrue/untested. Or perhaps installing Unix on a usb has worked better for him in the past??

You see Tom(Boy) put words in my mouth that were never said. Never once did I mention Windows. I am not a windows fan in any way. I use Open Office, GNU G++, Gauge Talker, Skype for Linux, Myth_TV, and when I need Windows, I revert to Wine. BTW I am not a gamer in any way, shape, for form.

I do not like the idea of having to buy anti-virus software, paying for updates on development software, and the Blue Screen of Death that basically tells you almost nothing. Let alone Microsoft's Registry! That is a nightmare in itself.

SnowPine, Linux did not ruin the memory stick. I did.

I tried to reformat the stick and where I did most of my scratch pad work is where the stick failed. Memory sicks are made for storing and moving data, not as solid state drives. That is why they make solid state drives.

Re-read what I wrote and tell me where I implied that Windows would have worked for years and years. To get that out of my post you would have to be smoking some really heavy stuff. I know, I grew up in the 60's ! ! ! ! Got the draft card and everything!

Take care
TheUnixGuy

To a neutral corner...

I don't know whether to think that you shouldn't really be fighting over something like this or to think that you're nonetheless fighting with some respect for the rules. May I now ring the bell?

Then howcome you're posting from Windows right now (according to the little icon to the left of your posts)?

0 members found this post helpful.

Maybe because I am not at MY OFFICE!

This is exactly what I am talking about.

Stick the knife in and twist it because I am using someone else's computer.

Look at the IP Address I used on each post and they are not all the same. Some are over 100 miles apart.

Next person to take a dig. . . . I am waiting. Humor me. I love it when immaturity comes out.

Edit: This is my last post on this thread

OK, just curious.

Hi

Hey i am sorry about causing all the fuss there. I was wrong to insult TheUnixGuy and very much regret that.

I worked in the Windows world for far too long and when i switched (gradually via dual-boot & LiveCd) over to linux i became angry about the hours & hours of wasted time on such things as disk-defrags, anti-virus scans and endless inconvenient updates that don't update programs or drivers essential to keeping a machine working decently. If i had been much less of a coward even just 5 years ago and given linux "a fair go" then i would have saved myself a lot of money, time and grief, perhaps even done better at work as i seem to have learned a lot about Windows that was a mystery before.

Anyway, there's no excuse for letting hostility and resentment bubble up to the surface and no good excuse for personal attacks, especially when so badly mis-placed.

Please lets just move on from this mistake & stop giving each other a tough time.

Many apologies, especially to TheUnixGuy but also to anyone reading this thread.
Good luck all and have fun!
Regards from
Tom

1 members found this post helpful.

I will just avoid putting them on USB. Instead, I will just work with external hdds.

Thanks!

Hi

External hard-drives (especially if they are not SSDs) neatly side-step almost all the issues

I still think that going for the simplest answer, although slightly inadequate, of using Ubuntu's LiveUsb to start with might be a good way to ease yourself into a faster and greater understanding of the issues.

Exploring TinyCore at the same time would help get to grips with the whole idea of putting different parts of the OS on different drives. Robert Shingledecker's concern about security is more to do with "system rot", usually thought of as wear & tear on the OS.

Keeping the bulk of the OS (Tiny Core in this case) on a LiveCd, rather than a hard-drive, prevents much of the usual damage that occurs to any OS over the years. But it runs into similar problem discussed here, namely that Swap and log-files work much better on a hard-drive but may need wiping at shut-down.

In Tiny Core's case the stated reason was that hard-drives are very much faster at read/writes and anyway the ethos of TinyCore is that the main bulk of the OS shouldn't be able to be written to anyway. Hence the preference for being run off a LiveCd. Although security is often talked about in linux circles people are seldom referring to malware. Windows is so swamped by malware that they don't have time to consider other security issues much. This is partly why linux is far more popular as a server and/or hand-helds OS, because it provides a much more stable environment.
http://www.top500.org/stats/list/34/osfam
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
http://librenix.com/?inode=21

I thought i would include this guide about Swap
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq
but i disagree entirely with it's suggestion about using a file rather than a partition for swap. Windows uses a file, "pagefile.sys", which is one of the main contributors to the classic Windows slow-down experienced after just a couple of months running Windows. The main reason pagefile.sys causes problems in Windows is because Windows suffers from fragmentation whereas linux doesn't. But still, why go the Windows route with something when that route has been shown to fail? A separate partition for swap works well and is a tried and much used approach.


So, Ubuntu provides an easy system to work with fast and one that's easier to get hints & tips about. TinyCore would be good to experiment with until you are ready to fully implement a linux system that fulfils all your requirements.

However, as you have already seen there are many different ideas about what would be best and we all enjoy arguing endlessly about it all. There is also a high chance that there is something perfect (given the diversity in linux-land) that we have all missed. Ultimately there is only 1 right way to proceed and that's your own

Good luck and regards from
Tom

Tom6, et al:

How "newbie friendly" is TinyCore? I'm pretty dumb here.....LOL.

If you really want it on a USB storage device then I recommend you use a 2.5" USB Hard Drive. you can in thory install Linux on a Flash drive but there are inherent problems that come with that.

The first is Encryption. If you really need encryption then I suggest doing a software based encryption like Truecrypt.

The second is going to be the life of the drive. A Flash drive will wear out really fast if you are running an OS from it because of the read/write I/O that and OS performs during normal operation. This is why I recommend a USB 2.5" External Hard Drive. a 2.5" External hard drive is just a laptop hard drive in a USB enclosure. The drive is much more robust and can handle the normal I/O operations of an OS.

The third problem is going to be speed. USB 1.1 and 2.0 are both slow mediums to run an OS off of. For the most part is ok if all you need to do is Rescue another system. Other than rescuing a system or having a portable distribution to use at school I would not recommend using it.

Hi

Yeh, good question. I don't think TinyCore is particularly noob-friendly at all, despite claims.

However, all linux distros work very much the same so what you learn in Ubuntu transfers easily to TinyCore. It is essentially because TinyCore is a little obscure (i mean how many people want a system to run purely off Usb/Cd lol) that i recommend using Ubuntu with no extra encryption to start with.

Generally with linux there is 1 stable system that you use all the time and 1 "development version". So Ubuntu is probably good enough for now asap, without encryption, purely because Windows can't read linux stuff without significant help. MicroSquish do this in a strangely effective attempt to gain market-share = MicroSquish say "Use ours because it can only cope with limited formats. Their's lets you read anything you want so avoid it". It will take people a little while before they really realise you are using a Usb OS at all anyway. By the time they might start reacting to all that you will probably be sufficiently well-versed in Ubuntu and have experimented with TinyCore enough that you can "slap on" encryption fairly easily.

If DSL is anything to go by then i imagine the TinyCore forums are a happy friendly place with people eager to help. Even tho the split with DSL was less than amicable i think that is unlikely to have changed the attitudes of the fans to newcomers. TinyCore is fairly revolutionary in aiming to avoid hard-drive installs but can usefully use tiny portions of hard-drive to mitigate against the inherent slowness of LiveCd/Usb and to deal with the read/write issues. From DistroWatch's Reader's Comments back when TinyCore got reviewed there i gathered that TinyCore manages to be extremely fast.

The official TinyCore website is
http://www.tinycorelinux.com/
but i always navigate to these things from the DistroWatch site and use DistroWatch to check if there is something similar worth trying too
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=tinycore

Any linux distro is arguably all about the user forums / technical support so try asking around in there and see what responses are like before getting too committed to the 1 distro
http://tinycorelinux.com/forum/
again i got that link from DistroWatch

There are other places that ostensibly aim to do the same job as DistroWatch but i tend to find that although they often look a lot nicer they only have a tiny subset of the data that DW has and often what they do have is very out-of-date compared to DW. Unusually i was able to spot an error on DW's TinyCOre page, as TinyCore is not aimed at old machines. I might email Shingledecker and Ladislav or Chris Smart to see what's going on although they might be busy lol

Good luck and regards from
Tom