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WiseDraco 01-19-2013 10:48 AM

videocard with low power consumption for server
 
Hello!
I preparing to swap my old home - server ( runs under slack, act as web \ mail \ ftp \ etc server for my own and family needs, hardware is Dell Optiplex 150 - pentium 3 - 800 mhz / 512 ram, onboard intel video) with newer one - i bought for that Asus P5B motherboard with core2due e4400 procesor ( P965 chipset). but this motherboard do not have integrated videocard, it have a 3 pci slots, one pci-express, and come with MSI r4350 (ATI chipset) based 512 mb video. as i research over net, it is very good energy efficient modern videocard - with approx 17 watts consumption under load. Also it have a relatively large radiator, without fan ( passive cooling), and in slackware 14 installation process videocard radiator becomes hor ( approx 55 - 59 degree of celsius, without any heavy graphic - in text mode only!), and that i do not like - it means a build up hot in case, and also sign a consume lot of power. I also find in my garbage a old PCI videocard like as S3 trio 64, S3 Virge, and Trident TGUI9440-3 - it has really old, from Pentium I times.
I think, it has consume a lot less energy, than any modern videocard ( and in server i actually not need powerful video - in another hand - it runs 24 \ 7 \ 365, as so every consumed watt significantly change bills for electricity in year ).
Only question - all old pci - videocards is fully compatible with never PCI standart ( PCI 2.2 ?) in modern motherboard? maybe any try of use old pci video in modern motherboard?

serafean 01-19-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Only question - all old pci - videocards is fully compatible with never PCI standart ( PCI 2.2 ?) in modern motherboard? maybe any try of use old pci video in modern motherboard?
Yes, PCI is backward compatible.

As for the power consumption, I'm assuming you're using the opensource radeon driver, then by default the card is in its highest power state. OSS radeon power management is profile based, and requires manual intervention :
Code:

echo low > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_profile
This has to be run at every start up, so adding it into an init script might be a good idea. Try that before going PCI :)

Serafean

whizje 01-19-2013 04:53 PM

If it is a really old card it could lower the pci bus frequency that's not so bad if there are no other devices that are influenced. I suggest you don't use a video card and manage your server remote over the network with ssh or if you prefer xdmcp or vnc.

cascade9 01-20-2013 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4873545)
in slackware 14 installation process videocard radiator becomes hor ( approx 55 - 59 degree of celsius, without any heavy graphic - in text mode only!), and that i do not like - it means a build up hot in case, and also sign a consume lot of power.

'Heatsink' not 'radiator'. Just because the heatsink is hot doesnt mean that you are consuming a lot of power (and vice versa).

The old 4350 should be using somewhere around 5-7 watts or less at idle (provided that you are using the right drivers and/or driver setup). That is very low power consumption. It would be possible to install a newer card (e.g. AMD 6450/7450) with slighly lower power consumption, but it wouldnt be worth it IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4873545)
I also find in my garbage a old PCI videocard like as S3 trio 64, S3 Virge, and Trident TGUI9440-3 - it has really old, from Pentium I times.

I would not assume that just becausde they are older, those video cards they will have lower power consumption. IIRC the S3 virges used about 5 watts at idle.

If you did change over to some ancient PCI video card you will probably have limited resolution and bitdepth as well, due to limited RAM on the old video cards. If you really want to run at 1024x768 @ 256bit colour on the chance that some video card from the dawn of time will use less power, go ahead. But IMO whizje is right, just manage your server over a network and use it headless.

WiseDraco 01-20-2013 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascade9 (Post 4873891)
'Heatsink' not 'radiator'. Just because the heatsink is hot doesnt mean that you are consuming a lot of power (and vice versa).

very interesting idea. then from where come power for get heatsink hot? Heatsinks and radiators is used for dissipate excess power, consumed by device. If higher is device performance index, then less is percentage of consumed energy, to go to heat. In one tech-process and technology level chips, i think, performance index is very similar, as so large heatsink temperature may work good for evaluation of devices power consumption. Sorry for my bad english, my latvian and russian is far better ;)

Quote:

The old 4350 should be using somewhere around 5-7 watts or less at idle (provided that you are using the right drivers and/or driver setup). That is very low power consumption. It would be possible to install a newer card (e.g. AMD 6450/7450) with slighly lower power consumption, but it wouldnt be worth it IMO.



I would not assume that just becausde they are older, those video cards they will have lower power consumption. IIRC the S3 virges used about 5 watts at idle.
S3 virge have a relatively small videochip without radiators \ heatsinks \ coolers etc, and when work, it not very hot. 4350, as you say, too eat 5-7 watts, but have a large heatsink who become hot. As conclusion, old virge is very more energy efficient card? :D or you do not understand, who you say...;)

Quote:

If you did change over to some ancient PCI video card you will probably have limited resolution and bitdepth as well, due to limited RAM on the old video cards. If you really want to run at 1024x768 @ 256bit colour on the chance that some video card from the dawn of time will use less power, go ahead. But IMO whizje is right, just manage your server over a network and use it headless.
it is linux slackware server. it always work in textmode, not in 1024 [ 768, and even not 800x600, as so i cannot understand, about who you speak. Maybe you is "GUI" era children, who cannot imagine work on CLI? :)

2whizje: yes, it is possible way, but i dont want run server without videocard at all. Sometimes has situations, when need or it be more comfortable work direct with server, without ssh / telnet / etc. as so i want a videocard for my new server :)

Serafean: i dont think a slackware kernel at install stage automatically load right driver for radeon card, i think is more piossible, it works with universal fbdev devise or so on, but i check for this and try your command, when bought case, hdd, and get cooler for processor, who now is in messuage.
I have a etech PM300 watt-meter, and then i try to measure computer consumption with variuous PSU, various videocards, and 1 - 3 hdd drives, for get a valuable info about power consumptions. setup who i use now ( dell optiplex GX150 with Pentium III - 866 MHz, 512 mb ram, two additional pci NIC, and two HDD) is in range of 48 - 52 watts according PM300 meter.it do approx 36 kWh in month, as so i want server with no more than 70 - 75 watts consumption, better if less...;)

cascade9 01-23-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4873930)
very interesting idea. then from where come power for get heatsink hot? Heatsinks and radiators is used for dissipate excess power, consumed by device. If higher is device performance index, then less is percentage of consumed energy, to go to heat. In one tech-process and technology level chips, i think, performance index is very similar, as so large heatsink temperature may work good for evaluation of devices power consumption. Sorry for my bad english, my latvian and russian is far better ;)

S3 virge have a relatively small videochip without radiators \ heatsinks \ coolers etc, and when work, it not very hot. 4350, as you say, too eat 5-7 watts, but have a large heatsink who become hot. As conclusion, old virge is very more energy efficient card? :D or you do not understand, who you say...;)

Have you even tried instaling the closed drivers, or what serafean linked you too?

If you havent got power managment going, your card _will_ be consuming more power and producing more heat than it would otherwise.

S3 virges can get hot.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4873930)
it is linux slackware server. it always work in textmode, not in 1024 [ 768, and even not 800x600, as so i cannot understand, about who you speak. Maybe you is "GUI" era children, who cannot imagine work on CLI? :)

:rolleyes:

WiseDraco 02-03-2013 09:52 AM

today i got a 109X9212PT0H536 heatsink for s775, and found over net, it is a P4 heatsink :-O
actually, it has smaller contact place diameter, than other my intel boxed heatsink, but it smaller power consumption too - 0.28A vs 0.6A ( writed on cooler), as so i try use that first one, and place my eye on CPU temperature.

today i test some videocards - two PCI-express, and three old PCI.
measurement device is ETECH PM300 energy meter.
voltage is around 215V, Amperage vary - measure it and write down.

hardware is sweex 350w PSU, asus p5b mother,intel core 2 duo e4400 processor with intel box 109X9212PT0H536 cooler, 4 x 1 Gb RAM, 7200 rpm SATA II WD 80 Gb and Samsung 250 Gb, two additional ethernet cards - realtek 8139d and 3com 3c905cx-tx-b

PCI- Express video:

MSI r4350 (ATI chipset) based 512 mb video with passive heatsink: 0.56A at LiLo prompt
0.48A at login prompt
and 0.46A after echo low > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_profile

Nvidia EN9400GT 512 Mb with active cooling: 0.48A at login prompt

PCI videocards:

Trident TGUI9440-3, 512 kb RAM? : 0.49A at LiLo prompt, 0.40A at login prompt

S3Virge 86c325 - no picture, possible a damaged videocard ?

S3Trio 64v2/DX 1 Mb RAM, 86c775: 0.48A at LiLo, 0.40A at login

TSeng ET4000, w32p-pci-d2-1m : 0.49A at Lilo, 0.41A at login.


looks like, old PCI card consume a ( 215 x.40 = 86w vs 215x0.46 = 98.9w) ~12 watts less than my radeon even in low consumption mode. i think, it is a quite large amount. try to get more old PCI cards and test too.

TobiSGD 02-03-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4883609)
today i got a 109X9212PT0H536 heatsink for s775, and found over net, it is a P4 heatsink :-O
actually, it has smaller contact place diameter, than other my intel boxed heatsink, but it smaller power consumption too - 0.28A vs 0.6A ( writed on cooler), as so i try use that first one, and place my eye on CPU temperature.

today i test some videocards - two PCI-express, and three old PCI.
measurement device is ETECH PM300 energy meter.
voltage is around 215V, Amperage vary - measure it and write down.

hardware is sweex 350w PSU, asus p5b mother,intel core 2 duo e4400 processor with intel box 109X9212PT0H536 cooler, 4 x 1 Gb RAM, 7200 rpm SATA II WD 80 Gb and Samsung 250 Gb, two additional ethernet cards - realtek 8139d and 3com 3c905cx-tx-b

PCI- Express video:

MSI r4350 (ATI chipset) based 512 mb video with passive heatsink: 0.56A at LiLo prompt
0.48A at login prompt
and 0.46A after echo low > /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_profile

Nvidia EN9400GT 512 Mb with active cooling: 0.48A at login prompt

PCI videocards:

Trident TGUI9440-3, 512 kb RAM? : 0.49A at LiLo prompt, 0.40A at login prompt

S3Virge 86c325 - no picture, possible a damaged videocard ?

S3Trio 64v2/DX 1 Mb RAM, 86c775: 0.48A at LiLo, 0.40A at login

TSeng ET4000, w32p-pci-d2-1m : 0.49A at Lilo, 0.41A at login.


looks like, old PCI card consume a ( 215 x.40 = 86w vs 215x0.46 = 98.9w) ~12 watts less than my radeon even in low consumption mode. i think, it is a quite large amount. try to get more old PCI cards and test too.

Do you use the proprietary or the open source driver for the AMD card? If it is the open source one, did you manually enable the low power profile or did you use the default (high power) setting?

WiseDraco 02-04-2013 01:35 AM

MSI r4350 (ATI chipset) based 512 mb video with passive heatsink: 0.56A at LiLo prompt
0.48A at login prompt
and

0.46A after echo low> /sys/class/drm/card0/device/power_profile

system give "radeon" driver ( module) for them out of the box. as i understand, that fact, as system power consumption drop 0.02A and card temperature too drops ( via sensors command) after echo low > command, i think, driver is ok, and switch card to low consumption mode.

TobiSGD 02-04-2013 05:26 AM

I asked just because I was a bit confused by your findings. According to AMD this card has a maximum power consumption under full load of 20W. Idle consumption should be far lower (I would estimate around 5-8W), so a drop of 12W when using a different card seems a bit high to me considering this data.

But anyways, since you aim at minimum power consumption, do you have more data on the PSU? I couldn't find something (besides some pictures) on the web. Is this PSU 80+ certified?

WiseDraco 02-04-2013 05:45 AM

http://www.sweex.com/en/assortiment/...upplies/ps020/

looks like that, but exactly i can write in evening, when i arrive to home.

previously this PSU serves my home desktop computer ( intel dg965ss mb and e4500 c2d 2.2 ghz cpu, and some another stuff), and then i purchase a 450 or 500 watt chieftec A80+ PSU ( also can write exactly in evening).
when i swap that PSU, i too try to view to consumption via powermeter, and be a surprise - this A80 psu consume a more power - around a 95 - 100 watt versus 78w or something like.


i think, it is because a powerful PSU on small demand cannot maintain good efficiency - like a large diesel truck with no trailer consumes lot of fuel to move herself ( a few tonns ), but when it pull trailer, then fuel consumption to move 1 tonn goods is very good - a lot better than light \ passenger vehicles...

Yes, "smaller" PSU is Sweex BA000040 350w, and larger one is Chieftec CTG-500-80P, 500w.

today try another 4 pci cards (ATI-264VT2 (mach64), ATI 3D Rage2-DVD with 2 Mb FP EDO, ATI 264vt with 512 kb and 1 Mb videoram - results after boot, at login screen again be 0.41 - 0.42 A ( 0.42 is 3D Rage 2).

about "According to AMD this card has a maximum power consumption under full load of 20W. Idle consumption should be far lower (I would estimate around 5-8W), so a drop of 12W when using a different card seems a bit high to me considering this data. "

i dont know, who amd says , but even in "low consumption" mode cards big heatsink is hot. and hot that big piece of metal requires a lot of energy.

WiseDraco 02-05-2013 02:17 PM

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/781-...mation-2d.html

according to that, r4350 in 2d eats approx 8 watts. dont know, what is measuring procedure, and how correct this is, but in my opinion, it is not sufficient power for warm up big heatsink to about 65 celsius. tommorow try again set up r4350 and write down temperature after 10 minutes after login in slack cli on default mode, and in low consume mode...

jlinkels 02-05-2013 05:20 PM

If power dissipation is that all important for you, I think you don't have selected the right mainboard.

I run my home server on an Atom mainboard with integrated Intel VGA. Total power dissipation under 20 Watts. You'd better put the powerful mainboard in a client.

jlinkels

WiseDraco 02-06-2013 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlinkels (Post 4885083)
If power dissipation is that all important for you, I think you don't have selected the right mainboard.

I run my home server on an Atom mainboard with integrated Intel VGA. Total power dissipation under 20 Watts. You'd better put the powerful mainboard in a client.

jlinkels

i want optimal value of power consumption \ performance. i purchase atom 1.6 ( asus eeeoc 1000h) for my wife years ago. yes, it is energy friendly and not comes hot, but its performance is similar to my eeepc 900 with 900 mhz celeron. my set for server with core 2 duo 2 ghz e4400 outperforms any atom-based solution in many times, i think. i want to go with that hardware another 6 - 10 years.

jlinkels 02-06-2013 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WiseDraco (Post 4885295)
i want optimal value of power consumption \ performance. i purchase atom 1.6 ( asus eeeoc 1000h) for my wife years ago. yes, it is energy friendly and not comes hot, but its performance is similar to my eeepc 900 with 900 mhz celeron. my set for server with core 2 duo 2 ghz e4400 outperforms any atom-based solution in many times, i think. i want to go with that hardware another 6 - 10 years.

That is of course a valid reason to choose or not for an Atom based server. However, since you want to use your server primarily headless and only in case of problems connect a monitor, I can confirm that the power of an Atom for a home server is more than adequate. Even for the next 10 years I foresee to remain that low in processing power. As you undoubtedly know, Linux does not get more and more bloated if used without X.

The only disadvantage I see with my own server is that I cannot host Virtual Machines. That is beyond the capabilities. For the few virtual machines that I have I either host them in the cloud, or on a super power hungry AMD multicore something which I only switch on for a few hours per week.

jlinkels


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