Surge protectors
 

have you heard of surge protectors that catch fire?i wonder if this is just when you have a stupid cell or cordless phone charging and not the computer desktop computer

ive read its best to have just one in an outlet so that one duplex outlet is empty

or is it ok to have a phone charging on the bottom one and the power strip on top outlet?

i wonder if an extension cord is ok to use in one outlet with 2 or 3 things in that like a radio and not a damn charging device

ill assume a metal power strip is best

Hi there,

yes, that may happen when they really have to do their job, which is to eliminate peaks of overvoltage. Now, normal variation of the supply voltage doesn't affect them, and a short peak of a few hundred volts caused by heavy machinery is also no problem. But lightning strikes at short range, say, into the neighbor building, can cause a surge protector to pop, on rare occasions it may even catch fire.
However, they must be made from self-extinguishing material, and if people are clever, that's not an actual danger. Of course, hiding a surge protector behind a curtain or wooden furniture is not clever.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of equipment you're operating at that power outlet.

That's nonsense. You just have to make sure that you don't exceed the maximum current or power rating. In Germany and many other European countries, electrical outlets, extension cords and distribution plugs are usually rated for 16A at 230V (which makes a power rating of 3680W). A small power supply or charger for a cell phone, a cordless phone or other small equipment like that is usually around 5W, a notebook power supply may weigh in at 50W, a desktop computer including a flatscreen monitor might consume up to 300W. So just add it up ...

If you exceed the maximum rating considerably, the wiring and the contacts can get hot - so hot, that the plastic around them eventually melts or smoulders.

In terms of flammability, yes. But I've never seen a metal one. Besides, you still need plastic for the insulation.

[X] Doc CPU

Member response
 

Hi,

It really depends on the surge protector design. If the unit uses MOV (Metal Oxide Voristor) in a common mode then the unit will shunt the energy unless the device specifications are exceeded and then failure when the energy rating (in joules) has been exceeded. If you have high inductive loads then you should consider a Pi design.

Better MOV circuit designs that use the Pi filter design along with frequency protection will provide efficient protection within the energy rating.

Even better units that are UPS will provide better filtering at a larger capacity along with constant power at a higher cost.

As to your myths, just that.

i have a asus netbook and the charger gets very hot and im afraid to use it

its not the original charger and maybe off a little in some aspect but it works

if i look ill find the other one but that one shorts out now and then

another thing that gets hot is a digital converter box for tv

Hi there,

what is "hot" in your assessment? Actually, some power supplies do get pretty warm - so warm that you might shy away the first moment you touch the plastic case, but when you force yourself to put your hand on it, you find you can still touch it without getting burned. That's not really good, because it means that the unit wastes a lot of energy, but normal for some units.

Re-check the label with the technical specifications of your notebook (usually at the bottom). ASUS notebooks work with 19V DC, like the vast majority of notebook brands, and it probably has a required current rating of roundabout 3A.
Now check the power supply. It should also have an output voltage of 19V or 18V, and a current rating that's about the same or higher than the notebook's requirement.

You might find, just for example:
Notebook DC 19V, 2.75A
Power supply DC 19V, 3.15A

That would be perfectly okay. But if the power supply's current rating is lower than the notebook's requirement, you're running the power supply in overload condition at times. Normally, they have an integrated overload and short circuit protection, so it won't cause any damage. But under that condition, it can get warmer than usual.

Again: Electronic equipment sometimes gets hotter than we'd like. But if you can still touch it, it's not a reason to worry.

[X] Doc CPU

thank you

the newer power cord doesnt have the UL label on it -it appears to be a RoHS brand



the other asus says 1.0a the second 1a

the asus says 50-60hz

the second 47-63hz

but with no UL listing why trust it?

this is a netbook and not a notebook -i thought of putting linux on it

i guess the gateway laptop power cord gets hot but maybe not as hot as this one

Hi there,

RoHS is not a brand name - it's the abbreviation of a European directive which requires that no environmentally harmful materials (such as lead, cadmium or some critical hydrocarbons) are used. UL, however, is an American authority that imposes safety standards for electrical equipment. Depending on where you live, it may not be meaningful for you. If the power cord or the power supply has a "CE" symbol (which I expect when it claims to be RoHS compliant), it indicates that it fulfills all European standards. That's about as good as the UL mark; the differences are negligible.

A lower-case 'a'? Looks more like a version number ...

That's not a difference for me - I avoid the fantasy term "netbook", it's just an ultra-small notebook.

Good idea, go ahead. That was about the first thing I did with my netb... erm, notebook. A few days after purchase, I purged the preinstalled Windows XP Home and put Ubuntu 10.04 on it, which was up to date at the time. I didn't take the dedicated "Netbook Edition", though. I tried it briefly, but it appeared too stripped-down for my liking. Despite the small display (10" and 1024x600) I took the standard Ubuntu edition.
Meanwhile I have Mint 12 on it, and I'll probably upgrade to Mint 13 shortly (Mint 12 is still a bit behind in terms of power management).

Again I'm puzzled: Are we really talking about the power cord? That should never, ever get hot.
Probably you mean the power supply unit.

[X] Doc CPU

the cord plugs into a box called a power adapter -i guess you call it a power supply

adapter gets hot

i dont know why it hasnt a brand name or phone number on it

that seems odd

Moderator response
 

Moved: This thread is more suitable in <Linux-Hardware> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question get the exposure it deserves.

Hi there,

I'm sure it has, but maybe you don't recognize the name as such. Probably something Asian. Chinese, Korean, or Taiwanese.
After all, hardly any notebook manufacturer produces power supplies on their own, but instead most of them buy them from Asian companies that can produce them very cheap. Besides, the computer manufacturers circumvent many safety constraints that way, because everything concerning hazardous voltage isn't their business any more.

My notebook, for example, is from MEDION, a German brand known for high-quality, but low-cost products. The power supply, however, is labeled "Made in China" and comes from a company called FSP Group Inc.

[X] Doc CPU

Member response
 

Hi,

UL is not an American authority but a Certification safety testing laboratory that is approved by several U.S. Federal governing bodies to test or certify by use of UL standards and test procedure(s);

Destructive surges are typically hundreds of thousands of joules. View the number on protector spec sheets. How does its hundreds of joules adsorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. And it does not have to. It is sold to people who only use hearsay and feelings.

All appliances already have superior protection. A surge too tiny to overwhelm that protection may also destroy the grossly undersized power strip protector. No problem. Protectors install a thermal fuse to disconnect MOVs (the protector device) as fast as possible. And leave the surge connected to the computer. Computer protected itself. And a naive consumer than says, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Nonsense that gets the naive to buy and recommend more grossly undersized protectors.

Sometimes that fuse does not blow fast enough. Then a fire results. The examples of numerous. melbourne architect on 20 Apr 2011 entitled "Safety Switches / Surge Protection":Norma in alt.fiftyplus entitled "The Power Outage": On 28 Sept 2007 from a Boston TV station: A NC fire marshal even describes why these power strips cause fires (can be discussed later).

Facilities that can never have surge damage always use something completely different that also has a similar name. One 'whole house' surge protector protects everything when properly earthed. A typical lightning strike may be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. These are provided by more responsible companies including Siemens, Square D, Leviton, General Electric, Keison, or Intermatic. A Cutler-Hammer is sold in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

No protector does protection. A protector works by connecting hundreds of thousands of joules low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. Hundreds of thousands of joules harmless dissipated outside mean no surge damage and no fire threats. It is even essential to protect power strip protectors and the power supply that feeds your computer.

Hi there,

yes, I know, my wording was misleading. But they behave like they were an authority, and they can do so because ...

Exactly. Fact is, for a European company it is almost impossible to sell electrical equipment on the US market without a UL label. Although it's not forbidden to sell the product without UL certification (that's the difference to CE certification in Europe), nobody would buy the product, because the company that would use it has to prove the safety of the entire equipment. The easiest way to do so is to prove that all materials and components are UL certified (listed or recognized), and that the installation and wiring has been done according to best engineering practice.

[X] Doc CPU