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Old 01-30-2011, 07:23 PM   #1
lpallard
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SSD cloning quick question


I searched the web for an answer, most people are reporting all kind of strange problems with machine that would not boot or weird FS problems, so I decided to post here and ask the LQ community.

I have a 40GB SSD (OCZ Agility) in my htpc. I use about 12GB right now.

Having a SSD in this machine, I wonder if I could clone "disk to image" to my local server's NFS just like I would do with a normal HDD. I would also (if needed) recover with "image to disk".

Any problems with doing so? I cant afford to toast this machine, I worked too much on it just to risk.

Thanks!
 
Old 01-30-2011, 11:05 PM   #2
EDDY1
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I don't know what SSD is, but clonezilla has capability to send image over a network.

Clonezilla-live
 
Old 01-30-2011, 11:07 PM   #3
MS3FGX
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An SSD is functionally identical to a HDD, it just uses flash instead of magnetic media. You can do all of the same things you would normally, so there is no problem making or restoring images of an SSD. The same rules apply from HDDs though, don't attempt to restore an image of one drive to a different drive, as that can lead to problems.
 
Old 01-31-2011, 09:13 AM   #4
lpallard
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Quote:
I don't know what SSD is, but clonezilla has capability to send image over a network.
Agree. I have been using Clonezilla live for years on my other machines with normal HDD's. I just wanted to confirm that cloning the SSD drive to an image would not end up with a big 12GB garbage file...

Quote:
The same rules apply from HDDs though, don't attempt to restore an image of one drive to a different drive, as that can lead to problems.
Agree. AFAIK, this is due to sectors count and cylinder boundaries... Most posts I've read over the web are from unexperienced people trying to clone a HDD to a different sized HDD or from SSD to HDD... SSD's & HDD's do not store data the same way.

So you think making an image of my SSD drive to my network and using this image later on to restore would work ??

Also, unless I am using an old release of CZ, I did try to clone the SSD to an image but I simply couldnt select the SDA (SSD) drive from the selection list, just like if CZ wouldnt detect my SSD... I will check tonight which version of CZ I am curently using. If they just recently implemented SSD support in CZ, that would be why it was not detecting the ssd.

Thanks!

Last edited by lpallard; 01-31-2011 at 09:14 AM.
 
Old 01-31-2011, 10:37 AM   #5
silvyus_06
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partimage or fsarchiver anyone ??? clonezilla is bad... + that with sys rescue cd with fsarchiver you can mount your network in mnt and then can make the copy there directly.
 
Old 01-31-2011, 11:41 AM   #6
lpallard
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Quote:
partimage or fsarchiver anyone ???
never heard of those...

Quote:
clonezilla is bad...
Just trying to learn here.... I have been using clonezilla for years and really pushed the limits beyond normal usage. Cloned and retrieved to/from NFS, local drives, archived clones, etc... and never had a single glitch.

Why are you saying CZ is bad!? Can you explain? CZ can copy & retieve over NFS easily. Select the NFS option from the media selection and enter your server's $IP:/path/to/mount/point
 
Old 01-31-2011, 11:43 AM   #7
EDDY1
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You can find partimage on gparted-live-cd
And partimage is part of clonezilla-live, when it saves it asks where do you want to create /home/partimage directory.

Last edited by EDDY1; 01-31-2011 at 11:45 AM.
 
Old 01-31-2011, 02:38 PM   #8
jefro
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Clonezilla tries to make a file by file copy. If it can't read the source, it tried to use dd. It may end up as a huge file. Clonezilla and redobackup may or may not work on all systems.

One can zero out the unused space and use dd piped to a compression tool to lessen the size of the image. I tend to use g4u is I have a lot of time as it basically does that. One can use dd over ftp or nc is one wanted to or dd from a drive as a whole to a secondary drive as a file image.

There are a few tips and tricks on ssd's and they tend to do with the OS and how it uses ssd's correctly or not. There may even be some tips on how to align sectors or partitions on newer drives.

Almost any live cd could use downloaded apps even if they were not on the base distro. A normal machine's ram can hold a few simple tools to run. I use them that way a lot.

Knoppix was pretty good but a simple debian live dvd has a lot too. Any of the top 30 at distrowatch ought to be just as good.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:30 PM   #9
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpallard View Post
I searched the web for an answer, most people are reporting all kind of strange problems with machine that would not boot or weird FS problems, so I decided to post here and ask the LQ community.

I have a 40GB SSD (OCZ Agility) in my htpc. I use about 12GB right now.

Having a SSD in this machine, I wonder if I could clone "disk to image" to my local server's NFS just like I would do with a normal HDD. I would also (if needed) recover with "image to disk".

Any problems with doing so? I cant afford to toast this machine, I worked too much on it just to risk.

Thanks!
SSD (Solid State Drive) may provide some insight to the characteristics.

Section: Comparison of SSD with hard disk drives is fair comparison.

Be sure to look at 7 SSD optimized file systems.

You can get additional information at Solid State Drives - ArchWiki

4.7 Choice of Filesystem

Plus don't forget about: 'TRIM support is a vital feature that both prolongs SSD lifetime and reduces loss of performance for write operations over time.'

So if you have a standard filesystem then copy or clone should not be a problem since you are doing a read. As for NFS, not always the best choice, depends on how things are setup and method of backup.

As for clonezilla, don't use it, not my choice for copy or backup.
HTH!
 
Old 02-01-2011, 09:56 PM   #10
lpallard
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Quote:
So if you have a standard filesystem then copy or clone should not be a problem since you are doing a read. As for NFS, not always the best choice, depends on how things are setup and method of backup.
I am using reiserfs 3 on all disks... I think we can call this a standard FS?

COuld you explain a bit more why NFS could be bad? AFAIK, I'd be only uploading or retrieving from NFS. Are you refering to network delays or any other network bugs or problems?

Quote:
As for clonezilla, don't use it, not my choice for copy or backup.
WHat are you using? I thought Clonezilla was pretty popular but so far in this single thread, you're the second guy who says he's not using it. Any problems? Better options?

Thanks!
 
Old 02-02-2011, 07:51 AM   #11
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpallard View Post
I am using reiserfs 3 on all disks... I think we can call this a standard FS?

COuld you explain a bit more why NFS could be bad? AFAIK, I'd be only uploading or retrieving from NFS. Are you refering to network delays or any other network bugs or problems?

WHat are you using? I thought Clonezilla was pretty popular but so far in this single thread, you're the second guy who says he's not using it. Any problems? Better options?

Thanks!
It is the methodology of imaging as a backup. You cannot keep the system available to anyone. You will need to isolate the system to use a tool like 'clonezilla' on the system you are performing the action on. As for clone of a desktop, only the individual system will be affected thus less interruption as compared to a server for multiple systems.

Quote:
As for NFS, not always the best choice, depends on how things are setup and method of backup.
I did not say it was bad. Just not the best choice, local backups will surpass a NFS backup. Layers are minimal for a local backup as compared to a NFS. Not saying a NFS cannot be performed but local backups are independent, managed properly the local backup on a system can be managed independent of other services. We are talking about 'backup' not 'imaging'.

Disadvantage of imaging is that it is time consuming and the fact you must take down the target machine. If someone has the need of multiples of a single system then cloning of the image could be performed via clone software (clonezilla) thus making this action simpler. Clonezilla would be suitable for desktop OS and configuration imaging.
Quote:
excerpt from Imaging vs. Backups;
good for imaging server systems before they're deployed. Using Clonezilla is not a good substitute for daily backups of your data on a personal computer, and no good at all for day-to-day data protection on servers. That doesn't mean Clonezilla is useless — it's a great tool to save you from having to hassle with reinstalling an OS and applications from scratch. It's just not a backup substitute.
I could not have said it any better than the above 'Linux.com' quote. Backups locally will surpass the use of a clone image when performed properly at timed intervals. If your needs are for a SOHO and NFS is the transfer layer required then use it. If you are comfortable with NFS and over a LAN is the only means then use it for your needs. Just not my personal choice for cloning a local image. Just because something is popular means it is the best 'choice'.

Backups, best choice for day to day!

HTH!
 
Old 02-02-2011, 09:36 AM   #12
lpallard
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onebuck,

I understand the problem with offline system being cloned or imaged. I am OK with having the system offline or unavailable since all my machines are desktops except my server which back itself up in a differnt way.

I am not using CZ on a regular basis. Basically, I use CZ to "clone" the system once all it setup, all packages are installed and the system is stable. Thats only a "simple" way of having a backup of the whole machine in case one morning I wake up and my system is in smoke... Get a new HDD and clone back to it, back in action within 1 hour. As for "backups", I am using rsnapshot. It does a "backup" of the system once a month to my NFS server. Usually it completes within minutes since my htpc and my laptop are not machines changing a lot... at least once the system is built.

I initially initiated this thread because I was concerned about going to restore a clone to the SSD and have a system that does nbot boot, or even worst, a totally screwed or messed filesystem... therefore losing all data.
 
Old 02-02-2011, 10:33 AM   #13
onebuck
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Hi,

Go ahead and perform the clone. Your SSD will be read and cannot see a problem with the read when things are setup for the local machine. Look at the before mention drive comparison for idea of the time difference. Your control electronics will manage the SSD, information is handled via embedded processor on the SSD. If you clone SSD image intercommunication will still need to pass & control the data. READ is being performed on the local SSD. As to the write to another storage media and where, that's your decision/selection(s) available for the destination container.
 
Old 02-22-2011, 06:22 PM   #14
lpallard
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Thanks to all for the advices here! It seems that clonezilla (latest release clonezilla-live-20110218-maverick) can do SSD cloning, but the previous release (clonezilla-live-1.2.1-39) I had couldnt do it. I made the clones yesterday and all went fine!
 
  


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