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Old 07-12-2005, 12:38 AM   #1
dolvmin
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Post-Install Partitioning - Dual Hard Drives


I need help. I been trying to find some software to help me partition a hard drive. The problem is, I can not afford to have the information on that drive destroyed, so I can't do this manually on commend line. I have two hard drives:

-hdc (MBR Primary Boot - /boot is GRUB)
/home in hdc9
/(root) in hdc8
/boot in hdc7
Linux Swap in hdc4
ntfs in hdc2, hdc3
fat32 in hdc1

-hda
ntfs in hda1
*Linux Swap in hda2
*Linux ext3 (maybe /home/(users) in hda3

* I want to create these partitions, format them, and mount them. I know how to mount them and I think I can figure out how to format them, but I don't know how to partition them.

Can someone help me please?
 
Old 07-12-2005, 01:31 AM   #2
azbaer
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Make backups for you data, there is noone can promise not losing your data. I think there is a program call kparted or flips.
 
Old 07-12-2005, 09:16 AM   #3
motub
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Quote:
The problem is, I can not afford to have the information on that drive destroyed, so I can't do this manually on commend line.
I just have to point this out, because I think I know what you mean, but the way you've said it can be taken in a totally different way (which makes no sense).
[list=1][*]Partitioning drives always carries the risk of destroying your data, no matter how you do it. As azbaer said, back up your data first!!!
[*]Any GUI front end program is just that-- a front-end for the command line programs that you are avoiding. It's not as if they're something different; they just run the same commands for you in a way that you might find more easy to understand (so you're less likely to mess up, which is what I think you meant)-- but everybody's mind doesn't work the same way (so some find it easier/more sensible to work with the commands directly), and a GUI adds a layer of complexity that concerns some people (what commands is the GUI actually running? are they the right ones? If you want something done right, do it yourself....)[/list=1]
So don't think that running a GUI partitioner will "save" you from mistakes that you might make on the cli (command-line interface); if you don't know what you're doing, you're only slightly less likely to mess up (and that only because it's more obvious in a GUI how to cancel out without changing anything than it is on the CLI).

That said, you probably want qtparted (QT Partition Editor). It has a lot of QT (and possibly KDE) dependencies, as well as the backend dependency tools needed to manage the various filesystem types it's capable of dealing with, but is generally considered to be the most full-featured and complete application of its type.

If qtparted is a bit too heavy on dependencies for you and you perhaps want to avoid QT, you can take a look at gparted which is a GTK front-end to parted (as qtparted is a QT frontend to parted). It's a bit less featured, being younger, but it may be adequate for your needs.

And really, there's nothing wrong with using cfdisk and ***tools (*** referring to whatever filesystem you're managing). Just make a list of your partitions, using both the /dev/hd specification, size, label if any, and what it's supposed to be, and keep it in front of you as you set up the operation, make sure to type/select carefully, and if you are in any way alarmed or concerned that you might have made a mistake, Quit (cfdisk), or exit or CTRL+C (any tools), and start over. Which is what you'd do with a GUI as well-- partitioning is simply "not safe" (there's no way to do it without risking damage to your data), and whatever tool you use, you'll just have to live with a few moments' fear.

Knowing you have a backup helps. And qtparted helps a bit too-- it may be a bit hard to understand, but it is very stable and you can trust that it knows what it's doing, so you can trust that it will do what you tell it to correctly (although it's up to you to tell it the correct thing to do correctly).

Hope this helps.
 
Old 07-12-2005, 09:41 AM   #4
azbaer
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Holly,
Thank you I couldnt remeber the actual name of qtparted. You also add info that I forgot to Post.
Great info!
 
Old 07-12-2005, 05:27 PM   #5
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Do you still have left in the hda disk for the new partitions?

If that is the case just add the 2 new partitions with fdisk.

If not I think you have a problem as you "BETTER" backup the actual content before resizing hda1 partition to gain some space. you may want to have a look over this site - http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html - and download this tools - http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/downloads.html -.

Good luck for NTF$.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 02:04 AM   #6
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdogpc
Do you still have left in the hda disk for the new partitions?

If that is the case just add the 2 new partitions with fdisk.

If not I think you have a problem as you "BETTER" backup the actual content before resizing hda1 partition to gain some space. you may want to have a look over this site - http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html - and download this tools - http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/downloads.html -.

Good luck for NTF$.
fdisk makes fat16 & fat32. It does not make ntfs, ext3 or linux swap. But that is interesting enough for me to consider. I might bypass ext3 and use fat32 instead, since it can be used by both operating systems. Never-the-less, I still need a Linux swap.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 02:08 AM   #7
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by motub
I just have to point this out, because I think I know what you mean, but the way you've said it can be taken in a totally different way (which makes no sense).
[list=1][*]Partitioning drives always carries the risk of destroying your data, no matter how you do it. As azbaer said, back up your data first!!!
[*]Any GUI front end program is just that-- a front-end for the command line programs that you are avoiding. It's not as if they're something different; they just run the same commands for you in a way that you might find more easy to understand (so you're less likely to mess up, which is what I think you meant)-- but everybody's mind doesn't work the same way (so some find it easier/more sensible to work with the commands directly), and a GUI adds a layer of complexity that concerns some people (what commands is the GUI actually running? are they the right ones? If you want something done right, do it yourself....)[/list=1]
So don't think that running a GUI partitioner will "save" you from mistakes that you might make on the cli (command-line interface); if you don't know what you're doing, you're only slightly less likely to mess up (and that only because it's more obvious in a GUI how to cancel out without changing anything than it is on the CLI).

That said, you probably want qtparted (QT Partition Editor). It has a lot of QT (and possibly KDE) dependencies, as well as the backend dependency tools needed to manage the various filesystem types it's capable of dealing with, but is generally considered to be the most full-featured and complete application of its type.

If qtparted is a bit too heavy on dependencies for you and you perhaps want to avoid QT, you can take a look at gparted which is a GTK front-end to parted (as qtparted is a QT frontend to parted). It's a bit less featured, being younger, but it may be adequate for your needs.

And really, there's nothing wrong with using cfdisk and ***tools (*** referring to whatever filesystem you're managing). Just make a list of your partitions, using both the /dev/hd specification, size, label if any, and what it's supposed to be, and keep it in front of you as you set up the operation, make sure to type/select carefully, and if you are in any way alarmed or concerned that you might have made a mistake, Quit (cfdisk), or exit or CTRL+C (any tools), and start over. Which is what you'd do with a GUI as well-- partitioning is simply "not safe" (there's no way to do it without risking damage to your data), and whatever tool you use, you'll just have to live with a few moments' fear.

Knowing you have a backup helps. And qtparted helps a bit too-- it may be a bit hard to understand, but it is very stable and you can trust that it knows what it's doing, so you can trust that it will do what you tell it to correctly (although it's up to you to tell it the correct thing to do correctly).

Hope this helps.
My concern with command line has nothing to do with command reliability. It has to do with concerns regarding human error. Hence, why I want a GUI. Dependencies should not be a problem, provided I could find them in RPM format. Thanks for the help.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 02:25 AM   #8
syg00
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Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
fdisk makes fat16 & fat32. It does not make ntfs, ext3 or linux swap. But that is interesting enough for me to consider. I might bypass ext3 and use fat32 instead, since it can be used by both operating systems. Never-the-less, I still need a Linux swap.
Perhaps when you ask for help you should be polite enough to accept assistance offered.
The *Linux* fdisk was undoubtedly being referred to. And it certainly has no problems creating Linux partitions. See
Code:
man fdisk
.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 02:39 AM   #9
dolvmin
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qtparted generates the following error: Floating point exception
I do not think this is something I could fix.

parted, when compiled required a few dependancies of which I already have. Appariently, it's not taking notice of them. Since no other GUI application was recomended and a google search didn't pull up anything, this leaves me with on option. I revert back to windows and use Arconis. Might be wrong on the spelling of it. Problem is, I hate installing it. Works great, but had one problem in the past, and it left a very undesirable taiste in mouth.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 02:56 AM   #10
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by syg00
Perhaps when you ask for help you should be polite enough to accept assistance offered.
The *Linux* fdisk was undoubtedly being referred to. And it certainly has no problems creating Linux partitions. See
Code:
man fdisk
.
First off, I wasn't rude. Second, your input did help, as I did specify. Third, your off scope. Notice the following:
Quote:
I need help. I been trying to find some software to help me partition a hard drive. The problem is, I can not afford to have the information on that drive destroyed, so I can't do this manually on commend line.
Finally, why should I accept assistance from you? Or better yet, why should I avoid the suggestion of another for you. Perhaps I feel that others have more concern about my system then you. They did offer suggestions within the scope of my request, while you didn't. Is it not fair that I have a greater concern for my own system then the trust I put in your suggestion? Is it not fair that I make that choice for myself? You suggestion was viewed and acknowledged. Your input provided me with new ideas of how I should approach my problem. I would be honored to hear this if I was in your shoes. Considering I have gone that far for you, I am very much offended that you would acknowledge me as being rude. I feel that you ignored my concern from the very moment you made your first comment on this thread but I was still appreciative toward your attempt to help. In return you offend me. Please take the time to read what I say, because it was never my intention to be rude or insulting and I do not believe I was.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 03:51 AM   #11
syg00
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My previous post was my first in this thread - perhaps you should read the entire thread, and maybe apologise to jdogpc who was attempting to assist you.

As for being off base, I was merely re-iterating the suggestion of a tool known to work.
Even if you had managed to compile one of the GUI front-ends, parted has some issues.

Do as you wish.
 
Old 07-13-2005, 05:36 AM   #12
motub
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Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
Dependencies should not be a problem, provided I could find them in RPM format. Thanks for the help.
Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
qtparted generates the following error: Floating point exception.
You are aware that all of the distributions you list as either currently running or previously having run (that's not clear):

Red Hat 7.2/8/9
Fedora Core 1/2/3
Smoothwall (single-function distribution, so excepted),
Mandrake 7.0/10,
Vecto 4
Arch 0.6
EnGuarde (also excepted)

all have application repositories, and package managers which offer dependency resolution, so 'finding' dependencies (in RPM or any other format) should not normally be necessary.
Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
parted, when compiled required a few dependancies of which I already have. Appariently, it's not taking notice of them.
This supports the idea that you installed 'loose' RPMs and not via your distribution's package manager, and suggests that you installed said loose RPMs on a non-RPM distro.... why else would dependent packages, presumably installed via your distribution's package manager (during install or later) not be able to read the RPM database to find said previously-installed packages? Because they're not in the database,,,, and there can only be a couple of reasons for something like that. In that case, it's not a great surprise you had problems, since the problems you seem to be having are the very reason distribution repositories and package managers exist in the first place.

Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
Since no other GUI application was recomended and a google search didn't pull up anything
Not completely true:

Quote:
Originally posted by motub
If qtparted is a bit too heavy on dependencies for you and you perhaps want to avoid QT, you can take a look at gparted which is a GTK front-end to parted (as qtparted is a QT frontend to parted).
Of course, if you're having troubles with parted, that doesn't help you much, but nonetheless, it was suggested.

Aside from which-- you've got Mandrake on your system? Why don't you just use DiskDrake, which is a great partition manager? Or don't you have Mandrake on the system you're trying to partition? Then boot that PC from Install CD 1, go straight to the 'Partitioning' section of the install, partition the drive as you like, save the scheme, then cancel the install (hard reset). Works a treat. You could also boot from a Knoppix disk and partition your drive from there as well (Knoppix comes with qtparted, being ultimately a rescue and repair CD anyway).

You might also look at PartGUI. Found this, not on Google, but on packages.gentoo.org -- which, like www.debian.org/packages , is a great place to search if you want to know what's available in the Linux world, rather than just what your distribution has on offer.

I never used Arconis specifically for this purpose, in the early days I used Partition Magic, which generally worked well, but I would not suggest making Linux partitions (except swap) with a Windows-native tool. I found there was always something 'wrong' with them (they worked, mostly, but PM reported errors on subsequent runs, and Windows didn't like having them there either (it persisted in trying to recognize them, which of course it couldn't do) and ultimately the whole thing was quite ugly.

What I found worked better was to use the Windows native tool to:

1. Delete or resize any Windows partitions that needed it;

2. Create the Linux swap partition (not strictly necessary to do with the Windows tool, but doing it that way ensured that I knew where the swap partition was in terms of the free space before creating any further partitions)

3. Create any Windows-native partitions I wanted, in the proper place, leaving free space for any Linux partitions I would create later with a Linux-native tool.

Once I had that set up, I would reboot and use a Linux-native partitioner (cfdisk, installer partitioner, qtparted) to create the Linux data partitions.

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
Old 07-23-2005, 02:51 AM   #13
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by syg00
My previous post was my first in this thread - perhaps you should read the entire thread, and maybe apologise to jdogpc who was attempting to assist you.

As for being off base, I was merely re-iterating the suggestion of a tool known to work.
Even if you had managed to compile one of the GUI front-ends, parted has some issues.

Do as you wish.
Actually, you owe him the apology. You maliciously brought a flame within this thread and used him as a reference to convey and empower your interest; which is far beyond the scope of this thread. Your hostility has involved him in the center of a senseless act of pride, which is far beyond supportive nature of this entire forum. You owe far more then I would ever owe him. If you had half the interest of being helpful, you would have used methods similar to the APA style reference rules required by English literature and maintained a professional attitude in parallelism (use references which prove that his claim supports the scope of my request and maintain professionalism in addition). Rather, your declared me a malicious flamer with the definition of your statement and aggressively and unethically attempted to demoralize me to apologize to something of which you triggered unwanted within this thread.

However, I will apologize to the fact that I confused you and him to be one of the same. I very much respect his patience to not get involved in this stupidity. I will not however apologize for your act of hostility. All dept of which relates to that, is entirely your responsibility since you were interested in starting it. I will not be placed in the center of your ego trip nor will I allow you to use any further forms of slander on my threads. Do as you wish, but do this in my threads again and I will report your violation against me by act of harassment.
 
Old 07-23-2005, 03:01 AM   #14
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by motub
You are aware that all of the distributions you list as either currently running or previously having run (that's not clear):

Red Hat 7.2/8/9
Fedora Core 1/2/3
Smoothwall (single-function distribution, so excepted),
Mandrake 7.0/10,
Vecto 4
Arch 0.6
EnGuarde (also excepted)

all have application repositories, and package managers which offer dependency resolution, so 'finding' dependencies (in RPM or any other format) should not normally be necessary.

This supports the idea that you installed 'loose' RPMs and not via your distribution's package manager, and suggests that you installed said loose RPMs on a non-RPM distro.... why else would dependent packages, presumably installed via your distribution's package manager (during install or later) not be able to read the RPM database to find said previously-installed packages? Because they're not in the database,,,, and there can only be a couple of reasons for something like that. In that case, it's not a great surprise you had problems, since the problems you seem to be having are the very reason distribution repositories and package managers exist in the first place.



Not completely true:



Of course, if you're having troubles with parted, that doesn't help you much, but nonetheless, it was suggested.

Aside from which-- you've got Mandrake on your system? Why don't you just use DiskDrake, which is a great partition manager? Or don't you have Mandrake on the system you're trying to partition? Then boot that PC from Install CD 1, go straight to the 'Partitioning' section of the install, partition the drive as you like, save the scheme, then cancel the install (hard reset). Works a treat. You could also boot from a Knoppix disk and partition your drive from there as well (Knoppix comes with qtparted, being ultimately a rescue and repair CD anyway).

You might also look at PartGUI. Found this, not on Google, but on packages.gentoo.org -- which, like www.debian.org/packages , is a great place to search if you want to know what's available in the Linux world, rather than just what your distribution has on offer.

I never used Arconis specifically for this purpose, in the early days I used Partition Magic, which generally worked well, but I would not suggest making Linux partitions (except swap) with a Windows-native tool. I found there was always something 'wrong' with them (they worked, mostly, but PM reported errors on subsequent runs, and Windows didn't like having them there either (it persisted in trying to recognize them, which of course it couldn't do) and ultimately the whole thing was quite ugly.

What I found worked better was to use the Windows native tool to:

1. Delete or resize any Windows partitions that needed it;

2. Create the Linux swap partition (not strictly necessary to do with the Windows tool, but doing it that way ensured that I knew where the swap partition was in terms of the free space before creating any further partitions)

3. Create any Windows-native partitions I wanted, in the proper place, leaving free space for any Linux partitions I would create later with a Linux-native tool.

Once I had that set up, I would reboot and use a Linux-native partitioner (cfdisk, installer partitioner, qtparted) to create the Linux data partitions.

Hope this helps and good luck.
Actually, this information is very helpful. However, I'm sorry to say, I understand and respect the advantages of Mandrake but wish not to go near using it. But there is something that does interest me regarding it. Mandrake 7.0 does not work on my system because my motherboard VIA chip-set is far from it's support. However, if Mandrake 10 can work, I could used the partitioner that comes along with it without completing the install. I'm surprised I didn't think about this before, since I often used Mandrake 7 for these tasks in earlier system models. Thank you very much. If I'm successful in any of the recommendations you have offered, i will be sure to let you know.
 
Old 07-23-2005, 03:06 AM   #15
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by motub
You are aware that all of the distributions you list as either currently running or previously having run (that's not clear):

Red Hat 7.2/8/9
Fedora Core 1/2/3
Smoothwall (single-function distribution, so excepted),
Mandrake 7.0/10,
Vecto 4
Arch 0.6
EnGuarde (also excepted)
I'm not following you on this, could you please clarify the problem?
 
  


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