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Old 05-28-2006, 11:11 PM   #1
Drahcir
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Question Installing ATA/IDE HDD on SATA HDD System


Sorry if this has been asked before. I tried searching but I didn't find anything.

I've recently acquired a newer computer and I wish to install an IDE HDD from my older computer on to it (as a secondary drive). The trouble is that the newer computer has a SATA drive, which I have no experience with.

The SATA HDD is 40GB in size and the one I'm about to install is an IDE 80GB. The computer also came with a DVD+RW ROM.

The computer has two IDE ports. Just one is in use and connecting to the DVD-ROM. I planning to install a new cable on the unused port and connect my IDE drive to that, as I have read that CD-ROMs & HDD shouldn't be on the same cable.

If this is correct, what should I select the cable to be (master, slave or cable select) and I should connect the drive to the end of the cable, right?

After this do I need to change anything in the BIOS to get it working?


Big thanks to anybody who replies.
 
Old 05-29-2006, 12:37 AM   #2
Bruce Hill
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Your SATA drive will remain /dev/sda
You should connect your IDE hard drive to IDE0 and put the jumper on it as master.
You should connect your ATAPI DVD-RW to IDE1 and put the jumper on it as master.

This will give you:
/dev/sda -- SATA drive
/dev/hda -- IDE drive
/dev/hdc -- ATAPI drive

For performance, you can create one swap on the SATA drive and another on the IDE drive, and having the DVD-RW on a different controller will help when transferring data to/from the different drives on the PCI bus, especially burning CD/DVDs.

Don't know if this will help or confuse you, but in this box I have 2 SATA drives, no IDE drive, and 2 DVD+/-RW drives. This is my /etc/fstab:
Code:
mingdao@silas:~$ cat /etc/fstab
/dev/sda5        swap             swap        defaults         0   0
/dev/sda7        /                reiserfs    defaults         1   1
/dev/sda6        /boot            reiserfs    defaults         1   2
/dev/sda8        /home            reiserfs    defaults         1   2
/dev/sdb1        /backup          ntfs        ro               1   0
/dev/sda1        /WinXP           ntfs        ro               1   0
/dev/sda2        /Shared          vfat        user,umask=1000,rw,auto  1   0
/dev/cdrom       /mnt/cdrom       auto        noauto,owner,ro  0   0
/dev/hda         /dvd1            auto        noauto,users,ro  0   0
/dev/hdc         /dvd2            auto        noauto,users,ro  0   0
/dev/fd0         /mnt/floppy      auto        noauto,owner     0   0
devpts           /dev/pts         devpts      gid=5,mode=620   0   0
proc             /proc            proc        defaults         0   0
/dev/sdc1        /mnt/usb         vfat        noauto,users,rw,umask=1000  0  0
/dev/sdd1        /mnt/usb1        vfat        noauto,users,rw,umask=1000  0  0
###Temporary mounts for the old Slackware drive###
/dev/sdb2        /Slack_shared    vfat        users,umask=1000,rw,auto   1   0
/dev/sdb6        /Slack_root      reiserfs    defaults         1   1
/dev/sdb7        /Slack_home      reiserfs    defaults         1   2
/dev/sdb8        /Slack_network   reiserfs    defaults         1   2
/dev/sdb9        /Slack_fileshare vfat        users,umask=1000,rw,auto   1   0
####################################################################
###Mount point for NFS###
192.168.1.11:/home /serverhome nfs auto,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr 0 0
192.168.1.11:/backup /server1 nfs auto,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr 0 0
192.168.1.11:/backup2 /server2 nfs auto,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr 0 0

# Next line added for kqemu - it will not harm your system
none                    /dev/shm                tmpfs   size=1040M        0 0
The SATA drive labeled /dev/sdb was originally in here, but I replaced it with a WD Raptor that is now /deb/sda, and need to transfer some data. Afterwards, it will be removed.

Last edited by Bruce Hill; 05-29-2006 at 12:42 AM.
 
Old 05-29-2006, 02:07 AM   #3
Drahcir
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Thanks for your reply. I haven't installed Slackware on it just yet so it's more of a handware issue. I'm currently using the pre-installed Windows XP Home until I get my hardware working.

I've installed the drive. I left the DVD drive on the same IDE cable due to the amount of wires in the small box made it very difficult to switch. This shouldn't make any difference other then the drive's path, right?

The problem I'm having now is that when I boot it up, it hangs for about ten minutes displaying the message "Detecting IDE Drives..." and once it start Windows, both the DVD & HDD aren't detected. Both drives are set to master on their own cables.

Something tells me that the solution has something to do with the BIOS options, but I don't really know where it is located.

Thanks again.
 
Old 05-29-2006, 04:49 PM   #4
KarlosDaJackel
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You can't have 2 ide devices set to master on the same cable.

Change both driver to cable select and it should stop hanging.
 
Old 05-29-2006, 05:14 PM   #5
Bruce Hill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosDaJackel
You can't have 2 ide devices set to master on the same cable.

Change both driver to cable select and it should stop hanging.
Seems you misread his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drahcir
Both drives are set to master on their own cables.
 
Old 05-29-2006, 05:50 PM   #6
AwesomeMachine
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Sata, Ide

When you have SATA and IDE there are 4 channels. Two of these are PIDE. If you have a pata HDD, it goes on the first pide channel. HDD's go together, and optical drives go together. Optical drives go on the second pide channel. With a pata HDD, there is sometimes a jumper setting for neither master, nor slave, but "only". Usually the drive can be set to master if it is the only drive on the pide channel. Optical drives need to be jumpered as master if it is the only drive on the channel.

You connect a single drive to the middle connector of the cable, and make sure the blue end goes into the mobo. I know there are a lot of wires in a computer, but if the wires are going to stop you from doing this correctly, don't bother asking for help. You can disconnect the wires which are in the way and hook everything up correctly. Then, reconnect the wires. If you want to be doing things like putting a HDD in a system you have to be willing to do what it takes to get it done.
 
Old 05-30-2006, 01:48 AM   #7
Drahcir
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Thanks AwesomeMachine. I'll try that as soon as I can. I didn't know that optical drives needed to go on the last channel. One of the IDE channels has a yellow end and port but I'm guessing this doesn't make any difference. As you can tell, I've hadn't have much experience with this, but once again thanks for your help.
 
Old 05-30-2006, 02:59 AM   #8
Bruce Hill
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AwesomeMachine,

That information is not correct. It's my desire to see that this guy gets the correct information; and not to be critical of you. This information is based on over 10 years of experience building and repairing computers.
  • You can put ATAPI drives or IDE drives on either IDE controller -- it doesn't matter. They are both standard IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.
  • You can use either end or the middle of modern cables with both types of drive.
  • The jumper settings on ATAPI and IDE drives are typically master, slave, cable select, limit capacity, or spare (never seen only).

The OP didn't say that he wan't willing to disconnect wires, so don't be so hard on him. If we exhibit such an attitude towards people, then we nullify the spirit of LQ that is stated in the rules:
Quote:
We are proud of the fact that despite of our growing numbers we continue to remain extremely friendly to both the newbie and the expert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drahcir
I've installed the drive. I left the DVD drive on the same IDE cable due to the amount of wires in the small box made it very difficult to switch. This shouldn't make any difference other then the drive's path, right?

The problem I'm having now is that when I boot it up, it hangs for about ten minutes displaying the message "Detecting IDE Drives..." and once it start Windows, both the DVD & HDD aren't detected. Both drives are set to master on their own cables.

Something tells me that the solution has something to do with the BIOS options, but I don't really know where it is located.
There should be no problem with you keeping the DVD-RW where it was; and if you have one of those 'Micro ATX' form factor boards, and/or an ATX Mini Tower, Micro-BTX Mini Tower, MicroATX Mini Tower cases -- then I don't envy you mucking around in that small space. You do whatever is comfortable to you, and so that you can keep your parts in one piece.

You can leave the DVD-RW where it was, and put the new IDE drive on another cable on the other IDE controller.

Check the BIOS setup utility for something such as "Boot Device Priority." If you tell which make and model of motherboard, we might have more advice. In this particular Asus board under there is has:
Quote:
1st - VIA VT6420 1st HDD
2nd - DC/DVDW
3rd - 1st Floppy
You should have something similar. That VIA VT6420 is the SATA RAID controller on this board -- I have no IDE drive installed atm.

I also recall one of my boards having some choice about booting from the IDE controller first. You don't want it to boot that IDE drive until you have an operating system on it.

If you need help with your BIOS settings, please post the manufacturer, model, and revision number of your motherboard.
 
Old 05-30-2006, 03:34 AM   #9
Drahcir
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Thanks Chinaman for your helpful reply. I was happy to disconnect wires but I didn't expect it to make any difference if I did (other then prehaps changing the device path in Linux).

This is the computer, here. If I recall correctly, I tried looking in the Boot Device Priority screen but only the SATA drive was listed. I don't think I saw the option to boot from an IDE drive first etiher.

However I'll double check that and get back to you on the BIOS version & other infomation.

Just for easier reference, the DVD Drive & HDD are installed on a separate ATA cable and are both set to master.

EDIT: I've got the infomation.

Award BIOS v6.00PG
Main Board ID: E661GXM
System BIOS Version: R01-C2
SMBIOS Version: 2.3
Release date: March 1, 2006

Last edited by Drahcir; 05-30-2006 at 04:38 AM.
 
Old 05-30-2006, 04:12 AM   #10
Bruce Hill
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So you've got Windows to boot and recognize the drives. Now right-click on My Computer, choose Manage, then under Storage > Disk Management see if it detects all your drives.
 
Old 05-31-2006, 02:32 AM   #11
crazy_wgl
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The way you orig stated sounds ok. (one drive per ide channel) wouldn't matter if it's cs or master. (As long as they are on the cable end for the master.)

Most bios should detect the added drive.

I haven't had any problems putting the different types of drives on the same cable. (Except the old 40 wire drives mixed--old ata drives.) But the middle part is the "slave", and end is "master" --but you can supposedly use cable select.

The DVD/CD can maybe use the 40 line cables, and the Ultra ATA needs the 80 line cables.

I just usually unplug the jumpers for slave. When I'm copying hard drives, I usually boot from ide0 (master), and copy from and to the slave and 2nd ide line.

If you are switching over to Linux though, don't see why you need all the space.
(Unless you want to install a dual boot system.)

This one's only 40 gigs, and I use maybe 21 percent of the drive. (For a 25 gig partition.)

The other system was using maybe 15 percent on a 40 gig partition.

I've read that they shouldn't be mixed as well, but testing speed, doesn't seem to matter. But the larger the built in buffers, the faster the hard drive.

(The CDS go so slow, if they are in use, the speed of the hard drive far surpasses it.) So you can't transfer to/from the hard drive any faster than the CD anyway.

If you are writing to CD, fastest way is make an image copy, and skip the "virtual memory" --if you can. (Especially in Windows.) As the virtual memory pages back out (in chunks) to the hard drive. (So you have the same data going both ways on the same line to the same device.)

Drastically slows Windows down.

If you plug the Hard drive into ide0 though, it may confuse the bios as to which to boot, I'd think. (The sata or the hd.) you may need to reset it.
 
  


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