Linux - HardwareThis forum is for Hardware issues.
Having trouble installing a piece of hardware? Want to know if that peripheral is compatible with Linux?
Notices
Welcome to LinuxQuestions.org, a friendly and active Linux Community.
You are currently viewing LQ as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, receive our newsletter, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many other special features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join our community today!
Note that registered members see fewer ads, and ContentLink is completely disabled once you log in.
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you need to reset your password, click here.
Having a problem logging in? Please visit this page to clear all LQ-related cookies.
Get a virtual cloud desktop with the Linux distro that you want in less than five minutes with Shells! With over 10 pre-installed distros to choose from, the worry-free installation life is here! Whether you are a digital nomad or just looking for flexibility, Shells can put your Linux machine on the device that you want to use.
Exclusive for LQ members, get up to 45% off per month. Click here for more info.
Having serviced peoples computers for them, some people just do not need to be able to change anything whatsoever on their computers... even that doesn't help some times. Now, granted, this probably doesn't apply to people that are interested in using linux. IMHO a better solution would be a tool that helps you edit the config files yourself but highlights pertinent bits, backs them up for you, etc--basically anything a properly configured text editor will do but more specifically tuned.
I'm sorry if you think I was putting you (or anyone who doesn't want to be a computer wizard) down... I really was commenting on the fact that I think that having GUIs to do system admin actually keeps people from being able to learn about their computer.
I agree that the averge person on the street doesn't want to know everything about everything about his or her computer. However, the fact is that computers are extremely complex and flexible tools, and thus anyone who wants to get the most out of them will end up learning a lot about them sooner or later... and I think that GUI admin tools get in the way of this understanding.
Part of the reason the GUI tools get in the way is because (in general) they don't have every possible function built in... for example, in this case you would like the GUI to have some option to turn off the touch-to-click feature of the touchpad. And when no such feature is found, the poor user is left with no knowledge about where to turn.
An admin tool that told you what system files it was modifying would be a bit more helpful, because then you might be pointed in the right direction when you found the GUI couldn't do what you want to do. But it seems that the idea of letting neophyte users get at more than the absolute minimum about of information is evil or something, and so users are left to hunt through GUI tool options, hoping that they will find a button or checkbox to do what they want. In certain cases this might be the right thing to do, but I think in many cases this approach is more time consuming in the long run.
Cheers
Jim
don get me wrong...i agree sometimes you need to do the hard yard...and yes i totally agree a gui that did give you all the info would be great..maybe that statement can be food for thought for someone interested in doing that...
I hear and understand exactly what you are saying, but I'm afraid you appear to have missed my entire point.
I would like, with the moderators' permission, to push this a little further, and explain what worries me.
wraithe appears to be as well educated, or versed, in linux as you, and she understood. Really it all boils down to one simple point.
Quote:
Do Linux users actually want newbies (neophytes, call them what you will) to actually use their precious elite operating system, thereby increasing the market share, and creating an environment where hardware providers will actually wriote drivers so that their products will work in Linux? Or software companies port their products to Linux?
The greatest disservice any Linux user can offer to the whole Open Source situation is, in my opinion, that which caused another great OS to demise is to create the totally false view that it is necessary to be a guru, and to voice disappointment it is being made easy to use.
I did share on another thread some time back a comparison between the present scene (with Linux) and this previous one. To save having to take another link, I'll post it here, with a link so that the complete article may be read, in context, which is always as important as the actual verbage.
I have been reading several interesting pages about forum posters, and what they are likely doing to their beloved Linux - perhaps through being so single-eyed.
Just before the demise of Commodore, a marketing executive for the company summarized what he thought led to the Amiga's failure to capture significant market share. He minced no words: "The fanatical element among our customer base hasn't done us any favors."
The similarities between the Amiga camp and Linux users are striking. If a journalist writes an article about, say, printers, he or she may get several flaming letters from Amigoids complaining that mention of the Amiga was excluded from the review. Not only is the Amiga the best desktop publishing system on the market, they'd say, but you'd be an idiot to run anything else. And by the way, I know where you live.
What I see as an important paragraph from that article can be pasted here...
Quote:
The uncivil behavior of these few loudmouths threatens to hold Linux back from the stature it deserves. As with the Amiga, many people who could benefit from trying Linux are put off enough by these displays to take their interest elsewhere. Some journalists refuse to take Linux seriously because of the regular Usenet rants, letters to editors, and angry calls to computer talk shows. Linux techno-troopers may not realize that their irrational activism plays a significant role in keeping them a minority.
Some advice to people who wish to advocate Linux. Especially to those who want to criticise other operating systems in the process.
16 August 1996, Lars Wirzenius (liw@iki.fi).
Very well worth reading, both of them.
However, I do suspect that it will not deter a certain group of "flamers" !
Thankyou for the opportunity to make this post, which I do not believe is as off-topic as one might think at first sight
In accordance with the GNU I have referenced the source in both cases.
Please feel free to quote elsewhere
Now, Jim, the circumstances in which I made that previous post were different. Both the "climate" of the thread, and the content.
I would not dream of "putting you in the same box" as those to whom I was addressing those remarks.
But, honestly, my friend (and please let us be friends), I worry that thoughts directed at "we are making things too easy for Joe User because this is a bigger, better, more technical system than the plebs want to use" - even if those aren't your actual thoughts - will do irreperable harm to our bigger, better and more technical operating system
Last edited by eagles-lair; 05-18-2006 at 03:17 AM.
wraithe appears to be as well educated, or versed, in linux as you, and he understood. Really it all boils down to one simple point.
can i make one point that you would have missed by not knowing me..."I'm a girl"...
sorry dont want to sound like a feminist, but please just add an "S" in there for me in future, plz...
then i will be smiling more often...lmao...
and damm i need to follow the corporate down falls more often...i didnt realise that amiga had that sort of problem, i was more onto the fact that people are so scared of an OS that is good for more than what people think it is used for...Bit like the mac when it comes to publishing...people see the hype and if we scare them with techno talk, well guess what, less users less growth..
and growth is what linux needs more of...of course we also need lots of geeks to keep it growing but hey, push it and it will grow...
"if its free it can be better than a paying thru the nose"
I don't at all mind a "sigh." And I don't mind working under the hood. I program in my regular life. And, yes, I am new to Linux, but I've been able to get multiple sound cards working, wireless--all without asking for help. I've had to learn about tarballs, CUPS, editing config files--all just to get a basic system working. I asked for the configuration file because I knew there had to be one. Still, this synaptic driver problem is a bear. Changing the settings in xorg.conf didn't do it. I even tried to kill the touchpad by #-ing out the offending description. The instructions for installing the latest driver indicate I've got to "configure the kernel" and "compile evdev as a module." More googling.
Is it safe to assume you rebooted after making the changes in xorg.conf? (Or restarted X, if you know how to do that? Logging out and getting back to the graphical login manager won't necessarily do that, depending on your specific setup.)
Also, unless you re-compile the synpatics driver and replace the one from your distro, things won't work. If you want, I can put my synaptics_drv.o on a server for you to d/l, but compiling your own may be a better way to go.
I don't see why evdev has to be compiled as a module; were it compiled into the kernel, that should be OK. But in any case, you can see if an evdev module has been loaded by typing
lsmod | grep evdev
and seeing if it reports something like
evdev 9856 1
If it does, your evdev module is loaded. If not, try
(as root)
modprobe evdev
and if it says (something like)
FATAL: Module evdev not found.
then you will have to re-compile your kernel.
If it doesn't complain, then the grep command should now list the evdev module.
Now the trick is to make sure evdev is loaded BEFORE X starts when your system boots. That depends on your distro.
Also, do you have a file called /var/log/Xorg.0.log? If so, look through it and see if it has a line something like
Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/synaptics_drv.o
to make use that your X module got loaded.
You might also see if there are any lines in that file starting with "(WW)" or "(EE)" (warning and error messages) that might illuminate the problem a bit.
Last time I was in those parts was during the WAY celebrations, 1979 I think? Helped out at Perry Lakes Stadium west of the city at the Scout Jamboree (WAYJAM). I visited from Woomera, where I worked 1977 to 1980.
I lived at Bunbury, and worked at the TV station there (BTW3/GSW9) for several years in the late 60s, when it first went on air.
Had a ham radio buddy who lived at Denmark; VK6NL, maybe his name was Noel. My callsign was VK5DQ.
Small world
Last edited by eagles-lair; 05-18-2006 at 07:39 AM.
"Also, unless you re-compile the synpatics driver and replace the one from your distro, things won't work. If you want, I can put my synaptics_drv.o on a server for you to d/l, but compiling your own may be a better way to go."
The instructions with the driver I downloaded seem contradictory. The Readme says:
How do I compile the driver?
Beginning with version 0.11.8, it should be possible to compile
the driver by simply running "make". This will compile a driver
for XFree86 4.2.x, which will also work for 4.3.x versions of
XFree86.
But the Install says:
For use with kernel 2.6.x you need to enable synaptics touchpad
support when configuring the kernel (CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2). You also
need support for the evdev interface (CONFIG_INPUT_EVDEV). If you
compile evdev as a module, make sure it is loaded before starting
the X server, as it will not be auto-loaded.
So either I just run "make" and the thing should compile itself, or I have to configure the kernel and compile evdev as a module. As someone who is brand new to all this, I'm a lot nervous about messing with the kernel. BTW, Grepping evdev yields no response, not even an error message.
I bit the bullet and just ran "make" and "make install" without bothering with the kernel or evdev. After editing xorg.conf with the recommended ALPs settings, and changing the two tap settings to "0," the problem seems to be solved. Again, thanks to all who helped. As with most of the headaches I've encountered getting this laptop running on Linux, I've discovered that the solution is fairly simple once I knew where to look. And, yes, the entire process has been educational.
At the same time, I've discovered that this problem with mousepad tapping is not rare at all. I would imagine there should be something included in most FAQs for setting up laptops, along with a detailed how-to.
"Also, unless you re-compile the synpatics driver and replace the one from your distro, things won't work. If you want, I can put my synaptics_drv.o on a server for you to d/l, but compiling your own may be a better way to go."
The instructions with the driver I downloaded seem contradictory. The Readme says:
How do I compile the driver?
Beginning with version 0.11.8, it should be possible to compile
the driver by simply running "make". This will compile a driver
for XFree86 4.2.x, which will also work for 4.3.x versions of
XFree86.
But the Install says:
For use with kernel 2.6.x you need to enable synaptics touchpad
support when configuring the kernel (CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2). You also
need support for the evdev interface (CONFIG_INPUT_EVDEV). If you
compile evdev as a module, make sure it is loaded before starting
the X server, as it will not be auto-loaded.
So either I just run "make" and the thing should compile itself, or I have to configure the kernel and compile evdev as a module. As someone who is brand new to all this, I'm a lot nervous about messing with the kernel. BTW, Grepping evdev yields no response, not even an error message.
First, I'm glad to see that you say it works now.
Second, I'll point out that those instructions aren't so much contradictory as (perhaps) poorly written. When it says that to *compile* the driver all you have to do is run "make", that's completely true, as you discovered.
However, just because you have compiled something doesn't mean that you don't need to do additional work to integrate it with your system. That's what the INSTALL instructions were going on about. Evidently, the kernel on your system already had the required options (which makes sense, since you were (presumably) replacing an older version of the synaptics driver (which presumably needed evdev) with your newer and more wonderful version).
The instructions in INSTALL seem to be written for someone who is starting from square one, but your system evidently was further along than that.
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing
Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute
content, let us know.
