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Old 04-26-2008, 07:41 AM   #1
sniff
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Asus M3N-HT Deluxe AMD Nvidia 780a Motherboard


Hello,

So I have not a new motherboard to play with. Its one of the new nvidia 780a motherboards for the AMD cpus.

I've been having problems with it. First off is doesn't seems to work with the new AMD Phenom processors. These problems are most likely due to bios issues, so we will see what happens with that.

However, it doesn't play well at all with Linux. I am yet to manage to get a Linux install disk to see the hard drives. The process seems to come to a halt trying to load the ahci drivers. This occurs when tried Opensuse 10.3.

Opensuse 11 cannot detect the hard drives either, and the motherboard goes mad (lots of beeping) when it trys to start the graphics drivers.

Ubuntu 8.04 RC1 live cd starts but it doesn't detech the hard drives and the ethernet card is not correctly started.

So, it looks like the board is unfriendy to Linux, does anyone have any suggestions of how to get things working?

Vista works fine sadly, and I have a RMA to send it back depending on if the quad-core issues look to be permanent.

There is very little on the net about this board so I am open to any suggestions.

Phil
 
Old 04-26-2008, 11:51 AM   #2
onebuck
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Hi,

How do you have the BIOS setup for the drives?
 
Old 04-26-2008, 12:26 PM   #3
sniff
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I have tried, IDE, and AHCI, the only other option was RAID but as I want data(home) off one of the drives I didn't try this option.
 
Old 04-27-2008, 03:07 AM   #4
avdgeijn
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Hi Sniff,

Are you using IDE or SATA disks.
What is the system doing when you only connect SATA disks.

Regards,

Andre
 
Old 04-27-2008, 05:04 AM   #5
sniff
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SATA disks, which the bios allows to be used in IDE mode, AHCI mode or RAID mode. I tried IDE and AHCI, neither of which allow the disks to be found by Linux installs. I'm ringing Asus tomorrow to get to the bottom of the bios problems with AM2+ CPU's, along with the board not recovering from Windows suspend and a raft of other problems (and the disappearing bios update). I will ask if they have ever got Linux working on it, I'm not holding out much hope.
 
Old 04-28-2008, 12:11 PM   #6
avdgeijn
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Hi Sniff,

Can it be that it has to do with the raid controllers or so, try something with 'nodmraid', see: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archiv.../t-171478.html

Although this is for fedora, the linux kernel has sometimes some issues with dedicated sata chips.

Regards

Andre
 
Old 04-28-2008, 02:57 PM   #7
sniff
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Hello,

Thanks, avdgeijn, although nodmraid was not the solution it lead me down the path to the real solution. Which is...

pci=nomsi kernel option at boot!

Opensuse 10.3 is installing as we speak! This still hasn't solved my problems with the Phenom chips but it looks like thats BIOS, and now at least I'm not stuck with Vista!

I will update if this solves problems with ethernet...
 
Old 04-29-2008, 08:35 AM   #8
sniff
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Ethernet doesn't work, nor do the newest nvidia drivers talk to the on-board graphics... But at least I have an OS.
 
Old 04-30-2008, 09:42 PM   #9
mdjenkins
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I'm currently running Gentoo on this same board.
For ethernet I'm using the forcedeth module included with the kernel.
For graphics I went to nvidia's ftp server and downloaded the Beta 173.08 driver. It does look like they recently uploaded an rc1 for the 171.06 driver which I may switch too. It's been a while since I played with Yast but I don't believe any precompied distro currently has a driver higher than the 169.x in their repository.
AFAIK the 169 driver doesn't support any chip higher than family 8 and the on board chip is a family 9 supporting the new hybrid sli.

edit to add:
I'm not sure what you mean by the Phenom not being supported:

Code:
~ $ cat /proc/cpuinfo 
processor	: 0
vendor_id	: AuthenticAMD
cpu family	: 16
model		: 2
model name	: AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor
stepping	: 2
cpu MHz		: 2300.000
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 4
core id		: 0
cpu cores	: 4
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 5
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow constant_tsc rep_good pni cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs
bogomips	: 4603.44
TLB size	: 1024 4K pages
clflush size	: 64
cache_alignment	: 64
address sizes	: 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps hwpstate

processor	: 1
vendor_id	: AuthenticAMD
cpu family	: 16
model		: 2
model name	: AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor
stepping	: 2
cpu MHz		: 2300.000
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 4
core id		: 1
cpu cores	: 4
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 5
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow constant_tsc rep_good pni cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs
bogomips	: 4599.97
TLB size	: 1024 4K pages
clflush size	: 64
cache_alignment	: 64
address sizes	: 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps hwpstate

processor	: 2
vendor_id	: AuthenticAMD
cpu family	: 16
model		: 2
model name	: AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor
stepping	: 2
cpu MHz		: 2300.000
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 4
core id		: 2
cpu cores	: 4
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 5
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow constant_tsc rep_good pni cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs
bogomips	: 4599.97
TLB size	: 1024 4K pages
clflush size	: 64
cache_alignment	: 64
address sizes	: 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps hwpstate

processor	: 3
vendor_id	: AuthenticAMD
cpu family	: 16
model		: 2
model name	: AMD Phenom(tm) 9600 Quad-Core Processor
stepping	: 2
cpu MHz		: 2300.000
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 4
core id		: 3
cpu cores	: 4
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 5
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow constant_tsc rep_good pni cx16 popcnt lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs
bogomips	: 4599.97
TLB size	: 1024 4K pages
clflush size	: 64
cache_alignment	: 64
address sizes	: 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
power management: ts ttp tm stc 100mhzsteps hwpstate

Last edited by mdjenkins; 04-30-2008 at 09:50 PM.
 
Old 04-30-2008, 09:44 PM   #10
mdjenkins
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Now that I've made a post I can give you a few links to nvidia's ftp site.
x86 if you're running 32-bit, x86_64 if you're running 64-bit

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64
ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86
 
Old 05-01-2008, 12:39 AM   #11
Electro
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From what I read on the internet (actually a reviewer at newegg.com), you need at least kernel version 2.6.23 or higher to get Atheros 1 Gb NIC to work. Using the most recent stable kernel version might help make the computer work better. The on-board sound card will be an issue for your motherboard.

I think the motherboard GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H will be a better choice to be used in Linux and it is a lot cheaper.

I strongly recommend AMD processor model 9650 instead of 9600 because the TLB bug is fixed and performs better.

Gentoo is better for new and old hardware.
 
Old 05-01-2008, 08:20 AM   #12
mdjenkins
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Newegg still doesn't have the M3N-HT so I'm none too sure which board you were looking at when a reviewer stated that it was an Atheros 1GB. The forcedeth driver has also been mainline for a few years.
Code:
~ $ sudo lspci -v -s 00:0a.0
00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation Unknown device 0760 (rev a2)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 82e7
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 21
	Memory at fe02b000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	I/O ports at d800 [size=8]
	Memory at fe02a000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256]
	Memory at fe029000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2
	Capabilities: [50] Message Signalled Interrupts: Mask+ 64bit+ Queue=0/4 Enable-
	Capabilities: [6c] HyperTransport: MSI Mapping Enable- Fixed+
	Kernel driver in use: forcedeth
	Kernel modules: forcedeth
Sound wasn't an issue at all. Just like every other onboard device I've encountered in the past year; modprobe snd_hda_intel got the sound working without so much as a please.

I went with the 9600 because in December it was either that or the 9500 (I couldn't find a 9700). I am thinking about selling the 9600 with the GA-MA790FX-DQ6 the M3N-HT is replacing and picking up a 9850 to replace it. Also, I'm sure the GA-MA78G-DS3H is an exceptional board for those interested in playing with ATi graphics drivers but I'm more interested an sli platform over the crossfire spider platform.

Edit to add:
If you're referring to the Phenom incompatibility issue where the 9850 and 9750 does not work with certain MoBos, my understanding is that's in reference to the Amd 780G not the nForce 780a.

Last edited by mdjenkins; 05-01-2008 at 09:07 AM.
 
Old 05-02-2008, 12:42 AM   #13
Electro
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Quote:
If you're referring to the Phenom incompatibility issue where the 9850 and 9750 does not work with certain MoBos, my understanding is that's in reference to the Amd 780G not the nForce 780a.
You completely miss my post. I am saying about that the B3 revision processor that does not have the TLB bug. Also it performs better. There should be no incompatibility problems with the B3 revision.


Quote:
Newegg still doesn't have the M3N-HT so I'm none too sure which board you were looking at when a reviewer stated that it was an Atheros 1GB. The forcedeth driver has also been mainline for a few years.
I found it on customer's review for ECS A780GM-A motherboard at newegg.com. It has the same Ethernet NIC as the ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe.


IMHO, SLI is unstable and a new nVidia card model is around the corner soon (probably in August or November of 2008) that will beat two GeForce8 8800 Ultra easily. If I do get GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H, I do not expect any 3D and XVideo (I prefer OpenGL for video playback) or even a working display, but it works after reading the review at phoronix.com. I am not in Crossfire that you assume. I am into low electricity consumption which ATI motherboard chipsets in the past and present have provided. nVidia has not yet provided evidence that they care for low energy consumption.

If I do get an AMD system right now, I will be getting the following items.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...asp?ID=6350185

My plan with setup (if I do get it) is wait for the new nVidia video card comes out. If it is supported in Linux, get it after a few months later. While waiting, I can just use that setup as is.

I do think people that buy the fastest AMD Phenom processor right now will soon be a waste. I think the Bulldozer core will be a better buying decision. If it uses the AM2+ socket, it will definitely be a good buying decision for high performance. I think right now, AMD Phenom processors are an alternative to Intel's Celeron processors that includes ECC support.
 
Old 05-02-2008, 10:13 AM   #14
mdjenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electro View Post
You completely miss my post. I am saying about that the B3 revision processor that does not have the TLB bug. Also it performs better. There should be no incompatibility problems with the B3 revision.
The way I understand it the B3 chips (9550, 9750 and 9850) with the possible exception of the 9550 are not compatible with the Amd 780G chipset which is used by the boards you are recommending. The M3N-HT, which uses the nForce 780a, does not have these incompatabilities

Quote:
I found it on customer's review for ECS A780GM-A motherboard at newegg.com. It has the same Ethernet NIC as the ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe.
lspci disagrees...

Quote:
IMHO, SLI is unstable and a new nVidia card model is around the corner soon (probably in August or November of 2008) that will beat two GeForce8 8800 Ultra easily. If I do get GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H, I do not expect any 3D and XVideo (I prefer OpenGL for video playback) or even a working display, but it works after reading the review at phoronix.com. I am not in Crossfire that you assume. I am into low electricity consumption which ATI motherboard chipsets in the past and present have provided. nVidia has not yet provided evidence that they care for low energy consumption.
I made no assumptions about your setup. I only stated that the 780a is the choice for those that prefer sli over crossfire which is supported by the low performance 780G and high performance 790FX.

As for nVidia's concern over power consumption you would be best advised to look into their Hybrid Sli solutions and why they are including a discrete graphics chip on board for their high end chipsets http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html. Also seeing as both the 9750 and 9850 Phenoms draw 50 more watts over the other Phenoms, I wouldn't recommend running those chips in a power concious environment. The TLB errata can mostly be handled by BIOS and further in software. Still, I think this discussion has solidified my decision to sell my 9600 with my 790FX board and pick-up a 9850.

As for newer cards comming out, that's a constant. So far I've not encountered stability issues running dual GeForce 9600 in sli with the 171 drivers (the 173 is still a little too buggy). From the tests I've read, dual 9600s outperforms dual 8800s.

Quote:
My plan with setup (if I do get it) is wait for the new nVidia video card comes out. If it is supported in Linux, get it after a few months later. While waiting, I can just use that setup as is.
To take advantage of the power saving features of Hybrid sli I would recommend you give the nForce chipset a look over. You might loose the power saving features of the Hybrid crossfire in the 780G if you run it with a GeForce graphics card.

Quote:
I do think people that buy the fastest AMD Phenom processor right now will soon be a waste. I think the Bulldozer core will be a better buying decision. If it uses the AM2+ socket, it will definitely be a good buying decision for high performance. I think right now, AMD Phenom processors are an alternative to Intel's Celeron processors that includes ECC support.
The earliest tests on the Phenoms versus the core 2 quads showed that on precompiled un-optimised code the Phenom out paces the Core 2 quad when run at equal clock speeds. The beautiful thing about running Linux is we don't need to run precompiled code and we can optimise for the family-10 amd chips and thus can unlock the chip's potential without overclocking. The drawback is most of the optimizations aren't really available until you switch to gcc 4.3. Looking to the future, as more distros move away from 4.1 to 4.2 and eventually 4.3 the performance of these chips will really start to shine as we can start talking about lower number of clocks per instruction instead of shorter clock periods.

As for waiting on the Bulldozer, I seem to recall reading those chips are initially going to support the AM2+ but are being designed specifically for the AM3. In which case I would be looking at another MoBo upgrade at some time in the undefined future.
 
Old 05-02-2008, 05:50 PM   #15
Electro
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Quote:
The way I understand it the B3 chips (9550, 9750 and 9850) with the possible exception of the 9550 are not compatible with the Amd 780G chipset which is used by the boards you are recommending. The M3N-HT, which uses the nForce 780a, does not have these incompatabilities
That is not true. The limits is the motherboard manufacture not the chipset. Mainboard manufactures see the 780G chipset as a HTPC for low TDP processors. The chipset AMD 780G can handle high power processors, but it depends on the motherboard manufacture. Same goes true with nVidia's nForce 730/8400 chipset and Intel's integrated chipsets. With some modifications to the power supply circuitry on the motherboard, these chipsets can handle very high TDP processors.

I am still in the green than in the blue with the chosen components.

Quote:
I made no assumptions about your setup. I only stated that the 780a is the choice for those that prefer sli over crossfire which is supported by the low performance 780G and high performance 790FX.

As for nVidia's concern over power consumption you would be best advised to look into their Hybrid Sli solutions and why they are including a discrete graphics chip on board for their high end chipsets http://www.nvidia.com/object/hybrid_sli.html. Also seeing as both the 9750 and 9850 Phenoms draw 50 more watts over the other Phenoms, I wouldn't recommend running those chips in a power concious environment. The TLB errata can mostly be handled by BIOS and further in software. Still, I think this discussion has solidified my decision to sell my 9600 with my 790FX board and pick-up a 9850.

As for newer cards comming out, that's a constant. So far I've not encountered stability issues running dual GeForce 9600 in sli with the 171 drivers (the 173 is still a little too buggy). From the tests I've read, dual 9600s outperforms dual 8800s.
Handling the TLB bug in the BIOS will definitely reduce processor performance. What AMD did in the B3 stepping is completely fix it and provide additional boost in performance.

SLI or Crossfire is for bragging rights. I prefer one video card for all the graphics rendering. That is why I selected the AMD 780G. I can use it until the GT200 or whatever name nVidia will be calling its next generation video card. Again this is only if I get the components.

The GeForce9 is just GeForce8 with more uniform shaders enabled. I just see GeForce9 as mistake than a better board.

IMHO, using two or more video cards to process graphics is a waste.

Your obsession of SLI or Crossfire is giving you the wrong idea. I am not going for hybrid SLI and not going for hybrid Crossfire and I an not going for SLI or Crossfire. I am going for low power consumption setup that includes ECC memory that can also include two or more video cards at once for a total of six displays. I prefer ECC memory for computers because it minimizes data corruption.


The lspci utility is known to tell a lie. I prefer to use lshw. Both the ECS and the ASUS board uses the same Ethernet controller, but they are connected differently (I think). The ECS board probably connects the Ethernet controller directly to the PCIe bus while the ASUS probably hook up the Ethernet controller to the PHY link. It is hard to say with out the documentation.


BTW, Sorry sniff that we went off topic.
 
  


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