WLinux (any discussion points of interest)
 

Hello, All

Here...

https://betanews.com/2018/12/17/wlin...ux-windows-10/

"WLinux"? Windows Linux? 'Normally $99.99. Release for $4.99' ?

I remember when Microsoft did that with their Access database when they released it. It was "on special" for $79 (from memory).

At the time I was associated with a group developing a $600,000 database for their workplace data management, and suggested they take a look at Access as an alternative for $79 - which could do everything they were doing. (Well; did I get a rocket for suggesting that one!)

Is that Linux a credible alternative (with huge Support backing) to real Linux? Perhaps, put a little differently: "Is that Linux going to be a credible alternative to real Linux?".

Regards,

boombaby
_

"Windows Linux? 'Normally $99.99. Release for $4.99", "$4.99", :p Even that's generous...

But seriously, I'm not quite sure I understand your question... :confused:

Hello, jsbjsb001

It goes a bit like this.

For as long as I can remember in Linux, Linuxers have been seeking to (generally) tear strips off Windows (think "bloatware" et al) and, in recent times, turn Linux into a credible alternative to Windows. While they (Linuxers) have become pretty adept at the former, I think they have also been very succesful in building a really "sweet", GUI-oriented, workhorse system. There are several enterprise server systems, but desktops (aka windows) are now really starting to shine too.

I am totally weaned off Windows. (Well, off Windows but not "GUI".) In terms of really-good working desktops I use MX Linux regularly. MX Linux (a Debian derivative) has all sorts of software available - practical (for home and business usage), and alternative and specialist stuff too.

Which brings me back to the WLinux thing. It appears to be a Linux offering for use directly under/with MS-Windows. So it could become pretty successful, and successful at stopping migration away from Windows to real Linux.

[The "Support" thing refers to Microsoft having all the professional inputs to iron out glitches and problems quickly and efficiently.]

So, I am pondering the future of Linux-under-Windows as a viable Linux offering which could compete with real Linux. That's all.

Any thoughts or comments about it from others being welcome.


Regards,

boombaby
_

Member Response
 

Hi,

My opinion is Microsoft is piggy backing Linux to open doors to potential customers. Do I trust this? NO!!!

History shows us that Microsoft only does something to help Microsoft.

Have fun & enjoy!
:hattip:

Are you talking about "Microsoft [apparently] loves Linux" ?

If so, they NEED to prove it by their actions before I'll ever believe them, sorry. I'm with onebuck!

Member Response
 

Hi,

Microsoft's earlier tactics; You are fooling yourself if you think Microsoft continues support or help to create UEFI for everyone's security.

Have fun & enjoy Gnu/Linux!
:hattip:

In addition, Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) as I understand is similar to wine i.e. it provides a compatibility layer between linux and windows system calls. I believe Ubuntu was the first distribution that ran via WSL.

Many people consider a computer as a just tool and don't care how it or an operating system works and using wlinux might be an easy way for developers to create cross platform applications without dealing with dual booting or other virtual environments.

As the PC business continues to decline Microsoft is trying to expand there cloud market share...

You forgot; Embrace, Extend, Extinguish!

Snakes!

Member Response
 

Hi,

Yes, I forgot about that earlier trouble. Speaking about early history then members may want to search on IBM DOS vs MS DOS. Another would be Microsoft DOS theft and CP/M that brought about some real controversy at the time. Bill Gates still cannot answer the '$' question as per Gary's request. Interesting read; https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/...e-heart-of-dos

Forensics have helped to show some things that Microsoft has done to gain for the company but we will never know if indeed Microsoft/Bill Gates stole from DRI/Gary Kildall since most of the story is muddled by time and gossip. Gary's mysterious death will not allow us to hear the whole story from him.

I will not ever trust Microsoft and as I do know it's history. Along with their attempts to hide everything. $$$ to lawyers can do some very helpful things to hide behind.

Hope this helps.
Have fun & enjoy Gnu/Linux!
:hattip:

Well, I don't think it would compete with Linux, but I can see some benefits to some users provided some criteria are met. The first criterion being microsoft releasing all their software under the GPL as a good will gesture; unless they do this it isn't worth anybody's time to even think about going to any effort to consider it.

In the DOS 3.x days microsoft was thoroughly untrustworthy and they seem to have gotten worse over time. I see this move on their part as an act of desperation, and desperate organisations are very dangerous.

I use Win rarely, but when WSL was first announced I installed it - quite handy for me as all I wanted was bash, awk, perl so I didn't have to try and get powershell to do what I wanted. Haven't looked at it since it went into the store.

Interesting that Canonical did all the conversion work - make a right pair them and M$osft.

So this thread was linked on Twitter and came across in my TweetDeck.

My name is Hayden Barnes and I am the founder of Whitewater Foundry, the open source startup behind WLinux, WLinux Enterprise, and the Fedora Remix for WSL.

Allow me to clarify a few things raised in the thread.

WLinux is not sponsored by Microsoft, we are an open-source startup spread over the globe, and most of us still have other jobs or are in school. We are in the Microsoft Partner Network but we are also in the Red Hat Business Partners program. It's a weird time.

Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) is an optional layer in Windows 10 that executes Linux ELF binaries in real-time by translating Linux syscalls to Windows syscalls. You can install various distros (including OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Debian, Kali, Fedora Remix) from the Microsoft Store or using third-party tools to install them manually. When you open the distro app you are dropped at your shell of choice. It is more responsive and less resource intensive than a VM but has some other trade-offs, like no hardware support and some things like ebtables just aren't going to work.

WLinux is our primary consumer product, a Debian derivative distro that is built on and customized nicely for WSL. WLinux includes custom packages, configuration defaults tweaked for WSL, and wlinux-setup, a handy tool for installing development environments and configuring optional WSL-specific settings. It is currently on sale for $10 USD, normally $20 USD.

WLinux Enterprise is our enterprise custom solution, created in response to demand from enterprise customers. It is compatible with RHEL, CentOS, Scientific Linux, and Fedora. It is a custom solution for enterprise deployments, is not intended for end users, and is priced for enterprise-level support. Nonetheless we make a self-support individual demo version, built with Scientific Linux, available highly discounted on the Store for enthusiasts. It does not contain any of the custom packages or optimizations contained in WLinux. We recommend enterprise customers use Red Hat Enterprise Linux with WLinux Enterprise for their deployments and verify they have the applicable licenses or help them obtain them.

We also sponsor Fedora Remix for WSL, the only Fedora-based distro for WSL on the Microsoft Store. It is based on the underlying code from WLinux Enterprise and was created through the Fedora Remix program.

All of our code is open-source, most under MIT, and routine development happens in public on GitHub.

We are not trying to prevent people from switching to desktop Linux. I have heard from folks who started on WSL and then moved to desktop Linux. Some people are just stuck using Windows. We are trying to serve as an entry-point to Linux, and not just desktop Linux but server, IoT, and broader open source eco-system as well. We fill a niche on the spectrum that includes dual-booting, Docker, VMs, and cloud shell accounts. WSL does allow you to do some unique nifty cross-platform things, e.g. it is helpful to be able to automate Windows tasks in bash or run a local Apache Cassandra server to test against.

I would be happy to answer questions you have. You can reach us on Twitter at WLinuxApp. You can also e-mail me directly at hayden@whitewaterfoundry.com.

Wow!

Thanks for the info contribution, sirredbeard.

Not being in the "Microsoft Partner Network" I wouldn't know how "interactions" happen.

* Can you call on Microsoft for any "support" stuff (eg tips; prof. guidance; actual time contribution; etc.) ?

* Does Microsoft "embed" stuff/changes you want into their part of the system?

* Does any of the Linux part you work with get "built into" their part?

I am interested in the interactions - because of potential effects on real Linux. (That's all.) There are a lot of good-hearted Linux people working on "their" real Linux development. So, to have a power-player (eg Microsoft) come in an roll over the top of them, wouldn't be... ..."fair". [I am NOT saying that is what is occurring. I am just interested.]

However, I am sure others would be interested in some of the "technical aspects" too. You made a very impressive contribution.


Kind Regards,

boombaby
_

From:
Features
A handful of unnecessary packages, such as systemd, have been removed from the base image to reduce image size and increase stability.

Can't be all bad then. ;)

Yes, to an extent.

Microsoft has a GitHub page for WSL where their engineers and the WSL community collaborate on technical issues.

They provide assistance on issues related to the WSL translation layer and WSL API.

Microsoft also provides WSL-related documentation that can be contributed to via GitHub pull requests, which we do.

Linux bugs we run into we have to solve on our own and when applicable we will work with upstream projects to patch those bugs.

In most cases those patches benefit all Linux users, not just WSL users, we just tend to find some first because we are an edge case.

Microsoft responds to UserVoice requests for WSL.

They are aware of the most popular user requests, such as support for CUDA from within WSL.

We don't have any particular special influence over features.

We actually find workarounds to give users what they want before Microsoft can, such as preliminary Docker support and Windows Explorer integration.

No, not directly.

We forked Microsoft's open source code that wraps a distribution and makes it installable in Windows.

They could borrow from our downstream but haven't yet, mostly because their wrapper is designed for Ubuntu.

Microsoft also cannot embed Linux code into Windows because then they would have to provide the source under the GPL.