I have come to the conclusion that using nothing but windows like system(i am referring to the constant use of gui's)is bad for the user.I would like to try and go a week without using any Xorg,X-11, or any other kind of gui,and still do everything I need to do. i.e check email,cruise the net,write articles,listen to music. What apps can be run from bash?I already know xmms is one application. What are other apps I could run from bash without a graphical server running? The reason I think that using window managers and desktop environments exclusively is bad is because doing everything from a window doesn't teach one structure. You know how things truly work in the Linux world. I don't know about everyone else here,but if I am to learn I must go back to the days of old and learn how the system really works. I remember the days of dos with win 3.11 overlayed on it.(much like todays Linux experience)and I have seen the ones who only use there system from windows 3.11 and not use anything from the command prompt. They are usually the most easily confused ones. The people who use both command line and win 3.11 are usually more adept at repairing there own system. While I have been using Linux for two years I have only been doing so under nothing but GUI's with barely any cli experience except from what I find under the system menu. This is wrong, I find myself just like the people back in the 80's who only use the win 3.11 gui,and be easily confused. I will didicate one week to nothing but using the command line. Thanks for reading this and Id like to hear from those already use command line only.
Till later,
CrypticLogic

I used to be in the "I don't need a namby-pamby GUI." camp. One does have a lot more control at command line (CLI) but for some simple tasks GUI is much easier to use.

That is to say while I sneer at folks who can't do CLI I don't see a reason to exclude GUI altogether. Some displays for monitoring are actually easier to read in a GUI than from the equivalent command line.

Of course I learned originally on DOS then later moved into UNIX at a time it didn't have X Windows (it was actually an add-on Product for the early SCO UNIX and we didn't buy it). I eschewed Windows when it first came out and didn't really use it until 3.11.

The funny thing to me is how many "UNIX" peripherals like disk arrays, tape libraries, etc... require one to use a Windows workstation for administration. I've even found some Client-Server based software that requires the Server one administers the UNIX clients to be on Windows.

Anyway knowing CLI is definitely one way to insure you'll be viewed positively if you interview for a job on Linux/UNIX. Typically in this career field folks that only know GUI are considered to not know anything.

I think your approach depends on what you want to manage via the

I think your approach depends on what you want to manage via the CLI. There are hundreds of thousands of programs that you can manage using GUI or CLI. Most often the GUI is limited so if you want to do advanced administration then you'll need to learn the CLI.

mpg123/321, links/lynx, pine, ... the programs are really endless, so you can do most of your tasks perfectly without a graphical user interface. Image editing/photo retouching, video editing and such might be slightly difficult, and in some aspects a graphical interface just makes point. I see no reason to torture yourself by deciding that you'll throw gui away for a week - what's the point in making your life more difficult? You can easily learn without making your life difficult. I always like to start these thought plays by reminding myself that computers are tools, something we need to use in order to get tasks done - not something we play around for what they are (I bet there are some real geeks who love to use computer just because of the fun of using a computer, but I'm referring here to the normal people who usually like the computer to do something for them - like fetch mail, not just run the damn application).

And if you want your task done, you usually want it done the fastest, easiest, "best" way. Some tasks suit better for command line, some for graphical user interface. Where ever graphical user interface makes the job faster and easier, it's definitely better. Where ever command line makes more sense, it's better. I've used Linux, Windows and DOS long enough to soon forget the beginning, and nowadays Mac a bit too; I've learned what I need to know and learn more every day, and I've never had to force myself to stick to command line only. Learning happens the easiest way when you like what you're doing - forcing yourself to do something usually makes it less nice, and you subconsciously reject what you're trying to learn. Instead if you love command line, there is no problem. But don't make the experience any worse than needed, rather try to make it fun. Use command line when you can, but if it stops your work, take the working route even if it means GUI. Later when you have time, re-think what didn't work and solve the situation - what program did you need for the task that you didn't find out, or how it worked.

The worst one can do to try teach somebody else something is to say "now you can't do this like you've always used to do, but you have to do it this new way, period". Just like the best way to get people hate Linux is to rip them off their Windows/Mac boxes, put them in front of a brand new Fedora and say they gotta love it - it just doesn't work. The same applies to many other "learning new" -situations.

But like I said in the beginning, the possibilities for console use are fairly big - if not almost endless. And most of the time command also works faster than graphical interfaces can, and surely eat up less resources than an X server (by the way, X11 and Xorg aren't two completely different things).

For several years I've been using a non-GUI system as my all-in-one Firewall/DNS/DHCP/HTTP/NTP/SMTP/POP3/SAMBA server box. On the client boxes, I've mainly used mutt, lynx, and workbone. But there are times when only a GUI app will do.

b0uncer has said all I would say.
Just some tips that may ease your time at the CLI.
cd ~ changes to your home directory.
cd /foo/bar/so* changes to /foo/bar/somelongname-with-a-version number.
You can highlight text on screen with the left mouse button and then paste with the middle mouse button. ( I really like this one. One of my tricks is to save occasionally used commands with complicated parameters in a text file, then cat the file to put the contents on screen, then copy and paste the output to execute the command.)
Aliases can save a lot of typing.

Be very careful with "rm -rf" !

Hi Cryptic,

I'm trying to do something similar to your approach. Because I've got BSD running in an old handheld (10 years old). There I just can use twm as windows manager. Things in bsd seems to be a little more difficult than linux, but I'm trying what I can get.

I found some info that could be interesting for you:

This LQ post: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...-a-gui-552808/
http://www.insidesocal.com/click/200...line_da_1.html
http://dosnlinux.wordpress.com/2007/05/

Regards,
Matías

I ditched gnome/kde for fluxbox a while back for much the same reason you're ditching X all together. It forced me to learn things I was unfamiliar with. I applaud your efforts. I was a total noob not that long ago, but now I can do all my administration from the cli.

It is especially useful to be able to do anything I want to do remotely via ssh. Not to mention when the nvidia drivers aren't compatible with new releases of X.

More than anything I love managing the file system from the cli. All that annoying locating, moving, and renaming, after you know what you're doing at the prompt it feels like the computer just does everything for you in comparison.


Here are some of my favorite things:


locate + grep
know them well and love them

mocp
console music player, I prefer this to gui players now

ssh + rtorrent + dtach
I love rtorrent to death, it's my favorite torrent manager. If you're connecting remotely via ssh start it with dtach. That way you can "detach" the curses gui from the shell session and resume it when you log in later from somewhere else or from home. This is also usefull for things like wget which is another absurdly useful tool you should get to know.

wget
having trouble downloading something? $ wget --continue --tries=inf --random-wait http://filelocation

bg + fg
you can't live on the command line without knowing how to put things in the foreground and background. This is how you control things after you ctrl+z them

cd -
go to last directory, more useful than you would think

lynx
cli browser, so useful it hurts

use the frame buffer
and add an entry to the kernel line in grub vga=0x314
you'll wonder why you used tiny default console for so long
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Framebuffer-HOWTO-5.html



Starting to get familiar? Time to customize your shell. It's fun

So good you're getting bored? Try to get mplayer to play through the frame buffer. Now that's entertainment


Hope this helped.
Just remember, starting X just to use a browser isn't giving up, it's research!

How true that is.. Checkpoint firewall is a great example. it installs on a Hardened Linux platform, yet the Console GUI only works properly in Windows..

Secure Computings Linux based Content filtering solution (Smartfilter) requires a Windows Server to handle the reporting ????

Yes, I too question that same issue.

just wondering what anyone thinks is the best way for learning...

i looked at "the linux bible" - it's really basic.

you think lfs is the best way to go?

Windows 3.1 in the 80's? I don't think so! It was released in April '92.
I did my CLAIT in September 1988 and didn't use a GUI until the company I worked for finally got Windows 3.11 in May 1994. So I reckon it's possible to work for more than a week from the command line, even these days. Get yourself a copy of the Linux Cookbook. It shows you how to do most things from the command line.

I've gone a week with nothing but the console while working at a colo facility getting new servers up and running. At the time I'd just use one of the servers there to check mail, browse web, etc. None of them had X installed as it's not needed for servers.

I think the gui/cli debate is pretty silly. In *nix, both are available; choose the one that suits you best for the task at hand.

I run a full-up KDE environment with compiz-fusion and all the toys. Why? Because I like it.

I like the GUI for those things I like it for. Things for which a visual representation is desirable. Things for which I would rather point and click than type in a string of command-line options. Things which I don't do often enough to become familiar with the process; browsing drop-down menus is easier then reading manpages.

At this moment, I have 6 bash windows open on various screens, pointed into various directories, and doing various of the things that I do (a lot of development). I hate GUI based development tools, except for text editors.

I am fluent in VI and emacs, but I would much rather do my work in kate. So I do. Even when (as now) I am remotely connected to a Fedora system via ssh, I am doing my development right here in kate, then sending my edited files to the system I am working on via scp (I have a bash macro constructed to do this).

Point is that both environments are readily available, and there are many options and choices for each environment. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Choose what suits you best for the task at hand, and go with it.

Of course, people coming from Windows won't understand the CLI and will (very incorrectly) view it as harder and less advanced. But then, that is part of the learning curve, now isn't it.

all the severs I support do not have x installed, I have never needed a gui to manage them. I do on my desktop though..