LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General
User Name
Password
Linux - General This Linux forum is for general Linux questions and discussion.
If it is Linux Related and doesn't seem to fit in any other forum then this is the place.

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 01-24-2013, 11:57 AM   #31
PrinceCruise
Member
 
Registered: Aug 2009
Location: /Universe/Earth/India/Pune
Distribution: Slackware64 14.1/Current, CentOS 6.5/7.0
Posts: 792

Rep: Reputation: Disabled

I really take offense to the comparison of coolies to Indians and Chinese in a post by OP, but I'll skip it for now, because we're having a nice discussion over here.
I can relate to it as I'm also fed up with the quality of 24*7 system support operations which are currently being outsourced in here. Of course right now all I can do is to improve my skills gradually and hunt for more suitable job which doesn't require me to work like a maniac round the clock.

Regards.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 05:39 PM   #32
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Yup. Lots of people fed up from all angles. I feel bad for the ones learning this stuff because in the future, it's only going to pay minimum wage. And those who won't have any skills will starve to death. That's the direction this world is going anyway. To those who "love" this system, well good for you, you know. I can't imagine what sitting for 50 years does to your prostate or your body or your eyes but yea I guess you could do alot of "virtual" stuff on the machine. I guess I'd rather do alot of physical stuff since I'm a human being and was designed with the earth to be in motion, exercise, eat healthy. Most people in this industry are unhealthy, scrawny or unhealthy and fat, and weak. Maybe some aren't due to some better genetics but that is evolving, or rather de-evolving slowly over time.

Well the problem with me is I am just anti-corporate by nature and don't want a job. I don't believe in interviews. In fact, I'm 30 and held about 2 real jobs my whole life and those weren't that long either. I also don't believe in school or degrees. Our world has been created by a group of the ruling class that own everything today: banks, govt, mil, corporations and we are supposed to be their slaves.

I'd rather offer my services in something like health, physical fitness, or fix physical things, but I do fix laptops on the side now, remove trojans, trivial stuff that makes me money on the side that doesn't have to do with selinux contexts or LVM, which is truly designated only in the corporate world. I'd rather have real world skills. I'd rather put my energy into something I can actually use when some corporate decides to let me go or when my contract ends every 6 months and I can't find a job anymore. Just seems like I can learn this stuff forever and just be on a treadmill to nowhere. All the EMFs must be horrible for the body. Guess I'm just too much of a naturalist to do this. I liked it at first since I came from Windows and it was fun while it lasted but I don't see myself involved with this for that much longer. I've been on selinux for a week now, and what I learned will all be obsolete soon since these videos that I paid for are from rhel4 and have different commands, or if it doesn't (and if I shouldn't worry myself with commands but rather IDEAS like FTP,NFS,SELINUX as a whole), something still changes within the context of the "idea" and I am forced to look up the latest command syntax for rhel6 or something else I may miss. And this just never ends because SELinux is like 0.000000001% of what I need to know which sucks because it requires alot of effort and time just to learn something like SELinux and master it (otherwise I'll get fired if there is a security breach or misconfiguration) and I just don't have another 30 years to learn this! And when redhat 9 comes out (i heard there was a redhat 9 before once, too, strange), all the commands will change, some new technology will come in, like a super selinux, where root can not even login anymore from a pseudo terminal or something really strange in a virtual environment. Everything has become layers upon layers of virtuosity. Ever see that movie, Virtuosity?
 
Old 01-24-2013, 05:52 PM   #33
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Just seems like even if I go learn how to do tiling or cement work, how long can that possibly take me to learn? a couple months and thats my skill for life. I can then offer this skill. Not only that, but I get a hell of a workout with cement work. Guess I should start doing that now.
 
Old 01-24-2013, 11:21 PM   #34
Kallaste
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2011
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 344

Rep: Reputation: 84
Rootaccess, man, if you are really this gung ho to go out and do some manual labor, then maybe you should go ahead. I mean, I personally would not want to spend hours every day doing backbreaking work outside in the hot California sun, but I hear you bringing it up quite a bit, so maybe you would. If that is the case, then there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has to make their own decisions in life. Someone certainly has to do that kind of work, or the world would promptly fall apart.

The thing is, there is something my grandfather used to tell me. He said that there are two kinds of people in this world: those who are paid for what they do, and those who are paid for what they know. I have always known I wanted to be one of the latter. And you, friend, have invested two years of your ultimately precious life so that you could work towards the same thing. If that really--really--seems like a waste to you now, then you are right. You should move on. Admin work is not right for you. But if on the other hand you do honestly enjoy what you are doing here on some level (admittedly it doesn't sound like it), then perhaps you should try to take a step back and examine if perhaps this is a case of "the grass is always greener" syndrome.

Sure, exercise is fun and important, but manual labor on a day-to-day basis is hard. It is so hard, in fact, that for hundreds of thousands of years mankind has been trying to get away from it. I see you praising this lifestyle very frequently as "exercise," but that is not the kind of exercise that improves health or quality of life. On the contrary, that life tends to come with dirt, grime, skin cancer, premature aging, sprained muscles, a shortened lifespan, and a whole slew of back injuries.

I like to exercise and stay healthy as much as the next person. I hike, I run, I swim, and I eat a 70% vegetable diet and drink green smoothies from my Vita Mix blender. My heart rate is 70 after I climb four flights of stairs. But you could not pay me enough to trade away my option of making a living with my mind for the privilege of being OBLIGATED to get up in the morning and go swing a sledge hammer outside every day until I'm 60, no matter how hot it is or how much my joints ache or how many years I've been doing it without any end in sight. No way. I'll stick to hiking on the the weekends.

But hey, if you would honestly rather commit to a life of drudgery on a work crew than learn a new scripting language, then I would say you are right. That is indeed a clue that you should be throwing in the towel. But it is something only you can decide.

Last edited by Kallaste; 01-24-2013 at 11:31 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-25-2013, 01:35 AM   #35
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Great post! Well to make things fair, I really didn't mean hard labor everyday, no one really wants to do that. But I did cement work before and it was hard, but concrete finishers don't work that hard, they just kind of finish cement using some labor. Sometimes will have to carry the 90 pound cement bags and that was tough at first for me. But you know, I do agree about the two types of people your grandfather mentioned. I'm definitely the latter as well. I know a lot about other subjects too, not just computers. People are blown away with how much knowledge I have in health, politics, ww2, computers, science, etc. I also must disagree with something. In this field, I dont have to do admin work. You can start your own security business but that of course takes time and people/businesses may not trust you without references or a big "name" so to speak. I guess Kevin Mitnick's faux hacking techniques helped him start his business.

I like doing jobs for people. I don't mind too much what it is. I fix laptops on the side sometimes. But I don't mind training someone one day and doing computers the next. I just don't like a day to day job of the same boring sh!t. Admin work just seems to be repetitive, it isn't challenging to me. I just finished up SELinux now and just feel like I didn't learn enough because I didn't learn ALL of it and learning ALL of it would entail lots of time, about a year straight maybe. And mysql is the same thing. Admin work is also very fluid. For one company, you could be doing only DNS, for another, it's a little of everything making your job even worse, since its hard to know everything. That would mean alot of reading at work just to fix all the day to day issues. And a lot of reading by incompetent people. Hell, RH themselves is incompetent. Their workbooks for the red hat academy are a joke. I can learn more from their actual documentation but that is hard work since it changes about every few weeks. Everytime I turn around, a new release is out. I was in class just 3 months ago and the latest vesion was 6.1, now its 6.4 BETA and there is documentation for that. the LVM PDF from the documentation is like 200 pages on just that.

Unfortunately, I agree with you and after thinking about it again today, I guess I'm just going to have to stick with this as I really don't think its worth learning another skill as I've invested alot of time and the most basic things I work with on a day to day basis seem like hell to the public which sort of makes me feel good about myself as I wanted to do something that keeps me apart from others, and keeps my salary high. There are other options in this game besides being a sysadmin.

I guess I'll just have to exercise 3 TIMES as much as a regular person since I have to sit or stand inactively for hours and hours. I make sure I don't sit much as I'm not going to develop prostate cancer so I just stand. I do my deadlifts and rows and back work to keep my back straight as to not develop kyphosis. I have a lazy cousin in his 30s with terrible posture. Severe kyphosis and lordosis. Just scares me to think I can look like that if I just sat all day like he does. I havent swam in a while but I did just read it lengthens you out and is good cardio. I want to stop squatting as I think it may make my spine compressed.

Thanks for the post.

Last edited by rootaccess; 01-25-2013 at 01:36 AM.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 02:18 AM   #36
chrism01
Guru
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney
Distribution: Centos 6.6, Centos 5.10
Posts: 16,324

Rep: Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041
Remember its not the quantity of your exercise, its the quality. 3 - 4 good quality sessions a week (at least for weights) is plenty. Keep it short/sharp/intense ie < 1hr. In fact aim for 45 mins of concentrated stuff, then get out.
Other days you could walk, swim, whatever just to help recovery/stay loose.
Your body isn't a machine, it needs recovery time.
Take at least one day a week off.

As for SysAdmin; you don't need to know everything and you can't (as you've discovered). What companies expect is you know the core cli cmds and the core concepts, and know here to look up the details and which is the best tool for a given problem.
You may have a few areas you know really well, but in a team each Admin usually is the go to guy for a given area.

Take this for example http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_boo...ion/index.html. You should recognise each of the major Chapter headings, but the finer points you can lookup as needed.

Note that many (especially technical) careers have a turnover in technology/technique, its just that IT is the worst (that's what we tell everyone ).
It is true that if you're not prepared to be potentially learning new stuff almost continually, maybe IT isn't for you. It's not for everyone; its your mindset, not brainpower that decides.

Earlier you said you don't like jobs/working for other people; could be tricky unless you live in the mountains as a hermit.
If you really mean it, start your own company. Alternately just do contract work, which enables you to concentrate on the work and (more or less) ignore the politics etc.

Life IS a compromise if you interact with other people at all, and even if you don't eg the weather can make you change your plans.

Anyway, hope that little lot helped a bit.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 02:36 AM   #37
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Good post. I always train hard, otherwise I won't even bother working out. I love that pain, the endorphins, the GH release, the mental clarity, strong heart, good blood flow, etc.

As far as that link, yes I am full aware of each of those topics, I just don't have the details on all of them, such as LDAP. But why did you send a link to RHEL5? Alot of stuff is extinct. That's really what I hate so much about this whole field. Everytime I bleed, sweat and cry to learn something, it changes!
 
Old 01-25-2013, 02:48 AM   #38
chrism01
Guru
 
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney
Distribution: Centos 6.6, Centos 5.10
Posts: 16,324

Rep: Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041Reputation: 2041
re RHEL:
1. that was just an example
2. RHEL5 is still active (RH supports RHEL5 & 6 ) http://www.redhat.com/security/updates/errata/
3. the concepts haven't changed
4. most of the info there is still accurate for RHEL6

If you want to see ALL the manuals, just shorten the link to www.linuxtopia.org; for an Admin I'd go with the relevant menu option ie http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_boo...ion_index.html


You're over-thinking this; you need to lay back a bit (mentally) , otherwise you'll stress yourself into an early grave.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 02:58 AM   #39
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrism01 View Post
re RHEL:
1. that was just an example
2. RHEL5 is still active (RH supports RHEL5 & 6 ) http://www.redhat.com/security/updates/errata/
3. the concepts haven't changed
4. most of the info there is still accurate for RHEL6

If you want to see ALL the manuals, just shorten the link to www.linuxtopia.org; for an Admin I'd go with the relevant menu option ie http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_boo...ion_index.html


You're over-thinking this; you need to lay back a bit (mentally) , otherwise you'll stress yourself into an early grave.
Maybe you're right. But I still need all this knowledge before someone even looks at me. I have 0 experience and I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to get my foot in the door if I have to intern, I'm too old for that, I have to have another job to support myself.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #40
foodown
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 609

Rep: Reputation: 218Reputation: 218Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
I feel bad for the ones learning this stuff because in the future, it's only going to pay minimum wage. And those who won't have any skills will starve to death.
You can't possibly know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
I can't imagine what sitting for 50 years does to your prostate or your body or your eyes but yea I guess you could do alot of "virtual" stuff on the machine. I guess I'd rather do alot of physical stuff since I'm a human being and was designed with the earth to be in motion, exercise, eat healthy.
Having a job that doesn't directly involve physical labor doesn't preclude one from any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
Well the problem with me is I am just anti-corporate by nature and don't want a job.
Being anti-corporate and not wanting a job are two completely different things. One is a sort of political conviction and the other is laziness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
I'm 30 and held about 2 real jobs my whole life and those weren't that long either. I also don't believe in school or degrees. Our world has been created by a group of the ruling class that own everything today: banks, govt, mil, corporations and we are supposed to be their slaves.
I know a lot of people who rail on this sort of thing all day. It may very well be the case that a "ruling class" is in control of the world, but I'd challenge you to show me a point in recorded human history that this was not the case.

On an individual level, I've come to believe that some people hold on to "anger" about these kinds of things as a convenient internal excuse for not holding down a job and being productive, not supporting their families or even themselves, and then just sitting around smoking pot all day.

Where do you live, if you are 30 and don't work? Do you live with your parents? Do you live off of women? It sounds like a sad state of affairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
I'd rather offer my services in something like health, physical fitness, or fix physical things,
Then go out and do so; the world definitely needs more people offering such services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
I'd rather put my energy into something I can actually use when some corporate decides to let me go or when my contract ends every 6 months and I can't find a job anymore.
It sounds like you are avoiding a dreamworld work life that you have invented for yourself so that you can decide not to go there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
Just seems like I can learn this stuff forever and just be on a treadmill to nowhere.
I think that almost everyone replying to your thread here has explained that this is not the case. If you want to continue to tell yourself this, then that is fine, but I think that at this point you can save your energy form typing it again and again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post
All the EMFs must be horrible for the body. Guess I'm just too much of a naturalist to do this.
Again; this is something that you made up, then a self-aggrandizing explanation for why your failure to succeed is actually part of some arbitrarily-defined, imaginary moral quest.

If you want to rant, go start a blog; It is clear that you do not want our help, or are incapable of accepting it.

If you want to get into the industry as an admin, go get an entry-level NOC-type job, for which you are most likely qualified, and start building experience. If you don't, then go do something else already.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-25-2013, 11:22 AM   #41
Kallaste
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2011
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 344

Rep: Reputation: 84
You're welcome. For what it's worth, I think you are over thinking this as well. Or more accurately, I think you are looking at a lot of separate difficulties and seeing them as one big problem. You need to break these things down into manageable parts or everything will seem overwhelming and futile. A few points:

1. You are never too old to change or improve your life.

2. Yes, you have invested a lot of time in this, but if you don't love it, that investment will NEVER pay dividends. If you do, then it already is. Find what you love and do it. It really is that simple.

3. Try not to worry so much about the necessity for an internship, or the possibility of a low entry wage. These things are temporary and can be seen as hurdles to get past. Set your sights on a few years in the future when you WILL have the experience to make good money. That is where you need to get. And since time will keep marching forward as it inexorably does, you will indeed get there.

4. As others have pointed out, the resume issue is not as big as it might seem. When you have no experience, you focus more on your skills and knowledge. And to get that tiny bit of experience that gets you over the initial hurdle, you can do freelance work for any of the thousands of people with Wordpress sites already mentioned. Most of those people don't care one whit about your resume.

5. Try not to fixate on whether you are getting enough exercise. Eat right and stay active, but beyond that just accept your genetics. I seriously doubt you are going to look like your cousin as long as you take reasonable care of yourself--there is no need to go overboard. I don't think a half hour or so of cardio every day is unreasonable, but if you have to do more than three sessions of weight training per week to be where you want to be physically, then your expectations are not reasonable. It may be hard to accept, but there comes a point where you just have to let your body be where it naturally wants to be or you will never be happy.

6. Consider meditation to help with some of this stress. It works, and it is good for the brain. I follow neurology and have been meditating on and off for a long time, but I started doing a particular kind of meditation called Kirtan Kriya after I an article I read about a recent study that showed it improved cognitive function and increased neurogenesis and telomerase activity in Alzheimers patients:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120313145018.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootaccess View Post

I guess I'll just have to exercise 3 TIMES as much as a regular person since I have to sit or stand inactively for hours and hours. I make sure I don't sit much as I'm not going to develop prostate cancer so I just stand.
Or you could always work lying down.

Seriously, though, just take it easy and stop worrying so much. You are young, healthy, free, and have a roof over your head. Life can and should be good. If you do not see it that way, then adjust your attitude.

I wish you the best.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 11:35 AM   #42
Habitual
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2011
Distribution: Undecided
Posts: 3,618
Blog Entries: 1

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
I also have fear that soon enough this job will be replaced by coolies when even more technologies choke our world. That means all admins will be Chinese or Indian...
and you're a bigot too?

Sucks to be you.

Last edited by Habitual; 01-25-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: s/you/you're
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-25-2013, 02:15 PM   #43
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Great post BloomingNutria. Thanks for the words. They have been very helpful.
 
Old 01-25-2013, 05:24 PM   #44
landysaccount
Member
 
Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Dominican Republic
Distribution: Debian Squeeze
Posts: 177

Rep: Reputation: 17
I understand your frustration.

I spent a couple of years learning linux but, after coming across RH and noticing a difference on commands and the different configuration file location, I decided to just work on Debian. I primarily use Debian for all my server needs and feel comfortable using it. Also decided not to go crazy learning "everything".

I've never had a job in the industry all the work I do is for myself. I have a small WISP company and our servers are running on debian.

I don't think is a waste of time because you already posses that knowledge. Now, if you stop working or practicing then, you will forget it.

I suggest you try to become your own boss, come up with a small business doing consulting but, never be negative.
 
Old 01-26-2013, 01:31 AM   #45
rootaccess
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Posts: 211

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by landysaccount View Post
I understand your frustration.

I spent a couple of years learning linux but, after coming across RH and noticing a difference on commands and the different configuration file location, I decided to just work on Debian. I primarily use Debian for all my server needs and feel comfortable using it. Also decided not to go crazy learning "everything".

I've never had a job in the industry all the work I do is for myself. I have a small WISP company and our servers are running on debian.

I don't think is a waste of time because you already posses that knowledge. Now, if you stop working or practicing then, you will forget it.

I suggest you try to become your own boss, come up with a small business doing consulting but, never be negative.
This would be ideal. If I can come up with a small business doing consulting, I would. I guess that comes with time. I probably should be an admin for a couple years to gain even more knowledge, than branch off into doing my own thing. Good post.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Two Years of Bodhi Linux, Three Years of Blogging LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 11-28-2012 12:51 PM
LXer: 15 years of KDE e.V. - The Early Years LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 11-28-2012 06:40 AM
open discussion: Countless human hours wasted configuring Linux displays balsam Linux - General 52 06-03-2010 02:08 PM
TO be wasted or NOT to be wasted. ? my-unix-dream Linux - General 5 07-07-2004 08:50 AM
Wasted sector Kocil Linux - Hardware 4 05-16-2003 12:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration