Trying to get my school to switch to Linux
 

So, while sitting on the toilet about a half hour ago, I started seriously considering writing up a proposal to switch the computer systems at my school from proprietary to open source. Currently, all of the client computer are running either Windows Xp with Novell Netware crap installed on it or Mac OSX. Both of which are super locked down. It's a pain for them to get Xp and OSx working together well, I don't know what they're running on their servers. But it's gonna cost alotta cash to "upgrade" to Vista, so I was thinking...

If I can find a good FOSS client/server system, with a relatively easy way to transfer existing accounts over to the new system, I have enough stuff to through together a proposal. So yea, I don't have time to go into a lot of detail now, it's bed time. But anyway, to sum it up...

I'm looking for a good FOSS client server system.


PS. Sorry if this isn't real coherent, it's kinda late.

CentOS has become the new cool Linux to use as your server. I suppose its worth looking at.

Its coherent :)
Make a list of the existing hardware and details of the systems running and present it to a linux support company.
Most organizations seem to thing "free" is the same as "bug infested shareware crap". The Only way they will take notice is if it is presented to them by a professional company with detailed cost analysis of both the initial costs and the long term support costs.
These will clearly show that both in short and long term costs, FOSS kicks the crap out of proprietary while also being honest, unlike MS's "get the facts" collection of marsh gas.

Cheers,
Stan

Hey, thanks for the replies guys. I'll try to get the tech specs for the school network, but no promises. They'll probably think I'm trying to use the info maliciously.

Simple answer.. "IT Audit"

So what would be the best way to ask for the info? "Have you guys done an IT audit recently, and could I get a copy of it?"

Politics govern schools
 

Personally, I think you will end up banging your head against the wall. Most schools are a small part of a larger division, although you did not mention what kind of school this is. But the immediate staff usually have nothing to do with the computer systems, the board makes those decisions and are sometimes (usually) bound to certain obligations, like using a local computer firm to take care of their networks as the money does come from the community and the board has to work with the community and support the community.
Most times with schools, it is politics, not feasibility, that dictates how things are done.

You first have to ask yourself where is the money coming from?
That's who you have to deal with.

Could be like my current University. Your locked into a contract with MS for how ever many years. In other words your stuck, sorry.

That is exactly what I'm trying to point out, "business is business", in an industrialized nation or equal, schools have a business to run. And in the world of business "rub my back and I'll rub yours".:D

It's also the bottom line, if an IT company can halve the support budget while providing a better service your school will take notice. However, polotics is in there so it could take years to happen, and that is only after budget gets more attention than whatever 'perks' are on offer to stick with the system your using.
When was the system last upgraded? Are the staff always compaining about speed or crashes? Basically, is there anything that can justify you school accepting an offer from IT company to evaluate the system and propose a better deal than their existing system/support package.
From your point of view, can every piece of software you use in your studies be replaced by open source? Have other schools already made this change?
The best I can think of for your school to take notice is if they are approached by a professional company who can make a good offer and can show examples of their existing clients to prove it.
For this to happen, you will have to find a company qualified to do this and have enough information collected to justify to them that your school is worth contacting.
It will need to be a company that has experience within the education system, your best place to start would be with other schools who have already successfully made the change and find out what support companies they are using.
A company like this already has experience in dealing with vendor lock in and knows it could take years for anything to happen.
I don't think your idea is a waste of time, but you will have to be very patient with it. At least 6 months of fact finding before you can have anything in-depth enough to present to an IT company. Do it right though and you wont have to look for a job when you finish colage.
Another angle is from the bottom. Any piece of software you use in school that sucks and can be replaced by an open source program 100 times better suited? Something technical for preference, folks dealing with science or engineering are usually more open to alternatives.

Best of luck with it.
Stan

Well I think a great point to start out with would be to READ some of the case studies done by other schools, see how they have implemented Linux into their environments. look at how they have used projects such as LTSP, K12LTSP, DebianEdu/Skolelinux, Edubuntu, etc.. to leverage existing equipment instead of going out and purchasing all new VISTA capable hardware.

Google is a great place to start a simple search for "linux in education" and "Linux in Schools" returns a fair number of relevant results.

take a look at the info provided by some of the larger distros on the subject.. http://www.suse.com/uk/company/schools/sheet.pdf

Once you get a feel for what has been done in the area other than just.. OHH Linux is cool and will save us money, you can truly put together a presentation to show different ways the school can leverage the capabilities of Linux to their advantage. cite existing case studies, and conversions done by other schools that are similar to your own.

Also other than just Linux you can introduce open source software such as OpenOffice.org. it's free compared to the $60.00 a school pays per PC for MS Office.. and that Does add up quickly when you count the number of machines it's on. 60X100 = $6,000.00 cha-ching!

You could also start a Linux User Group at your school.. include students, teachers and faculty in the invites..

Spending too much time on the toilet has been known to be the birth place of some great ideas, but more often than not, it is the birth place of something you would rather not deal with when you get off the toilet and take a good hard look.

At the facts, I'm talking about. "Trying to get my school to switch to Linux".

wow, thanks so much guys, especially farslayer, Imma goin' googlin!

I will not expand on my experiences taking "good hard look"s at things I'd "rather not deal with" after getting off the toilet...:p

I pulled a groin or something a week and a half ago cutting/loading firewood, for the first time this morning I did not feel it as if it was cured, not after I wrote that though, I'm in pain again. I feel as though I literally split a gut.:mad:

Answer please?

And, uh, back on topic please Junior Hacker? Thanks.

Oh!
My apologies, yeah, let's stick to the topic.

One of the things that also needs to be taken into account are the users of the new system, while I think it's a great idea to go to open-source, new software means you need to retrain users. There may be a resistance to change, there is enough stress with education already on the students and teachers that a complete change may add fuel to the fire.

Well along with training people often forget that changing from one version of windows to another version of windows. or one version of MS Office to another also requires re-training.. They can't seem to leave things alone when they change versions. They can't leave the file formats alone either and you end up training users how to save their documents in the old formats so other users that are still onthe older versions can open them.

So I honestly think the whole retraining thing is blown out of proportion. You have that if you switch to Open Source or if you switch to new versions of MS products.. People just tend to get a bit funnier over a switch from MS Office to Open Office than f they switch from Office 97 to Office XP. but either weay there are a lot of differences in the menus etc..

Training does have to be considered, but for some reason people tend to forget the same issues when switching from one MS product to another MS product.

I work in a school and I have to admit the transition would be brutal for the schools. Getting it started would be near impossible... as quagmire and waste are the daily norm for most school IT departments. And the pain involved in getting all the Exchange stuff alone brought over would be a task worthy of a whole summer worth of overtime. Then you have contracts, hired IT workers who are absolutely worthless for their day to day tasks... and moreso for *nix.

Toss in about 1000 employees (give or take... based on the size of the district or school) and throw in "No Child Left Behind" and all the garbage associated with that... to keep the stress levels up. And then, finally, add a pinch of "weird peripherals" that you don't see anywhere but education and especially special education (accessible devices usually) for good measure and you've got a full on melt-down.

Of course, going slowly would alleviate a lot of this. But not all. Some of these teachers still haven't recovered from forced integration (yes it's a southern school) ... so I don't expect them to handle a switch to Linux well.

See, were all probably just runnin' at the mouth for nothing here, one thing I mentioned in a prior post is that "What kind of school is this?" "How many computers?" would give people a better grasp at what is required. For someone asking for help, there sure seems to ba a lack of information and participation.

No I don't think there is a lack on information or participation, everyone here has different levels of experience and skills and are offering advice as they see the relevance.

Regardless of the type of educational institute or the number of computers, there are still alot of things that need to be considered. Most educational institute or government departments like to see paperwork, be for any idea is to be looked at seriously they will want to see a feasibility report/study.

Since there is a lot of key stakeholders who need to be informed about such an idea, paperwork makes it much easier for eveyone involved to given the same information. Like most things it will come down to who pays the bills will have the final say.

While I think it would be a great idea to move all to linux, others who have to pay for it may not, unless they have something tangable that tells them otherwise.

Talk about Debian:

http://www.debian.org/social_contract
http://www.debian.org/users/

Nothg better than debian for that

If I knew I'd tell you, and as I mentioned in previous post, I don't know how to ask for the information. In fact, I think I've asked about how to ask for the info twice. Oh, and it IS Sunday, and where I live, we don't have school on the weekends, so I can't skip class to go count computers.

Anyway, perhaps a total conversion isn't realistic, but I can at least get them using Open Office over MS Office. Or to put Linux on some workstations instead of "upgrading" to Vista.

The goal is information.. Getting the right information into the right hands.

You don't want to appear like some sort of anti-Microsoft zealot when you talk to the people at school. you truly can't go in expecting a total conversion from the start. you need to do like the rest of us and integrate Linux into the environment a little at a time. Once the value is seen they can make decisions from there.. Get them to try it, start small like with a teacher in the computer lab. get them hooked and they will help spread the word.. That's why I suggested starting a LUG, to build a Linux community at the school.

as for Junior I dunno what his issue is, his posts in this thread have been far from constructive.. seems like a "the glass is half empty" sort of fellow. Don't be discouraged by him, move forward as you've been thinking, continue to ask questions and gather information. Draw on support from those around you that are willing to offer help.

There may be a little sense of negativity coming from this view point by others here, but I try not to have a narrow minded approach to any life situation. And I am not one to push someone into a large undertaking without looking at all the angles. There have been allot of angles presented here that should all be considered, but I won't candy coat the reality.
As for the It Audit:
Let me explain how I see it from a business prospective. If an individual wanted to open a Macdonald's restaurant (example we can all relate to), in a small community, the franchise would want to make sure the name is well represented and protected. The
franchise will most likely want to do a "market evaluation" before granting someone a part of the franchise to make sure the business would prosper in an effort to protect the name etc. A market evaluation, has allot of important information regarding average household income, average draw in the market (rural and surrounding communities that shop in that market), how many millionaires in the area, etc. etc. A market evaluation is something very few people see because of the oath to confidentiality before you are allowed to see it, in other words, if the franchise hears someone not involved with the evaluation talking about what is in it, the individual whom the audit was compiled for can be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Because the information in there can help other businesses that want to break into the market, allot of the information is not for the general public's ears, and that evaluation cost big bucks to put it together, so it is not something that gets shared.
An It audit is similar to a market evaluation for a large school, large schools do work together on certain fronts, but are in competition against each other for notoriety, standings, appearance. Because the better the school's name, the easier it is to get sizeable government grants, the easier it is to attract public offerings (private money). There is some confidentiality involved with It audits also, schools may share such information with other schools in the division, but not with the competition.
My point is simple.
Asking to see an It Audit is probably asking a little too much because of the level of confidentiality is involved.
Why do I think knowing what kind of school this is,is important?
A small country grade school has different needs, budget, income, and infrastructure compared to a large regional grade school, or a University/post graduate secondary schools, or a specialized school catering to more specialized needs. Just mentioning one of these with an estimated student population is a great amount of useful information, you don't need to actually count the amount of servers and client systems.
And as I said, I won't sugar coat the dream/thought, I don't think sending an individual to the front lines without knowing what can be waiting there for them constitutes "good guidance". The more you know about the stumbling blocks that may lay ahead, the easier it is to plan ahead to overcome them and follow through with your dream to the end. There's nothing worst than putting allot of effort into a dream only to end up getting squashed because of poor planning, such events have life altering consequences. Look at as many angles as possible, use the executive approach. Prepare.