LinuxQuestions.org
LinuxAnswers - the LQ Linux tutorial section.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General
User Name
Password
Linux - General This Linux forum is for general Linux questions and discussion.
If it is Linux Related and doesn't seem to fit in any other forum then this is the place.

Notices

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 02-27-2003, 12:49 PM   #1
bjb123
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 21

Rep: Reputation: 15
so long, and thanks for the help...


I've spent the last 3 months getting a usable Linux system set up at home. Its been a very frustrating experience, in many ways, and I wouldn't have got through it without lots of help from people on this forum. So a big thank you to you all.

But now I'm heading back to XP. Linux can do most of the basic things I need it to - surf the web, play mp3s and video clips etc - but its just too much hard work.

I'm not giving up on Linux - I'll try again in a year and see how much better things have become. I do believe it has the potential to be a good desktop, and would love to see the back of Microsoft, but I'm not ready to spend the extra time or lose hte functionality that XP gives me.

IMHO there are a few things that definitely have to be fixed before Linux will become a reasonable desktop OS for home users:

1. Hardware
What can I say? It took 3 months, many late nights, two distributions (RH& and mandy) and a lot of help from people on this forum to get the thing to work. XP did everything automatically in half an hour.

2. Software install/uninstall
I don't believe we have to stop compiling software from source, but we definitely need an app that tracks all the software on the system and lets us remove packages we no longer need.

3. Standards
Why can't we agree on a common look and feel? The Linux apps on my machine all look different (and most of them are ugly) and don't use consistent hot-keys for the same functions. Any why can't I cut and paste between them??

4. Help files and documentation
I know everyone hates writing documentation, but without decent help files you have no chance of winning new converts to use Linux on the desktop.

OK, that's my two-cents worth. Thanks again for the help. I hope Linux reaches the heights it can, and I'll be back again in 12 months to try again.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 12:53 PM   #2
Crashed_Again
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
Distribution: Ubuntu & Arch
Posts: 3,503

Rep: Reputation: 57
Have fun in la-la land! Call me when you get the blue screen of death. My box will still be running.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 01:05 PM   #3
bjb123
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 21

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 15
I've been running XP for 6 months now and haven't crashed the OS once. The odd app has crapped out, but that also happened on Linux (RH8 *and* Mandy). Compare that with the 3 months it took to get the hardware to work under Linux, versus half an hour on XP, and its an easy trade.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 01:06 PM   #4
chingasman
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Distribution: Mandrake 9.0 x2
Posts: 91

Rep: Reputation: 15
okay buddy. ov-wah or however you say it but i think you are trippin like a hippieeee.

In reference to number 4 the documentation is out there and relatively easy to find. i have enough documentation to build me a taj mahal out of paper.

with some decent number of years under my belt dealing with windows and shit i can only offer my first hand experience and knowledge when comparing the 2 OS's and that is you can't compare them. you can't windows is better or linux is better. its like apples and oranges. sure some people will fight to the death for there OS and whose the badest mutha fer on the block but quite frankly you can't compare them.

me being a newbie and all ... i love compiling, sure clickin on a setup.exe is easy and all and i can get all sorts of certs saying i am ms certified but who can't click on a exe if they just tried. linux isn't for the unwilling type of people. i can understand where you are coming from though. if i want to do something now, like yesterday; unless i am a experienced linux user windows here i go. some of these dudes tear it up and thus have no problem doing whatever it is in windows you couldn't do in linux. its not for the average or slightly above average computer user.

its for the geek - sorry trickykid (and others...) but yall are geeks, not that i am far behind i don't think but we aren't talking about me =] lol

Last edited by trickykid; 02-27-2003 at 01:24 PM.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 01:15 PM   #5
MasterC
Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Salt Lake City, UT - USA
Distribution: Gentoo ; LFS ; Kubuntu
Posts: 12,612

Rep: Reputation: 64
Re: so long, and thanks for the help...

Quote:
Originally posted by bjb123
I've spent the last 3 months getting a usable Linux system set up at home. Its been a very frustrating experience, in many ways, and I wouldn't have got through it without lots of help from people on this forum. So a big thank you to you all.

But now I'm heading back to XP. Linux can do most of the basic things I need it to - surf the web, play mp3s and video clips etc - but its just too much hard work.

I'm not giving up on Linux - I'll try again in a year and see how much better things have become. I do believe it has the potential to be a good desktop, and would love to see the back of Microsoft, but I'm not ready to spend the extra time or lose hte functionality that XP gives me.

IMHO there are a few things that definitely have to be fixed before Linux will become a reasonable desktop OS for home users:

1. Hardware
What can I say? It took 3 months, many late nights, two distributions (RH& and mandy) and a lot of help from people on this forum to get the thing to work. XP did everything automatically in half an hour.

2. Software install/uninstall
I don't believe we have to stop compiling software from source, but we definitely need an app that tracks all the software on the system and lets us remove packages we no longer need.

3. Standards
Why can't we agree on a common look and feel? The Linux apps on my machine all look different (and most of them are ugly) and don't use consistent hot-keys for the same functions. Any why can't I cut and paste between them??

4. Help files and documentation
I know everyone hates writing documentation, but without decent help files you have no chance of winning new converts to use Linux on the desktop.

OK, that's my two-cents worth. Thanks again for the help. I hope Linux reaches the heights it can, and I'll be back again in 12 months to try again.
Hi

Good Luck, and I hope you have better luck in a years time. Enjoy XP and if you ever have anymore linux questions, come on back you are always welcome

Cool
 
Old 02-27-2003, 01:26 PM   #6
trickykid
Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,133

Rep: Reputation: 197Reputation: 197
Feel free to come back and ask questions if you ever decide to try Linux ever again. It is truly amazing OS, it's no Windows but that is the whole point of it IMHO, its everything else it has to offer.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 02:34 PM   #7
kater
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Switzerland, Berne
Distribution: Slackware 9.0
Posts: 186

Rep: Reputation: 30
Think you're served better with Windows Just joking. We'd glad to see you again.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 02:39 PM   #8
Stephanie
LQ Addict
 
Registered: May 2001
Location: Arizona
Distribution: 9.2 Mandy 1.4 Gentoo 5.1 FreeBSD WinXP
Posts: 1,166

Rep: Reputation: 45
I understand the fustrations you went through. While it did not take me three months to get everything up and running, I can vouch that Linux is not as easy to use as Windows. You have to be willing to research and get dirty, and to be honest, the majority of people are not willing to do that. Hell, even I dont many times.

But if you ever want to try it again, let us know. Ignore the post by 'crashed_again'. He does not speak for all of us here.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 03:03 PM   #9
MrJoshua
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Houston Texas
Distribution: Debian / Gentoo / RHEL
Posts: 209

Rep: Reputation: 31
I am really not sure what the problem was, I have installed the OS on many different platforms, and I never seem to have a problem on any hardware, but cutting edge. Also there is a system for being able to add and remove things easily, if you are not into source code rpms and src.rpms are awesome. Also The documentation is 10x easier to find on linux stuff than M$ stuff. I can decide to do anything and type in the idea and find 10 howtos, and guides, or forums like this. Try doing that with real complicated 2000 Server administration, there is not really much. Any way good luck with M$ I hope you don't like your privacy, because they have no respect for the user at all.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 03:59 PM   #10
Electro
Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,042

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
bjb123, to make learning UNIX/LINUX easier. Try learning DOS. With a knowledge of DOS you will learn LINUX much easier. If you have MS-DOS lying around. Install it so that Windows XP doesn't get in the way of your learning experience.

For your CD Player problems. Try using XMMS.

To copy and paste in a terminal. You need to install a program. Usually it gets installed. I don't remember the name of the program though.

If you have used a none intergrated sound card like Soundblaster LIVE! for example, you won't have many problems. IMO, that sound card has many problems with both INTEL and AMD systems in any OS.

In Windows, run adaware and Spybot Search and Destroy to get rid of spyware. There tons in Windows XP. Also run memzip from systweak.com or a similar program to get rid of memory leaks.

Go to winguides.com and find information on how to increase your processor cache to 512 if you have a northwood P4 processor. Windows XP defaults the processor cache to 256.

IMO, Windows XP is the worst OS from MS. The User can not install a driver by their self with out Windows XP downloading it from Microsoft. This screws up the installing process if using manufacture's drivers. I used Win98 and using 98lite's patch to make it as smooth as LINUX. I will like to make it smoother but I don't have a Win95 CD.

BTW, I'm sorry that LINUX did not go well for you. I hope it will in the future.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 05:00 PM   #11
kater
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Switzerland, Berne
Distribution: Slackware 9.0
Posts: 186

Rep: Reputation: 30
To have a mouse in the console: gpm is the forgotten program

Btw: My DOS-experiences didn't helped a lot to learn GNU/Linux.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 05:37 PM   #12
chingasman
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Distribution: Mandrake 9.0 x2
Posts: 91

Rep: Reputation: 15
kater has a good point...... coming from a "ultimate windows" user for a lack of other words I can only say that every and any problem i had was a result of mentally defaulting to a "windows styled thinking" its a completely different fruit. you can't expect the same from apples as you would from oranges.... thats the only way to explain it.


as for the comparison of windows stuff and linux stuff each are very well documented and whether you know where to go for either depends if its easy to find. i have never had a problem with documentation with either. both kick ass in that respect.
i can sympathize with our buddy though... coming from a very similar "configuration" so to speak its more then annoying to try and install something and get rejected befcause you don't have the proper automake installed for instance. so now i gotta go get that and then that depends on something that ...... its one major thing that needs to be changed above anything else. I am serious about that.. having a complete package that you can download at work and install at home (cause lack of internet or whatever) and have it work. thats huge. windows has that going for it. when i download something for a win32 app whatever it is i can be assured that that file i download and take home with indeed for the most part be functioning without .......

you get the point

someone should come up with a rpm variation that has all that friggin dependent crap included. so that if you don't have it installed it will install it.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 07:39 PM   #13
Texicle
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Distribution: Slackware 10.0
Posts: 789

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
IMHO there are a few things that definitely have to be fixed before Linux will become a reasonable desktop OS for home users:

1. Hardware
What can I say? It took 3 months, many late nights, two distributions (RH& and mandy) and a lot of help from people on this forum to get the thing to work. XP did everything automatically in half an hour.
This is not the fault of Linux, contrary to popular belief. I've heard countless times that "Linux doesn't support such and such hardware" but it's the other way around. If the hardware makers would write drivers/modules that Linux could use, there would be no conflict. Unfortunately, most of them are written for MS--which is why I'll never buy another piece of hardware that hasn't been made compatible with Linux.

Quote:
2. Software install/uninstall
I don't believe we have to stop compiling software from source, but we definitely need an app that tracks all the software on the system and lets us remove packages we no longer need.
What's the name of the app in windows that tracks all the software on the system? As for something that allows you to view all your installed packages and remove the ones you don't need, I know that Slackware's pkgtool can do that. I can't speak for the other distros and what they've got though. You've only tried Mandrake and RedHat, you should look into others. Check out www.distrowatch.com for more distros than you can shake a stick at. You might just end up with the perfect one for you.

Quote:
3. Standards
Why can't we agree on a common look and feel? The Linux apps on my machine all look different (and most of them are ugly) and don't use consistent hot-keys for the same functions. Any why can't I cut and paste between them??
Why should anyone agree on ONE way a program should look or act? That's what's so appealing about Linux--you can choose how it looks or acts. Don't like the look--change the skin, don't like the hot-keys--change them, don't like either--make your own or get another one. I don't know which applications you're talking about so I can't answer why you can't cut and paste between them. In MS Windows, everything looks the same, acts the same, sounds the same, etc. How boring is that? Why not be able to have some differences in behavior and looks? I personally like the ability to choose. I also like how if something goes wrong, I know it's most likely my fault and not the shoddy software. I like how I can look at my errors to find something other than: "The memory referenced at 0x0e0000000b49f could not be read. Fatal exception error...." (huh?) I like how I can keep my PC up and running for weeks without any "Beginning dump of physical memory" (what is physical memory?) or "Dr. Watson" (who the hell is he?) or "A domain controller for your domain could not be contacted" (which one?) or "at least one service or driver failed during system start up" (is it a service or is it a driver, regardless, which one or ones are failing?) or "use event view to examine..." (event viewer isn't helpful at all, wtf?). Etc., etc., etc.

Quote:
4. Help files and documentation
I know everyone hates writing documentation, but without decent help files you have no chance of winning new converts to use Linux on the desktop.
Where did you look for help files? There's just about as many help files out there written by different people as there are Linux users. Some are written for gurus, some are for newbies, some are for those in between. However, how many help files can you find for "Fatal exception error" or "Beginning dump of physical memory"? How many of them tell you the first thing you should do is reboot--if this doesn't solve the problem, then try <insert inane ms-fix here>? I would think you wouldn't need many help files when the most common solution to all problems is "reboot".

Anyway, I didn't mean to rant on, but I do want you to see the other side of the coin. I know you gave it a 3 month try, and I applaud you for it--at least you gave more than one distro a chance and gave it more than one or two install attempts. Hopefully you will come back to Linux, but I also hope you give other distributions a chance before you leave for now--seriously, how many "distributions" of Windows have you used? I started with Win3.1 and have used each one from there. That's what, 8 or so versions? I've only used 2 distros so far from Linux (mandrake, and now Slackware) and I'm hooked. I can still try the remaining 100 or so distros of Linux, but I've found the one that best suits me on my second attempt. After my first 8 "distros" of Windows, I'm still not satisfied. Check out some other distributions, go to www.distrowatch.com and read up about them. Give them a shot, they're free anyway

Regardless, if you decide to come back to Linux, I'll be here to help you out. Hopefully in a year's time, I'll be able to help you even more.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 07:43 PM   #14
Texicle
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Distribution: Slackware 10.0
Posts: 789

Rep: Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally posted by chingasman
<snip>

someone should come up with a rpm variation that has all that friggin dependent crap included. so that if you don't have it installed it will install it.
Have you ever tried to install programs using a distro that doesn't use rpm's or tried installing from source? I've never had a dependency issue installing from source. I can't say that it's impossible to run into a dependency issue when installing from source, I just don't know anyone who has yet. The only problem I had was that my gcc and gcc++ wasn't installed and it wouldn't let me compile. After I got them installed again, everything goes smoothly.
 
Old 02-27-2003, 08:01 PM   #15
boreo
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Dominican Republic
Distribution: Slackware, FreeBSD, RedHat
Posts: 326

Rep: Reputation: 30
Is hard for a Windows user to switch to Linux, but onces you understand and use Linux a lot... When you get to use Windows you will feel stupid... I know I do... Well good luck and when you decide to come back, I guess that I'll be a "Guru" lol ( I think thats my dream) j/k.... (No blue screens here buddy or run time errors which I used to hate like crazy)
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
printf unsigned long long int? blackzone Programming 9 03-04-2008 12:41 PM
What do you think of all this? (long) kojo_chaos Linux - General 5 10-21-2005 01:14 PM
I've come a long way... linmix LinuxQuestions.org Member Success Stories 0 10-18-2005 05:13 PM
how long does it take? schatoor Linux From Scratch 1 04-14-2003 12:09 PM
How long can you??? cli_man General 19 03-31-2003 12:55 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 AM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration