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Old 06-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #16
onebuck
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Moved: Posts moved to a new thread since the content was Off Topic from OP and is more suitable in <General> and has been moved accordingly to help your thread/question/discussion get the exposure it deserves: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ms-4175466651/

Moved from: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...in-4175466479/

Last edited by onebuck; 06-19-2013 at 03:17 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 04:05 PM   #17
jefro
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I really think everyone suspects the other countries have been doing this and do it openly. You can't tell me that China is using their supercomputers to make better wonton's.

I still say so what if NSA is looking at metadata. There have been a number of criminals that have been caught before the advent of digital data by external investigations. Another Chicago crime figure was only caught on tax evasion, not the real crimes.

I'd doubt the US has read anyone's text data without a warrant. I know for sure many many people's data is being watched by criminals and criminal countries.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 05:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
I know for sure many many people's data is being watched by criminals and criminal countries.
I would count a country as a criminal country that secretly spies on its own citizens, records all their communication (no, they are not only recording metadata, they just wait to look at the content until you become suspicious for whatever reason) and then treat the people that uncover these violations of the citizens rights as traitors and criminals.
 
Old 06-19-2013, 08:56 PM   #19
jefro
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If a person in the USA is talking to terrorists, then I want to know. I think the government has a right and duty to watch these people. It is not criminal. I think it is clear that these people talking to terrorist aren't trying to sell girl scout cookies.

If the NSA wanted to stop common crime then they'd have way more work ahead. The boarders of the US are more vulnerable than a MS OS from 1995. Everything from faux shoes to drugs to people get in. Some of the people aren't welcome. Pretty sure if you try to kill us we don't like you.

Last edited by jefro; 06-19-2013 at 09:00 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 06:53 AM   #20
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
If a person in the USA is talking to terrorists, then I want to know. I think the government has a right and duty to watch these people.
Agreed. But that is not what they are doing. They watch you, they not only store your meta-data, they store the contents of your communication, regardless if you are a suspect or not. Maybe you will participate in a freedom march or protest against something you don't like about your government ten years in the future and then they will look at that content they have stored from you. That puts them in the same class of government like Eastern Germany was and China or North Korea is, which most people would think of as criminal countries.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 09:14 AM   #21
onebuck
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Hi,

Personally, I believe that NSA/IAD are in the game of collecting data/information to prevent harm to citizenry of the USA. Our leaders are trying to assure us by stating no one is being looked at without due cause or probable cause and that FISA warrants are legally obtained for such action. Information from private citizens are likely linked to foreign parties thus the collection/storing. What about other data being collected?

What Exactly Is the Secret FISA Court?;
Quote:
By Aditi Mukherji on June 19, 2013 9:01 AM
As NSA surveillance secrets make a a big splash in the headlines, you may have heard the terms “FISA” and “secret court,” but even as an attorney, don’t know much about them. Here’s a little more history on the most secretive court in America.
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) regulates the government’s conduct of intelligence surveillance inside the United States. In essence, it requires the government to obtain a warrant before being able to conduct surveillance on “agents of a foreign power” engaged in espionage or terrorism.
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) is the gatekeeper. By ruling yea or nay on warrant applications, it is supposed to ensure sure the government doesn’t abuse its surveillance powers.

Making the court infinitely more fascinating, the court operates in secret, reports NPR. The records and files of the cases are sealed and can’t be revealed even to people whose prosecutions are based on evidence obtained under FISA warrants. To date, there have only been two public rulings since the FISA was enacted.
I really appreciate having the "the most secretive court in America" allowing a government agency to watch citizens when necessary but not a 1984 totalitarian or authoritarian state.

We were founded as a free thinking and open community and do not wish to be looked at through a magnifier to control our actions from a political system for one ruling class. Why do you think 'Progressives' are attempting to run all over the Constitution since early twentieth century? They are now the controlling party within USA and will do anything to change things from the norm by ignoring the Constitution. So listening or watching everyone will be an open for the means to control a society.

As a Linux user that is why I posted this query to the forum.

EDIT: Note I did change the meaning to reflect the intent. I would prefer to harden Slackware than worry about someone Else's idea of security.

If SELinux is enabled/used in a Distribution then that is a Linux Distribution that I will not be using. Trust or paranoia, I will not succumb to someone's attempts to control my actions or even the threat of such so why would I use a tool developed by a Government agency wishing to do such. I am not powerless or am I sitting on my hands waiting to see what happens. Harden your system! End EDIT

Don't let NSA paranoia destroy your productivity
Quote:

Don’t let NSA paranoia destroy your productivity
Summary: There's an awful lot of paranoia going around these days. But the biggest threats to your privacy don't come from the NSA or the FBI. They come from private companies building massive databases to track your movements. Here's a sensible set of strategies to minimize privacy risks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Actually no, it isn't. It currently has rank 48: http://ecoggins.hubpages.com/hub/Fre...m-in-the-World
Someone already pointed out that the list is alphabetized and not a ranking point. I did read the criteria for Freedom-House and they stated;
Quote:
The 49 Most Free Countries in the WorldFrom their research Freedom House determined which countries of the world could be considered the most and least free in terms of political freedom and civil liberties. In all, 49 countries rated a "1" in both political freedom and civil liberties indicating the most free societies in the world, included the following nations:
Sad that there are only 49 'Most Free Countries'. One thing is that all these countries do have the freedom to control their future by citizen participation. Sadly here in the USA we have one of the lowest voter turnouts for both local and national voting as compared to other countries in the free world.


Happy Slacking!

Last edited by onebuck; 06-20-2013 at 11:29 AM. Reason: clarify SElLnux point
 
Old 06-20-2013, 09:58 AM   #22
H_TeXMeX_H
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SELinux isn't a Linux distribution, it is a feature of the kernel that can be enabled plus some user-space tools. Distros that use it by default are RHEL and Fedora Core. Other major distros support it as well.

There are other options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Security_Modules
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:01 AM   #23
tronayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Sadly here in the USA we have one of the lowest voter turnouts for both local and national voting as compared to other countries in the free world.
I was pleasantly surprised when I moved from large-population, large-city, large-suburbs (that would be Detroit before the population fell below 800,000) with low voter turnout to large-county, small-population (1,791 sq miles, 11,719 population) where county and township government is both active and well-represented by citizens taking part. Competent folks are elected to public office (they're my neighbors and I know them), do a good job of performing their responsibilities and paying attention to citizen input. 'Round these parts, voter turnout is something over 95% -- the other 5% either unable to get to the pols for health reasons or working out-of-county far enough to not be available on election day (yeah, there are absentee ballots, but you gotta know you're going to be absent and that isn't always possible to know, or some folks just don't want to vote -- which is allowed). This place truly is democracy in action and I do love it. You can walk up to or telephone the chairman of the county commissioners, talk about a problem, get an answer -- try that in New York, eh?

Last edited by tronayne; 06-20-2013 at 11:03 AM.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:15 AM   #24
onebuck
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
SELinux isn't a Linux distribution, it is a feature of the kernel that can be enabled plus some user-space tools. Distros that use it by default are RHEL and Fedora Core. Other major distros support it as well.

There are other options:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Security_Modules
Your right and my statement was not correct. I will change to reflect. I still feel that any government body involvement should be monitored openly by Linux users.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:25 AM   #25
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Someone already pointed out that the list is alphabetized and not a ranking point.
Sorry, although it is quite obvious I somehow missed that.
Nonetheless my point is the same, what is the difference between a country secretly spying on his citizens and a country secretly spying on his citizens with allegedly good intentions? What if the definitions for those good intentions change in the future (for example the USA becoming a theocracy, something that doesn't seem to be that improbable)?
Why are other countries that do exactly the same deemed to be criminal, but the USA not?
 
Old 06-20-2013, 11:58 AM   #26
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Sorry, although it is quite obvious I somehow missed that.
Nonetheless my point is the same, what is the difference between a country secretly spying on his citizens and a country secretly spying on his citizens with allegedly good intentions?
I think the difference is in that if the citizenry are aware of the action and if the miss-use is apparent then actions can be taken to rectify. The country that is monitoring secretly and is not monitored to maintain regulatory action then anything goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
What if the definitions for those good intentions change in the future (for example the USA becoming a theocracy, something that doesn't seem to be that improbable)?
I believe that is personal reflection, the USA will not become a theocracy. Maybe progressive socialistic instead of democratic. Our republic is weakening by the fragmenting of law by progressive minded parties not holding to our Constitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Why are other countries that do exactly the same deemed to be criminal, but the USA not?
Reflective!
We really do not have all the facts to come to a honest assessment for countries in question.

China for example does monitor/track/hack networks/systems here in the USA and in China they meter along with controlling their Internet. I do believe the USA does the same for intrusion, if not then we should to maintain awareness of the level of intrusions here by China or any other country. Cyber warfare is a new age industry that is making major players in the USA mega-bucks from the government. Capitalist at work!
 
Old 06-20-2013, 12:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
I still feel that any government body involvement should be monitored openly by Linux users.
Isn't that what distro's are meant to do?

While I understand most concerns regarding NSA, they're not the only ones involved with SE Linux.
http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/contrib.shtml

I guess it's mostly about trust (and I do trust people like Russell Coker).
 
Old 06-20-2013, 01:01 PM   #28
onebuck
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Isn't that what distro's are meant to do?

While I understand most concerns regarding NSA, they're not the only ones involved with SE Linux.
http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/contrib.shtml

I guess it's mostly about trust (and I do trust people like Russell Coker).
Not all Linux users directly participate with a particular Distribution development or testing. Some LQ Slackware Members do get involved in some way with Slackware.

I feel that a knowledgeable Slackware user can harden their own installs and/or provide means to other users to do same.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 02:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
Hi,

Not all Linux users directly participate with a particular Distribution development or testing. Some LQ Slackware Members do get involved in some way with Slackware.
Please don't use that "particular" involvement against me (i'd like to keep those things private as it it will always cause confusion). It never changed my view on Slackware and never will.


Quote:
Originally Posted by onebuck View Post
I feel that a knowledgeable Slackware user can harden their own installs and/or provide means to other users to do same.
I politely disagree here.
Not every "knowledgeable Slackware user" is capable to read code.

It's always about trust.

Last edited by jens; 06-20-2013 at 02:05 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #30
H_TeXMeX_H
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Everyone can read code, not everyone can understand it. In fact, I'm sure even developers of the code don't understand all of the code, just the part they are working on.

It requires some trust, but the less, the better. I would say it is more important to understand what the program does and what this means from a security point of view, not so much understanding the code.

As for Slackware, well let's just say there are distros for beginners and distros for more advanced users. Beginners don't understand too much about their system and even worse many don't want to either.

My system has a firewall, is updated regularly for security patches (including kernel), has no external open ports or unneeded services running, has strong passwords that are changed with every install, is scanned for rootkits and more rarely for viruses (nothing ever found), and I try to keep my system as free from proprietary apps as possible. I'm using flash now, but it's because I'm bored. I'll get rid of it pretty soon, because they're not gonna update versions and games are already requiring new versions and not many games come out anyway.

Last edited by H_TeXMeX_H; 06-20-2013 at 02:18 PM.
 
  


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