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What I don't understand is why Debian don't just shift to Epiphany as the default browser, and stop including Firefox / Iceweasel all together. Users could then install Firefox from mozilla.org if they want.
Because there is a LOT of popular demand for Firefox/Iceweasel, and this includes users of Debian on hardware platforms which mozilla.org doesn't support.
Debian developers simply chose the option which provided the most functionality to Debian users, while remaining true to the Debian project's social contract.
What's so important about Debian's social contract? Debian is an all-volunteer effort, with no centralized ruler. The only thing which keeps the Debian project going is its community of developers, and their combined sense of purpose. If they bend the rules for Firefox, what's next? What's the meaning of Debian's social contract then?
Debian's strategy for the long haul is to stick to its ideals, and this is what will pull them through. Other projects depend upon a central "benevolent dictator". That's fine...but if something happens to that benevolent dictator? That's not the strategy Debian is taking. They shifted away from the benevolent dictator model years ago, and are striving to establish something that's truly lasting.
I suspected that this might be a hornet's nest...
"if you don't like the distro, use something different".....I totally agree.
"Debian has the right to stand by their principles."......Also agree.
As a member of the community, I feel some responsibility to advocate the Open-Source alternative for new users and to help them get started. My point about Ice Weasel is that it just seems like sand in the gears for a new user of Linux walking in cold. OF COURSE you can go into about:config and change the name so that Google toolbar will work, but Jack or Jill Newcomer will get highly annoyed with having to do that.
In re all the comments about how we mix proprietary and open-source code, remember that the Debian Issue with Firefox was just the trademarked Logo. As I understand it, the Mozilla policy is simply that you can't use Firefox without including the logo (That's just a form of attribution). There's no issue of "contaminating" Debian with proprietary code, and there is no issue with the cost of something proprietary.
If the use of a trademarked logo violates Debian policy, then how about the trademarked name...."Linux"?!!!
If the use of a trademarked logo violates Debian policy, then how about the trademarked name...."Linux"?!!!
I just went back and re-read the Debian polices...There is no mention of copyrights or trademarks. Yet the official reason for not using the FF logo is that "it's copyright is not free".
Be that as it may - there is a totally different issue besides philosophy involved:
Debian is used by schools and other institutions that use the only the free repos and rely on those are being 100% free because they might be open to lawsuits from all possible sides otherwise.
Nobody is going to go after anyone putting questionable apps on a private box but if organisations that are sueable (as in money is to be made) get involved the story changes.
Besides it seems that Mozilla is being pretty hardheaded about the thing not Debian - after all they are a 50 million $$ a year business now.
Last edited by crashmeister; 06-03-2007 at 11:25 AM.
The main (and practical) reason for a for is that Debian were putting in bug fixes to make it work with Debian and Mozilla weren't releasing them very quickly. Which is fair enough since it will be them that take the flak if they fail. Between that and the logo and name issue, the better way to make it compatible with Debian's aim was to fork it and rename/rebadge it.
There were lots of issues that lead to the (semi)fork. Another issue was Mozilla's insistance that anything named Firefox be kept up-to-date. You can't have a "Firefox" in current release that's over a year old. Since Debian Stable has an indeterminately long release cycle, Debian couldn't guarantee that Firefox in the Stable release would be that current.
The real issue was that Mozilla got new management, and was no longer willing to overlook Debian's unusual situation. The trademark issue was a flashpoint, but far from the only consideration.
Debian's Social Contract periodically has to have guideposts set, and that issue turned out to be one. IMO, if you use Debian, you should use Iceweasel, but that's another subject. Personally, I have no issues whatsoever with Fireweasel. I've switched to Epiphany, which, IMO, is to Firefox as Firefox is to IE ... just better, and most emphatically ... free.
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